Neuromancer 30 Years Old This Month

[Michael Colton]

The novel holds up too in the characters portrayed living lives with almost no meaning - shafted by corporations, corruption etc. Bruce Sterling also worked well with this theme. We see this meaninglessness much more these days than when the book was first published. Vacuity has become a lifestyle choice for some.

I might add that Apple computers are superior not because of the surface and style, but because they work a million times better than PCs.

I agree with the characters and themes holding up. As Gibson described it, these are people without family that in some way create their own in the meaninglessness world they find themselves. This is perhaps an even more relevant theme today than it was in the 1980s - despite the fact that the 'punk' aesthetic is no longer as relevant.

And as far as personal computers go, I own both and I have to admit I have had zero issues with my PC after upgrading to Windows 8.

 

[Gramm838]

I wonder what a 17-year old reading Necromancer for the first time now would think of it...the Sprawl Trilogy books are great but are very much books of their time, looking forward to a world that may be around us now, but most of us are so stuck in the routine of our lives that we don't see these background characters anyway.

Interesting of course that the central idea of Virtual Light preempts Google Glass by a long way...

 

[Michael Colton]

I wonder what a 17-year old reading Necromancer for the first time now would think of it...

Gibson has a nice foreword to one of the more recent editions of Neuromancer where he talks about that very thing. An interesting short read, worth another edition for me.

 

[clovis-man]

Recognition from unexpected sources: Gibson and Neuromancer were a Jeopardy question this past week.

 

[Kzinti]

Neuromancer was the inspiration for the Matrix. You ask me, Neuromancer was ten tmes better.

 

[Vince W]

Neuromancer was the inspiration for the Matrix. You ask me, Neuromancer was ten tmes better.

Only 10? I think you need to increase that estimation by a few orders of magnitude.

 

[Michael Colton]

Considering that it was not a direct book-to-film envisioning, it is rather difficult or perhaps impossible to compare the two. The primary element that the Matrix relied upon was mythology and religious undertones rather than cyberpunk or even science fiction, in my opinion. The science fiction was merely a setting, not the primary thrust of the film. It is part of why I was never particularly fond of it.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Considering that it was not a direct book-to-film envisioning, it is rather difficult or perhaps impossible to compare the two. The primary element that the Matrix relied upon was mythology and religious undertones rather than cyberpunk or even science fiction, in my opinion. The science fiction was merely a setting, not the primary thrust of the film. It is part of why I was never particularly fond of it.

Yeah, I would regard The Matrix more as techno-fantasy than science fiction but I think it was great. I considered the philosophy/theology thought provoking which I expect from the best science fiction though The Matrix tended to throw out the science.

psik

 

[Kzinti]

Only 10? I think you need to increase that estimation by a few orders of magnitude.

LOL, yeah I'd agree with you there. I hated the Matrix because of the awful writing and lack of cleverness. Neuromancer was the real deal.

I'd have to disagree with people who say the Matrix was unique. Stealing someone's idea, in m book, is a serious offense, even if you modify it. I don't care what the courts say, I get angry when I see this sort of thing.

 

[Gramm838]

Wasn't the inspiration for the Matrix the "Ghost in the Shell" anime?

 

[Michael Colton]

In my opinion, it is safe to say the inspiration was mythology and religion. The cyberpunk themes were mere trappings. Also, GITS was largely inspired by Gibson in the first place. So while it is true that the Wachowski siblings were more directly influenced by GITS, it is in a sense derivation once removed.

 

[Kzinti]

Wasn't the inspiration for the Matrix the "Ghost in the Shell" anime?

The MAtrix stole from everything. I saw anime after watching the Matrix and anime was far superior. Ghost In The Shell wasn't even the best anime, and it was still better than the Matrix.

My favorite part of Ghost In The Shell was when Bato pulls out his gun with that trench coat whipping in the wind.

 

[Michael Colton]

Stealing is a too harsh of a term. It was derivative and influenced, but it was not straight theft. This is not Lion King we are talking about.

 

[Kzinti]

Stealing is a too harsh of a term. It was derivative and influenced, but it was not straight theft. This is not Lion King we are talking about.

