Bleh, description

[Jo Zebedee]

I still struggle with description. That'll go on my grave. How's this: too much, too little, clear?



Night had fallen over the city. The wide streets close to the palace, framed by streetlights, led to the narrow lanes of the old city, where irregular lights traced the warrens of entries. The tribal enclave in the centre was dark, hidden behind walls, the glow from the great church the only thing showing there was anything in that section of the city.

He took a moment, breathing in the air from the desert, sweeter in the evening and as cold as the day was hot. A wave of something – not nostalgia, he hated the city, but familiarity -- swept over him. He’d spent ten years in this city, moulding it. The fact the alleys in the centre of the city had lights in the streets was down to him; when he’d come to power that part of the city had been so poverty-stricken its residents had been left to fester in their dark houses and only allowed to live if they didn’t offend the rich residents of the central boulevards.

Beside him, hunkered in the bay window of an old church, Simone stood watch. He lifted his night-vision scope, focusing on the centre of the city, close to the palace. Even this late the streets were bustling, the blazing lights of the strip of bars and restaurants standing out against the dark gardens. He zoomed in on the palace, taking in the white walls, stark against the night sky: unchanged, unchanging, eternal. Gods, he hated the place.

 

[barrett1987]

The description is clear and well used. I had no issue reading it and in fact enjoyed it.

However, (Isn't there always a however or a but?)

The fact the alleys in the centre of the city had lights in the streets was down to him; when he’d come to power that part of the city had been so poverty-stricken its residents had been left to fester in their dark houses and only allowed to live if they didn’t offend the rich residents of the central boulevards.

Didn't read as smooth as the rest of the piece. Is the information needed? if yes then consider rewriting it. I don't have the experience or ability to offer examples but this section felt...off. Maybe one of the others will know why.

the night sky: unchanged, unchanging, eternal. the night sky, unchanged and eternal.
That's a style choice I guess but i didn't like that line.


Just opinions but overall the piece read well. Very vivid and i wished i had this level of descriptive ability.

 

[hopewrites]

It reads fine to me. I do question night-goggles when there is so much light. If you wanted it tighter you could start with his night vision and mention how the lights give it trouble which would set him thinking that he was to blame for his trouble as he was the one that lit up the squallor he was squinting across to see -whatever he is looking for.

But as I said. It reads fine as is.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I agree with the others. I liked it.

It doesn't just describe how things look, it reveals much about how things are, and how they came to be that way (therefore revealing something about the observer).

That's a lot for three paragraphs without making it look like an infodump, and I think you carry it off very well.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

The description is clear and well used. I had no issue reading it and in fact enjoyed it.

Yay! Stop there...?

However, (Isn't there always a however or a but?)

Darn.

The fact the alleys in the centre of the city had lights in the streets was down to him; when he’d come to power that part of the city had been so poverty-stricken its residents had been left to fester in their dark houses and only allowed to live if they didn’t offend the rich residents of the central boulevards.

Didn't read as smooth as the rest of the piece. Is the information needed? if yes then consider rewriting it. I don't have the experience or ability to offer examples but this section felt...off. Maybe one of the others will know why.

This might be a context one. It's also a tiny info dump I'll try to smooth a little. I also hate info dumps.

the night sky: unchanged, unchanging, eternal. the night sky, unchanged and eternal.

That's a style choice I guess but i didn't like that line.

Oh, darn, I like that line. Bah.

Just opinions but overall the piece read well. Very vivid and i wished i had this level of descriptive ability.

Thanks. It's been painful dragging it to any level. Many, many, many hours of horror.

It reads fine to me. I do question night-goggles when there is so much light. If you wanted it tighter you could start with his night vision and mention how the lights give it trouble which would set him thinking that he was to blame for his trouble as he was the one that lit up the squallor he was squinting across to see -whatever he is looking for.

But as I said. It reads fine as is.

I've dropped night scopes nearly everywhere and can easily scratch them again. thanks!

Edit - thanks, Teresa: I was worried I'd crammed too much in and overdone it, and I'm using a fair few of these segments at the moment. Relief...

