What is fantasy?

Wow. This thread has become turbocharged in my absence. Ah, turbocharged, that sounds somewhat SF to my ears.

Interesting list. It definitely shows your lean to SF.

Other SF words:
Evolve
Particle

Other fantasy words:
Rune
Spell
Conjure
Hex
Spirit
Charm
Prophet
Prophesy
Oracle
Unicorn
Dwarf
Witch
Familiar
Changeling
Curse
Dragon
Vision
God
Goddess
Demon
Farm boy (joke)
Familiar? Isn't that just an everyday, non-genre-identifiable word? Besides, whats familiar about fantasy except the sort you've read all too many times before? :)

To muddy the waters further, I have guns and electricity

You have guns? :eek: Blimey! I won't tell gun control, honest! :p That's interesting, because I've been looking for second world fantasy that goes beyond swords and flaming torches. There isn't an awful lot about. :(
 
Familiar? Isn't that just an everyday, non-genre-identifiable word? Besides, whats familiar about fantasy except the sort you've read all too many times before? :)(

Oops. Forgive my stupidity. Just looked Familiar up... n. a demon supposedly attending and obeying a witch, often said to assume the form of an animal.
 
Although you raise a pertinent point, one which prevented me from adding other stuff to psik's list. Familiar is a word which has multiple meanings, some of which could be easily used in an SF work. In fact, its more common meaning means it is little use in identifying a fantasy work from the actual word alone, as psik is attempting to do.
 
I tried to define fantasy (and SF and horror) on my blog not too long ago.

Science fiction is the literature of physical or technological alternatives to present-day reality.

Fantasy is the literature of magical or metaphysical alternatives to present-day reality.

Horror is the literature of paranormal or supernatural alternatives to present-day reality, in which the alternatives are presented as necessarily malignant.

Mine is true of all three.
 
Although you raise a pertinent point, one which prevented me from adding other stuff to psik's list. Familiar is a word which has multiple meanings, some of which could be easily used in an SF work. In fact, its more common meaning means it is little use in identifying a fantasy work from the actual word alone, as psik is attempting to do.

I considered adding the word "cell", as in single cell organism. But i figured "jail cell" or "prison cell" would occur more often.

I have added "mage" and "warlock" to the list but I will have to code it all.

But my original intent of the program was science words to relate to science education. The fantasy analysis was an afterthought. But what is it besides a curiosity? It is not like reading about witchcraft will help kids grow up to be better witches. Unless I am more out of touch with reality than I think I am. Which is pretty far actually. Why else would I be writing a program like this?

I did write an essay about the program and its results and submit it to Asimov's Magazine though. All they have said is that it is still under consideration.

psik
 
I have added words and made a couple of other modifications.

The word "familiar" turns up 3 times in H. Beam Pipers story Omnilingual. None of them have anything to do with the fantasy use of the word.

The program is written in C and the string search does not handle the beginnings and ends of words. Searching for "fusion" gives a positive result with "confusion" but provides no useful energy. I also have to check for word endings. I was not testing for colons and semicolons. Fixing that increased the word count on a few things.

All of the tests will have to be redone but the fantasy densities will probably change the most because of the increase in the number of words tested. Putting in the "swords" plural changed an SF story.

"charm", spirit" and "spell" were all used in Clarke's A Fall of Moondust.

He wished there was some neat way of breaking the spell that this glib-tongued maniac was undoubtedly casting.

Maybe I should include "casting".

But "familiar" has to go.

psik
 
Last edited:
Story it one can dismiss with the laws of real world physics,
 
Common elements:
– something that is unordinary/exceptional that sets off the fantasy thread of your plot
– a hero and villain (either of these could be your MC, or both) but I like the new anti-hero character that's being used more often now
– a magic system, but fantasy doesn't have to necessarily be magical
– creatures/characters from mythology
– MONARCHY (but I love the monarchy-turned-democracy-turned-dictatorship thread used between Avatar The Last Airbender and Legend of Korra)

Feelings:
– wonder at this new world
– curiosity at the adventure
– relief at the idea of escapism
– a strong connection to all the MCs of this story

Tropes:
– The Chosen One but in a fresh take
– The Tyrant Overlord (but make them human, please! No "being evil for the sake of it" reasoning)
– The Epic Quest with different stakes
– Kill the idea of black and white. I like "grey" worlds, characters and themes
– The Sacred Weapon/Object (yeah I love this one, but make the MC have to earn it in a new way)
– The Wizard Mentor (it could be a loner like Obi-Wan instead)
– Medieval Settings. Let's go somewhere new. Africa? Australia? Jupiter???