I respectfully disagree. I would never steal an idea even if it was just slightly similar. I have a book that has an idea that most people consider generic, but because it was featured in Godzilla, I refuse to publish the book. It's unfortunate that I only discovered this fact after I wrote the book.

 

[Michael Colton]

I was saying that it was not stealing. Not that it was okay to steal.

 

[J-Sun]

it is in a sense derivation once removed.

That's a nice way to say "doubly derivative".

I would never steal an idea even if it was just slightly similar.

Then you'll probably never publish anything.

To me, it's like Star Wars - not qualitatively, but in the sense that people yell about how it's stolen but it's stolen in a generic fairy tale sense or generic cyberpunk furniture sense. It's not quite to the point of T2 which is stolen directly from a van Vogt story. But, with all three movies, while I'm with MC on the stealing is bayud, m'kay (see, I just stole something - ironic, huh?) I still say they're all cool movies. If someone brings a lawsuit and they win then they get paid. If not, it's all good. No, it's not the way to do things and they should credit and pay up front but sometimes even the creators (thieves) don't know where it's all coming from. "There's nothing new under the sun" and everything's all stolen from Homer anyway. So just enjoy the show and let the makers' consciences and the legal system take care of the rest unless you feel compelled to take it upon yourself to boycott the movie personally. But the derivative-ness is not itself a sign of goodness or badness as a movie.

I might add that Apple computers are superior not because of the surface and style, but because they work a million times better than PCs.

I was going to let this go but it occurs to me that it's a great opportunity to link to one of my favorite pieces of writing on the subject by probably the biggest second generation cyberpunk (even though I don't seem to like the guy's fiction or some of the ultimate thrust of this piece). I drive a proletarian po' folks PC but it's the tank version. Stephenson is an ex-Apple guy (at least at the time of this writing, long long ago in 1999 - exactly halfway back to Neuromancer).

"In the Beginning was the Command Line" by Neal Stephenson

To update that, these days, Macs run with the free BSD under the hood and Mac users are paying zillions of bucks for commodity hardware, a GUI, and marketing. BSD is derived from genuine Unix code historically, but has rewritten it all (doubly derivative) while Linux is coded from scratch to be another Unix work-alike but they're both free, open source *nix. In Apple, BSD is the Apple and "the Mac" is just the candy covering.

(I'm sort of kidding - I mean, I don't like Macs or Windows but I don't like Linux either - I just dislike it by far the least. And I'm not a holy warrior, though I'll happily nudge folks into trying Linux if they want. But if Macs or Windows make you happy, we're all happy. It's a cool article, though, regardless.)

 

[Michael Colton]

But the derivative-ness is not itself a sign of goodness or badness as a movie.

To me this is the fundamental point that people seem to miss quite a bit. Derivation can be done horribly in a stale, cookie cutter and glue sort of way (disclaimer: do not put glue on your cookies), but it can also be done with homage to one's influences in an interesting way. And as you mentioned, it is often done unconsciously.

And thanks for sharing the link, I always enjoy reading fiction authors on topics other than their work. Not sure why, but I am always curious as to what sort of a person has created these worlds and narratives I find interesting.

 

[J-Sun]

Derivation can be done horribly in a stale, cookie cutter and glue sort of way (disclaimer: do not put glue on your cookies), but it can also be done with homage to one's influences in an interesting way.

Exactly - well put.

And thanks for sharing the link, I always enjoy reading fiction authors on topics other than their work. Not sure why, but I am always curious as to what sort of a person has created these worlds and narratives I find interesting.

You're welcome! You'll definitely get an impression of him from that very wide-ranging and partly personal piece.

 

[Michael Colton]

You're welcome! You'll definitely get an impression of him from that very wide-ranging and partly personal piece.

I have tried to get into his work in the past, but oddly have never stuck it out. Enough people have told me I would like his work if I 'got into it' that it is probably true, but it just has not happened yet.

 

[J-Sun]

I have tried to get into his work in the past, but oddly have never stuck it out. Enough people have told me I would like his work if I 'got into it' that it is probably true, but it just has not happened yet.

Well, like I say, I can't get into it, either - I think all I've read was The Diamond Age and I disliked it enough that it made me unwilling to try more - and some of why is also present in the essay. I gather Snow Crash would have been a better place to start but I'd have still run into The Diamond Age.