*SPOILERS!* *Crackpot* Deep question on the nature of ASOIAF*Spoilers*

Young stormlord

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Is the world of Westeros a classical fantasy world or is it the sci-fi story? Well, that's an easy question. Heroic fantasy, through and through.

But, what if it is really "after the fall" science fiction group of novels? George RR Martin had already written one of those stories, with Lisa Tuttle. Windhaven - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There's a little hint I have found that ASOIAF might be the same sort of story. And here it is. Arya, in AFFC, thinks about all the gods in the House of Black and White.


Thirty different gods stood along the walls, surrounded by their little lights. The Weeping Woman was the favorite of old women, Arya saw; rich men preferred the Lion of Night, poor men the Hooded Wayfarer. Soldiers lit candles to Bakkalon, the Pale Child, sailors to the Moon-Pale Maiden and the Merling King. The Stranger had his shrine as well, though hardly anyone ever came to him. Most of the time only a single candle stood flickering at his feet. The kindly man said it did not matter. “He has many faces, and many ears to hear.”

Now, what happens if you google some of those names? Nothing. Until you come to Bakkalon, the Pale Child. Then you get And Seven Times Never Kill A Man, a sci-fi story by one and only George RR Martin. Btw, story is sort of infamous for creating a look of wookies we all know and love.

Read it for yourself here (warning, there's advertisement): link

But the highlights include:
"In those days much evil had come upon the seed of Earth," the Proctor
read, "for the children of Bakkalon had abandoned Him to bow to softer
gods. So their skies grew dark and upon them from above came the Sons
of Hranga with red eyes and demon teeth, and upon them from below
came the vast Horde of Fyndii like a cloud of locusts that blotted out the
stars. And the worlds flamed, and the children cried out, 'Save us! Save us!'
"And the pale child came and stood before them, with His great sword in His hand,
and in a voice like thunder He rebuked them. 'You have been
weak children,' He told them, 'for you have disobeyed. Where are your
swords? Did I not set swords in your hands?'
"And the children cried out, 'We have beaten them into plowshares, oh
Bakkalon!'
"And He was sore angry. 'With plowshares, then, shall you face the Sons
of Hranga! With plowshares shall you slay the Horde of Fyndii!' And He
left them, and heard no more their weeping, for the Heart of Bakkalon is a
Heart of Fire.
"But then one among the seed of Earth dried his tears, for the skies did
burn so bright that they ran scalding on his cheeks. And the bloodlust rose
in him and he beat his plowshare back into a sword, and charged the Sons
of Hranga, slaying as he went. Then others saw, and followed, and a great
battle-cry rang across the worlds.
"And the pale child heard, and came again, for the sound of battle is
more pleasing to his ears than the sound of wails. And when He saw, He
smiled. 'Now you are my children again,' He said to the seed of Earth. 'For
you had turned against me to worship a god who calls himself a lamb, but
did you not know that lambs go only to the slaughter? Yet now your eyes
have cleared, and again you are the Wolves of God!'
"And Bakkalon gave them all swords again, all His children and all the
seed of Earth, and He lifted his great black blade, the Demon-Reaver that
slays the soulless, and swung it. And the Sons of Hranga fell before His
might, and the great Horde that was the Fyndii burned beneath His gaze.
And the children of Bakkalon swept across the worlds."

Your thoughts?

P.S. Yeah, I'm bored of nothing happening on these forums. Time to steer the pot a little ;)
 
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Young stormlord

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It sounds bloody

It does, but hear me out. If we go by Asimov postulate, that sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, what if generations pass from the moment it was known as technology? Will it become magic after all that time, especially if there was absolutely no way to make more of it?

What if we replace magic with advanced technology everywhere the magic is mentioned? Then, here are what the facts become.

The most powerful magic users were Valiryans. They came with their dragons and they forged their empire with magic,fire and blood. There was the empire of Old Ghys that young Valirya conquered with dragons. They ruled most of the world yet they never came to Westeros before the Doom, even though there are Others "up North". All their magic came from fire and blood. All of those of Valirian descent are known for their purple eyes and their inhuman beauty.

Well, what if they were actually inhuman? Well, not really inhuman, but humans from another planet, with some fancy technology including genetic one. What if they used dragons as self-replicating "green lanterns", sources of special energy that they used to power their "magical" machines? And their "Green Power Battery" was in Old Valirya and it exploded a while ago, making seas boil, burning dragons in the sky and filling the world with "demons", all of which can be killed by cold iron (all characters say that the last wisp of great magic died then, having kept alive at much lower intensity by the remaining dragons later, until the last dragon died in Westeros)?

What if Dothraki legend of dragons is true? What if there was a giant spaceship, the size of the moon, that exploded and let dragons into the world? And those Von Neumman machines had eaten the things on the world bellow and turned that energy into special energy we now call magic? What if dragons were never weapons, but the energy source? And suddenly, all the architectural feats of Old Valyria make sense. Asphalt roads, castles carved by lasers, "obsidian candles", kiss of life that helps only redheaded people... And the opposite of that technology, another spaceship, "up North" in the heart of winter.
What if there was another self-replicating technology, the weirwood technology?


Your thoughts?

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Eulalia

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Well, as you say, GRRM is ready willing and able to have an SF background, if he chooses.

The Pern series did the spaceship crash, genetic engineering and native fire lizards. But it already had a connection to planet orbits with string fall (if I remember).
 

Boaz

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Eulalia, that's exactly what Pern was.

Yet, I don't think that Martin is really linking his works together. I hope he's a bit more intentional than trying to back door a connection with his earlier works.

YS, I never made the connection that the two people brought back to life both happened to have red hair... hmmmmmmmm.....
 

ArstenWhitebeard

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YS, I never made the connection that the two people brought back to life both happened to have red hair... hmmmmmmmm.....

Neither had I. Very interesting.

This bodes well for Jon Snow, because it means he won't be able to be brought back to life Magically.
 

Narkalui

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What about Ygritte?

With Jon, didn't they put him in the ice cells, or did I read someone speculating this? 'Cos I think that's what they've done with him, then they're gonna burn his corpse and he'll wake up in th e middle of that and escape without being seen. He will be The Lord of Ice and Fire...
 

Anushka Mokosh

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Just post another trivia on the trivia thread ahahaha I don't have a question ready yet. XD
 

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