 

[Ursa major]

In my usual way, I ended up trying to edit the text. I started with the second paragraph, trying to making it more positive**. But when I looked back at the first paragraph, my changes meant it no longer fitted. And then (not driven by my ego, promise) I began to wonder whether it had fitted before my changes.

The thing is, it's unclear where the lights are -- are alleys the same as narrow lanes? why are ones mentioned in one paragraph and the others in another? why is the lighting in the narrow lanes irregular? is the lighting only at the entries? but then why are there lights in the alleys? -- which rather undermines the description. I'm sure it's all clear in your mind's eye, but this reader is confused. (Of course, if I hadn't started picking at the text, I might not have noticed. )


(Note: I'm picking at details, not the overall feel of the paragraphs, which is fine.)


** -

He took a moment to breathe in the air from the desert, sweeter in the evening, and as cold as the day was hot. A wave of something swept over him. Not nostalgia – he hated the city – but familiarity. He’d spent ten years in this city, moulding it, making it better. When he’d come to power that part of the city had been so poverty-stricken its residents had been left to fester in their dark houses and only allowed to live if they didn’t offend the rich residents of the central boulevards. He’d had lighting installed in the alleys in the centre of the city.

 

[tinkerdan]

When I read, too much description becomes like blah blah blah and I know that its something that I do and not the writing but I usually look for the nearest clearest drain and hope it all washes away down there so I can get to the story.

I'm sorry to say that my tiny brain sees that first paragraph as unnecessary info dump and not because its unnecessary or because it's info dump, but because its up on the top like that. I usually blow all that foam off the beer so if its important to the whole experience of drinking the beer I loose out.

What I usually end up doing is trying to see how I can drop the first paragraph into places in the second one which is where the story is.

Again this is just me and I actually have thus far been able to restrain myself from trying to merge them so it might or might not be something you want to look at.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Ursa and Tinker, ty.

 

[ctg]

Night had fallen over the city. The wide streets close to the palace, framed by streetlights, led to the narrow lanes of the old city, where irregular lights traced the warrens of entries. The tribal enclave in the centre was dark, hidden behind walls, the glow from the great church the only thing showing there was anything in that section of the city.
​

"The glow from great church showed" there was nothing there. Man, er, darling sorry but that sentence is so confusing. I recommend you tinkering with it a bit. Cut it or make it clearer.

He took a moment, breathing in the air from the desert. It smelled sweeter in the evening and refreshingly cold. And it brought a wave of something – not nostalgia, he hated the city, but familiarity -- sweeping over him. He’d spent ten years in this city, moulding it, shaping it against his will. And the fact was the alleys in the centre of the city wouldn't had lights if it not had been in the streets was down to him. And those poverty-strinken citizens would still be festering in darkness if Empress(?) had remained in power through generous contributions(?) of the rich living in the central boulevards.
​

Beside him, hunkering in the bay window of an old church, Simone stood watch. He lifted his night-vision scope, focusing on the centre of the city, close to the palace. Even this late the streets were bustling, the blazing lights of the strip of bars and restaurants standing out against the dark gardens. He zoomed in on the palace, taking in the white walls, stark against the night sky: unchanged, unchanging, eternal. Gods, he hated the place.


​

The middle was confusing. Hence lot of blue line. But last bit was well done.

 

[Erin99]

I am in love with that "stark against the night sky: unchanged, unchanging, eternal". It's the kind of thing I write. And yes, I love all the description. You say so much in an engaging way. However, I do have a few tiny suggestion that you can use or lose:


Night had fallen over the city. The wide streets close to the palace, framed by streetlights, led to the narrow lanes of the old city, where irregular lights traced the warrens of entries [Something about the "warrenS of entrieS" isn't sitting right with me. Any chance you could change that to "warren entries"? Dictionary.com says "warren" means: "a building or area containing many tenants in limited or crowded quarters.", so you should get away with it...]. The tribal enclave in the centre was dark, hidden behind walls, the glow from the great church the only thing showing there was anything in that section of the city [I find the two -ing very clunky in a sentence so close together. Tbh, when I read the end of the line, it wasn't half as elegant as the other sentences, which are beautiful. I would suggest something like, "...the glow of the church the only givaway that anything lay in that section of the city"].