Best rant ever. Thank you
 
To me, a good fantasy evokes the feeling of discovery, of wonder at finding something preexisting but unfamiliar. Uncharted territory, strange creatures, never-before-seen events. In my opinion, good fantasy should feel like an expedition into an ancient but unknown land, no matter where it takes place or what the actual plot is.

But when we discover something, we feel a personal connection and even sort of ownership of it, which may be why we return to classic fantasy creatures like elves, dragons, and wizards, long after we discover them (apart from lazy writers, of course).
 
Last edited:
The first fantasy stories and world that I fell in love with were Robert E Howards Conan Stories and Hyboran age But that almost didn't happen. I ws in Bookstore look at what was on the shelves and I happed to pick up onetime volumes in the ace 12 volume Conan Series , I looked the cover and when I saw the copyright mid 1930's I thought naw too old. That's how I thought was back then . One day I saw a blue in Heavy magazine on Conan and I thought maybe ill give it try. So , I was in Boston in Laurietts Bookstore (which no longer exists) I happened to see the ace Conan books, I picked up volumes 1 and 2 on a whim went home and spend up book one and read the Hyboran age that Howard write and I was intrigued . The first story I read was The Thing in the Crypt which wasn't a Howard story , It was written by L Sprague De Camp who along with Lin Carter put tougher the 12 volumes . I like the that story and it integumentary enough to continue .The Howard story that really hooked me was The Tower of the Elephant, It was an amazing , I could visualize everything, Conan , The Tower, the giant spider and The Elephant ;like being and the history that this being related to Young Conan including villainous wizard who imprisoned and tortured this Elephant being to learn dark magic. Conan's aided this being inches revenge against this Wizard. This place , this Hyborian age had adventures wars, demon and monster haunted ruins . Thrilling stuff and, it always left me want more. In my early days, this was fantasy .
 
Technically fantasy is really any short story of novel that has a fantastical element in it.
Such as the use of magic to a greater or lesser degree or mythological animals such as Dragons or races such as Elves.
Or simply a made up world such as Westros or Cimmeria.
You can have serious high fantasy like Lord of the Rings, comic fantasy such as the late, great Sir Terry Pratchet's Discworld series and any thing that lies inbetween.
Either in a medieval or earlier setting up to modern times, use of dragons in Napoleonic warfare, or magicians in the modern work a day world.
Fantasy can range from Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and Gray Mouser, Robert E. Howard's Conan, Michael Moorecock's Elric adventures up to Randall Garrett's Lord Darcy criminal investigator, like SF, Fantasy is a very, very big world to explore!
P.S. And of course there is always Harry Potter!
 
Interesting how difficult defining fantasy appears to be. I am currently working on the second book in a trilogy. The setting is pre-industrial. Technologically and socially there are some similarities to ancient cultures (slavery is endemic, for example). Weapons of war range from early to late medieval. All places, realms and deities are invented. However, there is no magic system, no special powers, and no mythical creatures.

Is it Fantasy?
 
Interesting how difficult defining fantasy appears to be. I am currently working on the second book in a trilogy. The setting is pre-industrial. Technologically and socially there are some similarities to ancient cultures (slavery is endemic, for example). Weapons of war range from early to late medieval. All places, realms and deities are invented. However, there is no magic system, no special powers, and no mythical creatures.

Is it Fantasy?

Depends on your definitions, but there are at least two commonly held definitions by which the answer is Yes.

The first can be phrased as the following question: "Are the events in this book things that could have happened or could happen on Earth as we understanding it? If no, then it is fantasy."

The second is "Would publishers and booksellers shelves it in fantasy? If yes, it is fantasy".


The first gets a little tricky as made up countries that heavily resemble our conceptions of like countries are not fantasy. The inclusion of a country called Burunda as an African country in Yes Minister, or Syldavia and Borduria as Balkan countries in Tintin and the Calculus Affair so as to avoid naming a specific one, do not make those works fantasy. However, if a story's places and realms aren't such clear stand-ins, it's probably fantasy by those definitions.

And the second can get nebulous as well, but are works like this - thinking Mervyn Peake and KJ Parker off the top of my head - that are shelved as fantasy.


Some would argue it has to involve something supernatural, but such a view does exclude a few books that are clearly considered part of the fantasy genre by a large part of it.
 

Similar threads


Back
Top