Rehabilitation of prisoners?

[allmywires]

Oof, back again after being MIA (In my defence I'm on holiday...)

So I went to Alcatraz yesterday and it did a miracle - lit a little fire in the barren wastelands of my writing brain. I do have a question which I hope someone on here might be able to help with - how do prisoners get rehabilitation in the states, especially with regards to such violent/psychologically disturbed individuals such as those in Alcatraz? Would, for example, a speculative psychologist be allowed access to patients to use speculative medical techniques to try and 'cure' them?

I realise it's a bit of a tricky one so here's anothe question - how far from real-life canon would you accept with a historical place like Alcatraz when writing fantasy elements into it? Does the real world have to stay exactly how it's meant to be when you're adding something not-real to it?

Thanks muchly! (I'll be back!)

 

[Ursa major]

Apparently there's a site called Alcatraz 101.

Number 58 (found under the Minimum Privileges heading), states:

What kind of rehabilitation programs were offered at Alcatraz?

Warden Johnston instituted a successful education program featuring correspondence courses, but there was really nothing you could call a rehabilitation program for Alcatraz inmates. Alcatraz was set up for custody and punishment, and only when they left Alcatraz and returned to their original prisons, could inmates participate in prison-sponsored on-site rehabilitation programs.

Alcatraz wasn't a run-of-the-mill prison, though, so the conditions there were almost certainly atypical.


MIA = Missing in Alcatraz...?

 

[Mouse]

Don't know. Just want to say I'm very jealous. Would love to go to Alcatraz! (Also, hello!)

 

[allmywires]

Ta Ursa. From what I can gather they had a resident psychiatrist who dealt with the especially big nutjobs but only as and when required, not in any kind of treatment program. Le sigh. (Will bookmark that site though!)

Also, hi Mouse!

 

[ratsy]

Hey AMW, do they try to "cure" prisoners? I thought they just kept them there, trying to make sure they know what they did was wrong and then release or leave there to rot away.

I would think that the criminal sections of mental hospitals would be more apt to "cure"
prisoners

How is San Fran? My wife went for work a few years ago and checked out a baseball game and did some tourist stuff.... I think it looks like a really cool place.

An abnormal amount of homeless there though...I guess to receive "Welfare" cheques or something, you don't need a fixed address there so homeless flock there.

 

[Gordian Knot]

From my perspective of the situation, rehabilitation has become the least important concern of the modern prison system. The current thinking is that one is sent to prison as a punishment for a crime. The more serious the crime, the more degenerate prison one is sent to. The point seems to be that the more unpleasant the experience is, the more someone who gets out after their term will do anything not to get sent back. Even act so radically as not to perpetuate a crime again.

As for Alcatraz. My understanding is that there were actually two versions. Before it was made a Federal Penitentiary around 1930, it was a minimum security prison; life for the prisoners was relatively comfortable.

In 1934 that all changed. After it was purchased by the Federal Bureau of Prisons, it was turned into a maximum security prison made to house the worst of the worst; men that other jails could not handle. This is the brutal, inhuman Alcatraz that survives in legend and memory.

One site describes it so:

Daily life in the Alcatraz Federal Penitentiary was harsh. Prisoners were given four rights. They included medical attention, shelter, food and clothing. Recreational activities and family visits had to be earned through hard work. Punishments for bad behavior included hard labor, wearing a 12 pound ball and chain, and lock-downs where prisoners were kept in solitary confinement, restricted to bread and water.

Considering the mythology that already exists for this second Alcatraz, seems to me you have a great deal of leeway in how you would like to handle life in the prison.

 

[Abernovo]

I'd agree with Gordian about the leeway available. There's a lot of mythology and urban legends about major prisons and institutions, whether you're talking Alcatraz, Bedlam, or even HMP Belmarsh.

As to rehabilitation, I don't know that much about US prison system and I don't want to get political, but it seems to me that rehabilitation is one of the first things to be sneered at by politicians (regardless of country) trying to demonstrate how 'tough on crime' they are. Rehabilitation suggests some prisoners could reform. Such less than black and white ideas tend to show up shallow electioneering stances for what they are.

