4.14: The Walking Dead - The Grove
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ctg
weaver of the unseen
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*** SPOILERS ***
"Maybe” was written by Allan Flynn and Frank Madden back in the nineteen thirties and it came out at 1935. It reached second spot in the charts and back then people most probably didn't think it as creepy as it can sound now, especially if listen the lyrics and watch a zombie chasing a girl in the yard.
But in the same you cannot stop noticing how playfully she's doing it. It is almost as if she wants to get caught and burst into giggles as the zombie's dead cold fingers reach towards her throat. And you know it is so wrong.
In her head everything's fine and what is happening is just a normal thing. A thing that doesn't bother her and why should it, because the dead aren't dead. They are just changed.
That used to be Hershel way of thinking back in the days, when he still had a barn full of dead people. He thought he could find a way to change them. Possibly even bring them back so that he could have a cold drink with his wife in deck chair and watch how his girls sprout out babies to replenish those who got wasted in the course of epidemic.
Well, we know that's not going to happen, cos the chances for that to happen are as remote as you falling in love under the blue moon and living rest of your life in a blissful happiness. And I think that is what Carol realised, when she came back with Tyreese and saw Lizzie standing in the yard with her hands covered in blood.
She realised that the sanctuary they had found in the grove had been an illusion. It had been exactly same kind of mirage as her wishful thinking of finding Sophia alive. It just wasn't going to happen. And the only thing left to do was to put a bullet in Lizzie's head and tell the man next to her what really happened at the Prison.
How Tyreese took it was not like how I imagined it would had gone down; as there's so much pain in his chest. Pain, that's not going to go away by forgiving the wrongdoer even though that's the right thing to do. But then again that big bear knows that he's not going to survive in the world full of dead people and raise up a kid that's not even his own. So, there was no other choice but take it as it is and move on just like she proposed.
The Terminus is waiting and end of the tracks are coming close as there are only two episodes left in the season. And therefore I'd like to raise a glass to Mr Gimble, Mr Kirkman, the cast and AMC for churning out harrowing and thought provoking episodes season after another.
But in the same you cannot stop noticing how playfully she's doing it. It is almost as if she wants to get caught and burst into giggles as the zombie's dead cold fingers reach towards her throat. And you know it is so wrong.
In her head everything's fine and what is happening is just a normal thing. A thing that doesn't bother her and why should it, because the dead aren't dead. They are just changed.
That used to be Hershel way of thinking back in the days, when he still had a barn full of dead people. He thought he could find a way to change them. Possibly even bring them back so that he could have a cold drink with his wife in deck chair and watch how his girls sprout out babies to replenish those who got wasted in the course of epidemic.
Well, we know that's not going to happen, cos the chances for that to happen are as remote as you falling in love under the blue moon and living rest of your life in a blissful happiness. And I think that is what Carol realised, when she came back with Tyreese and saw Lizzie standing in the yard with her hands covered in blood.
She realised that the sanctuary they had found in the grove had been an illusion. It had been exactly same kind of mirage as her wishful thinking of finding Sophia alive. It just wasn't going to happen. And the only thing left to do was to put a bullet in Lizzie's head and tell the man next to her what really happened at the Prison.
How Tyreese took it was not like how I imagined it would had gone down; as there's so much pain in his chest. Pain, that's not going to go away by forgiving the wrongdoer even though that's the right thing to do. But then again that big bear knows that he's not going to survive in the world full of dead people and raise up a kid that's not even his own. So, there was no other choice but take it as it is and move on just like she proposed.
The Terminus is waiting and end of the tracks are coming close as there are only two episodes left in the season. And therefore I'd like to raise a glass to Mr Gimble, Mr Kirkman, the cast and AMC for churning out harrowing and thought provoking episodes season after another.
Lenny
Press "X" to admire hat
Holy damn that was dark.
I've been enjoying the almost character studies, and long-overdue character development, in the recent episodes, and I've thought that they've pretty much all been done well (particularly in comparison to the first half of the series)... but man, this was on a totally different level. Gimple took the group that I imagine most people care least about, and built them up to not just one, but two of the most gut-wrenchingly devastating scenes of the entire show.
A lot of the recent character development has been broken characters who have lost their humanity coming back from the brink and starting to feel again - Rick and Carl, the Governor, Michonne, Beth, Daryl, and I think I'll throw Tara in. We also saw that, in this episode, of Carol (who finally did something that needed to be done that was so terrible it shattered her steely shell), and Tyreese (who forgave someone who coldly murdered the woman he was crushing on).