He took a moment, breathing in the air from the desert, sweeter in the evening and as cold as the day was hot. A wave of something – not nostalgia, he hated the city, but familiarity -- swept over him. He’d spent ten years in this city, moulding it. The fact the alleys in the centre of the city had lights in the streets was down to him; when he’d come to power that part of the city had been so poverty-stricken its residents had been left to fester in their dark houses and only allowed to live if they didn’t offend the rich residents of the central boulevards. [Again, this can be shaved a wee bit t remove clunkiness and wordiness: "The alleys in the centre of the city had streetlights because of him; when he’d come to power, that part of the city had been so poverty-stricken its residents had been left to fester in dark houses, only allowed to live if they didn’t offend the rich residents of the central boulevards"]

Beside him, hunkered in the bay window of an old church, Simone stood watch. He lifted his night-vision scope, focusing on the centre of the city, close to the palace. Even this late the streets were bustling, the blazing lights of the strip of bars and restaurants standing out against the dark gardens [Ditto: "Even this late, streets were bustling, the strip of restaurants and bars blazing against the night-cloaked gardens" - I also said "night-cloaked" rather than repeat "dark" a third time in the excerpt, and I reordered "strip and restaurant" because I kept reading it as "strip bars" every time That's likely just me being a doofus, though.]. He zoomed in on the palace, taking in the [you could just say: "...zoomed in on the palace, its white walls stark against the starry sky..." Also, yes, I changed "night" to starry, to vary things up a bit.] white walls, stark against the night sky: unchanged, unchanging, eternal. Gods, he hated the place. [WONDERFUL!!!]


Hope this helps any. I loved it and would like to suggest, in the politest possible way, you shut up about how bad you are at description. The last two descriptions I've seen from you here have been gorgeous. In fact, I'm going to be a rebel and say you should write more, heh.

 

[alchemate]

He’d spent ten years in this city, moulding it. The fact the alleys in the centre of the city had lights in the streets was down to him; when he’d come to power that part of the city had been so poverty-stricken its residents had been left to fester in their dark houses and only allowed to live if they didn’t offend the rich residents of the central boulevard.

The description is good. But I would like to know more about this MC as you're describing the city. How did he mould the city? Saying he brought power and streetlights to the city wasn't enough for me.

Your story-world description is greart, but I'd like more character description and pieces of backstory woven in.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Hope this helps any. I loved it and would like to suggest, in the politest possible way, you shut up about how bad you are at description. The last two descriptions I've seen from you here have been gorgeous. In fact, I'm going to be a rebel and say you should write more, heh.

Suggestions are great, thank you. Message received and understood.

The description is good. But I would like to know more about this MC as you're describing the city. How did he mould the city? Saying he brought power and streetlights to the city wasn't enough for me.

Your story-world description is greart, but I'd like more character description and pieces of backstory woven in.

It's from the last third of the last book of a trilogy, so the reader should know the wider context. Thank you for the crit!

 

[alchemate]

I see. What's the name of the trilogy? I might want to check it out.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I see. What's the name of the trilogy? I might want to check it out.

That's made my day, ty. It isn't published as yet (although I live in hope), but it's called The Abendau Trilogy.

 

[TitaniumTi]

I love stories in which "place" is as important a protagonist as - well - the protagonists, so rather than "bleh, description", I say, "give me more description."

I did have trouble feeling a sense of place, I think partly because the protagonist is experiencing the city at a distance, seemingly too far away to hear, smell or touch the city. Timing was another factor; his interaction with the city, moulding it, has happened in the past. This further distances his experience from the city.

The geography also confused me, between the poverty-stricken alleys in the centre of the city, the central boulevards and the bustling streets of the centre of the city, close to the palace.