In stark contrast to all of this, however, was poor little Lizzie. Aye, she was broken and losing her humanity, but sometimes there's nothing to be done. Sometimes a person just cannot come back from the brink. What makes it all the more tragic is that sometimes, people break because they just don't understand what's happening.
Whilst I'm somewhat surprised that TWD would shy away from L'il Asskicker being nommed but not the murder of two young children, this episode truly fulfills the promise of TWD being about the real walking dead, not the zombies. The zombies aren't the threat in this world, it's the any means necessary survival. It wasn't pretty, but hats off to the TWD team for having the balls to put us in such a "What would you do?" situation, and for having the skills to pull it off so perfectly.
I've been enjoying the almost character studies, and long-overdue character development, in the recent episodes, and I've thought that they've pretty much all been done well (particularly in comparison to the first half of the series)... but man, this was on a totally different level. Gimple took the group that I imagine most people care least about, and built them up to not just one, but two of the most gut-wrenchingly devastating scenes of the entire show.
A lot of the recent character development has been broken characters who have lost their humanity coming back from the brink and starting to feel again - Rick and Carl, the Governor, Michonne, Beth, Daryl, and I think I'll throw Tara in. We also saw that, in this episode, of Carol (who finally did something that needed to be done that was so terrible it shattered her steely shell), and Tyreese (who forgave someone who coldly murdered the woman he was crushing on).
In stark contrast to all of this, however, was poor little Lizzie. Aye, she was broken and losing her humanity, but sometimes there's nothing to be done. Sometimes a person just cannot come back from the brink. What makes it all the more tragic is that sometimes, people break because they just don't understand what's happening.
Whilst I'm somewhat surprised that TWD would shy away from L'il Asskicker being nommed but not the murder of two young children, this episode truly fulfills the promise of TWD being about the real walking dead, not the zombies. The zombies aren't the threat in this world, it's the any means necessary survival. It wasn't pretty, but hats off to the TWD team for having the balls to put us in such a "What would you do?" situation, and for having the skills to pull it off so perfectly.
ctg
weaver of the unseen
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You took words out from my mouth man.
Indeed. Gonna take some time to process that.
Got a heads up on twitter from a fellow Chron that something was afoot, which was just as well. If nothing else, THAT is how you do drama.
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Heartbreaking episode, really heartbreaking. 
Didn't realise it was time for the kids to check out though!
(Is it poor form to quote yourself?)
That's why I keep watching this show. It has no fear! Quality!
Many of these "single group" episodes have felt stretched out, and in parts this was no exception, but that ending was just brutal.
"Look at the flowers"-there are very few TV scenes I have seen more disturbing than that one.
Hats off to the writers for their bravery.
"Look at the flowers"-there are very few TV scenes I have seen more disturbing than that one.
Hats off to the writers for their bravery.
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I agree, JL, with your point about the stories seeming stretched a bit thin...we definitely need to get our group back together, to concentrate, so to speak, the story lines (and to move forward with the plot; almost seems as though they didn't want to start anything new before season 5, so they're 'filling' the rest of season 4...at least until the last episode!)! "Look at the flowers" was brutal.
Actually though, now that I think about the season ending, and it being what...8 months or so before the new season begins, the stretched story lines may not be that much of a burden to bear!
Actually though, now that I think about the season ending, and it being what...8 months or so before the new season begins, the stretched story lines may not be that much of a burden to bear!
ctg
weaver of the unseen
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They seem to stretched but they're logical. The whole group was scattered and there was no set in stone rally point, where they would had gathered after their safe-heaven in the prison was destroyed. And saying they shouldn't have done that is the same argument that went on and on in the second series. So why is it you people are so against individual episodes, when in last year you said that it was such a pleasure to watch episodes, where only few of the main cast were portrayed?
Don't you want to know more about the characters and close the threads, which has been hanging lose since the beginning of fourth season? Didn't you get a satisfactory answer to who was the feeding rats to the undead? Or what's going to happen when Tyreese finds out that Carol killed his lover?