In summary, I enjoyed the prose (beautiful!) but could not quite connect to the place. I presume that this is only a short excerpt from a longer WIP, so I might well gain a greater sense of place from the complete work.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Thanks Titanium Ti, a wee bit of work on placement, then.

 

[thaddeus6th]

Now I have an image of your gravestone, describing your coffin in immense detail, with crossings out and suggestions in the margin...

Anyway, time to flog your work with the whip of constructive criticism!:

The wide streets close to the palace, framed by streetlights, led to the narrow lanes of the old city, where irregular lights traced the warrens of entries. -
could you draw a comparison between the bright lights (maybe golden, if you felt it'd fit) of wealthy areas, and the bleakness/darkness of poverty?

The tribal enclave in the centre was dark, hidden behind walls, the glow from the great church the only thing showing there was anything in that section of the city. -
depending how you go with the previous sentence you could have a dark heart illuminated only the great church's glow, which would be true geographically as well as having the moral aspect.

– not nostalgia, he hated the city, but familiarity --
Single or double's fine, but should be consistent.

had been left to fester in their dark houses -
mushroom reference? Kept in the dark and fed **** [I forget the precise limits of the naughty word banning, so I'm playing it safe]

on the centre of the city -
probably change 'centre' to streets/avenues etc, as there have been quite a lot of references to the centre.

standing out against the dark gardens -
just a style point, could make it a ribbon (or square etc) of gold in the darkness

 

[Phyrebrat]

Night had fallen over the city. The wide streets close to the palace, framed by streetlights, led to the narrow lanes of the old city, where irregular lights traced the warrens of entries. The tribal enclave in the centre was dark, hidden behind walls, the glow from the great church the only thing showing there was anything in that section of the city. (maybe I read it 'wrong' but the repeat of city jumped out at me - if you notice it, too, would shortening the first line to simply 'Night had fallen.' work?)

He took a moment, breathing in the air from the desert, sweeter in the evening and as cold as the day was hot (I truly believe that evening air is definitely sweeter than day air! It's almost like a liquid - especially in hot climates, so I loved this). A wave of something – not nostalgia, he hated the city, but familiarity -- swept over him (I really liked this, too. It's a nice insight in itself, but it also serves a nice purpose in chopping up the description. Nice trick). He’d spent ten years in this city, moulding it. The fact the alleys in the centre of the city had lights in the streets was down to him; when he’d come to power that part of the city had been so poverty-stricken its residents had been left to fester in their dark houses and only allowed to live if they didn’t offend the rich residents of the central boulevards.

Beside him, hunkered in the bay window of an old church, Simone stood watch. He lifted his night-vision scope, focusing on the centre of the city, close to the palace. Even this late the streets were bustling, the blazing lights of the strip of bars and restaurants standing out against the dark gardens. He zoomed in on the palace, taking in the white walls, stark against the night sky: unchanged, unchanging, eternal. Gods, he hated the place.

It's perfectly clear, yes, and I love the fact you're tackling your dreaded descriptophobia. As Teresa says, you've done more than describe how something looks, but generated an integrated picture of how they fit together. In the first paragraph, you have some very evocative words which work well to suggest a tone (ahhhhh tone ); tribal enclave, warren, great church.

It has quite an ecclesiastical feel to it. I guess the number of churches mentioned and words like glow and enclave support that. But I like the way it's offset with the bit about the poverty stricken populace and the posho's uncharitable implied disdain of them, and then in the final para, it is completely turned on its head with the description that suggests vice and indulgence.

pH

 

[JoanDrake]

I can't improve on what Teresa said. I've always felt that good description is the soul of good writing but since you see so little of it many people have turned against it entirely. Pity if they do, they'll miss good stuff like this

 

[Phyrebrat]

I can't improve on what Teresa said. I've always felt that good description is the soul of good writing but since you see so little of it many people have turned against it entirely. Pity if they do, they'll miss good stuff like this

Seconded!

(and I also think this applies - to a certain extent - to the hook-me-within-the-first-three-syllables-or-I'm-outta-here-brigade . How many pages into It does it take before Georgie Denbrough gets killed by Pennywise; 20,30,50?)

pH