Don't you want to know more about the characters and close the threads, which has been hanging lose since the beginning of fourth season? Didn't you get a satisfactory answer to who was the feeding rats to the undead? Or what's going to happen when Tyreese finds out that Carol killed his lover?
ctg
weaver of the unseen
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Believe me that they haven't spoiled anything. I know where the original arc went, and I raise my hat on how they had balls to alter the bits and give a chance for the characters to grow a bit. It's been a pleasure for me to not know, where they are going with the stuff and then be positively surprised with other familiar stuff.
I haven't much to say except to agree that it was probably the darkest episode. I'm not surprised that she could hold the views she did given that she lived on the farm with that barn. And you see that this still does not come easily to Carol. She does what is necessary. That is how Tyrese can forgive her, as he now knows it was necessary, even if he still cannot accept it.
That is the difference between USA and European TV. British and Europeans are okay with sex and swearing but will not show extreme violence. US TV is the exact opposite with murder and gun-crime being a staple, but no sex or swearing.
Culhwch
Lost Boy
You've not see Came of Thrones, then? Tiny bit of sex and swearing in that one...
I'll have to concede to you on that one. I was talking about censors historical attitudes (maybe they are changing and maybe TV is a little different to film.) I thought it was a joint production but looking it up it appears to be only HBO though Wikipedia does say, "It received widespread acclaim by critics, although its use of nudity and violence has caused controversy." It still isn't as explicit as you would get in mainland Europe.
Just Google "UK US censorship" for examples. This Raters Gonna Rate – Film Censorship in the UK | Stephen Follows has some good examples for films.
If you still don't agree then we should probably start a new thread somewhere.
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Quick word--I was born in the US, and traditionally it has been true that there has been more tolerance there for violence on TV than sex or swearing. This is particularly true for the rather conservative 'broadcast' networks, ABC, NBC, FOX, etc. Cable networks--HBO, AMC, etc--show more graphic violence than the broadcast networks, because of less restrictive Federal laws for cable that also allows them to air nudity, and as much swearing as they please (shows such as GOT & The Sopranos and Breaking Bad are all aired on cable TV networks). Not sure if this helps...? (And there may be some exceptions to the things I mentioned here, these are just generalities, but fairly accurate ones, I think.)
Culhwch
Lost Boy
Not necessarily disagreeing with you, Dave - it was just the first thing that jumped into my head when I read your post. And I think Cat's Cradle is correct in that it's the cable rather than traditional networks that have gone down the titillation path. I actually think it's great that TWD hasn't gone that way - there's plenty of violence, which makes sense given the setting, but they haven't felt the need to shoehorn sex in the way Game of Thrones tends to.
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That's a great point, Culhwch, I had never considered that TWD easily could have become a show where sexually explicit scenes were rampant...I mean, it's the end of the world, you know? Whether or not there's a lot of sex in the books, and since this is American cable TV, the network could have added titillation to expand the viewership (that REALLY does work in America, I think...it's still kind of a novelty, even though channels like HBO have been showing some nudity for almost 40 years; wow, show a bare bum on a network show and it's covered in the press!).
I think that is the other point...networks that CAN get away with showing skin, and have swearing in their shows/movies, usually decide to do so. There's such competition now for every single viewer in America (add in computers and smart phones to the shrinking TV demographics) that networks usually take every opportunity to be as lewd as they can (this does not however mean we'll be seeing nudity on the Food Network anytime soon!). I really believe if they were allowed to show a lot more nudity and have more swearing on their shows that the broadcast networks would incorporate more of it into their programming, in an effort to save viewers, who represent advertising dollars; that's another reason for the difference in attitudes between broadcast and cable...again, as a general statement, broadcast has to answer to very conservative corporate America; HBO, at least the that I knew, did not show commercials, and so didn't have to worry about being censored by their sponsors. Again, there will be exceptions to these general rules.
I think that is the other point...networks that CAN get away with showing skin, and have swearing in their shows/movies, usually decide to do so. There's such competition now for every single viewer in America (add in computers and smart phones to the shrinking TV demographics) that networks usually take every opportunity to be as lewd as they can (this does not however mean we'll be seeing nudity on the Food Network anytime soon!). I really believe if they were allowed to show a lot more nudity and have more swearing on their shows that the broadcast networks would incorporate more of it into their programming, in an effort to save viewers, who represent advertising dollars; that's another reason for the difference in attitudes between broadcast and cable...again, as a general statement, broadcast has to answer to very conservative corporate America; HBO, at least the that I knew, did not show commercials, and so didn't have to worry about being censored by their sponsors. Again, there will be exceptions to these general rules.
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