I thought Alcatraz was one of those prisons that was designed to send a message both to prisoners and voters.

Hope you're enjoying the States

 

[mosaix]

Hope this isn't off topic but after circuit training on a Thursday night a few of us end up in the pub and various philosophical discussions ensue (at least it seems that way at the time).

A couple of months ago the following hypothetical proposition was put forward for discussion:

Suppose that as a judge you could choose whether to commit an offender found guilty of a serious crime to either a) a month of rehabilitated that guaranteed he / she would never re-offend again or b) ten years in prison but with the very real possibility of re-offending. What would you choose?

 

[paranoid marvin]

Prison is there for rehabilitation first and punishment second; if someone is going to reoffend as soon as they get out, what was the point of putting them in there in the first place?

If someone is rehabiltated, it means they are truly sorry for what they have done and won't offend again; if that takes one day to do (with 100 certainty) then I would be quite happy for them to be released. What reasoning can there be for keeping a fully rehabilitated criminal incarcerated?

 

[Glitch]

how far from real-life canon would you accept with a historical place like Alcatraz when writing fantasy elements into it? Does the real world have to stay exactly how it's meant to be when you're adding something not-real to it?

If the fantasy elements kept within the legends, ie remained behind closed doors . Then I'd accept it.

 

[Mirannan]

Prison is there for rehabilitation first and punishment second; if someone is going to reoffend as soon as they get out, what was the point of putting them in there in the first place?

If someone is rehabiltated, it means they are truly sorry for what they have done and won't offend again; if that takes one day to do (with 100 certainty) then I would be quite happy for them to be released. What reasoning can there be for keeping a fully rehabilitated criminal incarcerated?

Pour encourager les autres.

Or to put it into English, prison is supposed to be a deterrent as well as a punishment. Which is why, IMHO, prisons ought to be a good deal less pleasant than at least some of them are; the exception to this being, perhaps, prisoners serving really long sentences being gradually re-introduced to the world in their last few months.

 

[mosaix]

Prison is there for rehabilitation first and punishment second; if someone is going to reoffend as soon as they get out, what was the point of putting them in there in the first place?

If someone is rehabiltated, it means they are truly sorry for what they have done and won't offend again; if that takes one day to do (with 100 certainty) then I would be quite happy for them to be released. What reasoning can there be for keeping a fully rehabilitated criminal incarcerated?

Pour encourager les autres.

Or to put it into English, prison is supposed to be a deterrent as well as a punishment. Which is why, IMHO, prisons ought to be a good deal less pleasant than at least some of them are; the exception to this being, perhaps, prisoners serving really long sentences being gradually re-introduced to the world in their last few months.

And there, in a nutshell, the twin threads of the discussion that we followed over at least a couple of pints.

 

[allmywires]

Hey AMW, do they try to "cure" prisoners? I thought they just kept them there, trying to make sure they know what they did was wrong and then release or leave there to rot away.

I would think that the criminal sections of mental hospitals would be more apt to "cure"
prisoners

How is San Fran? My wife went for work a few years ago and checked out a baseball game and did some tourist stuff.... I think it looks like a really cool place.

An abnormal amount of homeless there though...I guess to receive "Welfare" cheques or something, you don't need a fixed address there so homeless flock there.

I think you're quite right to be honest. The impression I got from the audio tour plus what I've read since seems to imply that the prisoners there were considered no-hopers and wouldn't have been given any lenience. SF is great, I love it (v windy and foggy though!) and yes, I've definitely noticed there's a load of homeless people here. Quite sad really.

I'd agree with Gordian about the leeway available. There's a lot of mythology and urban legends about major prisons and institutions, whether you're talking Alcatraz, Bedlam, or even HMP Belmarsh.

As to rehabilitation, I don't know that much about US prison system and I don't want to get political, but it seems to me that rehabilitation is one of the first things to be sneered at by politicians (regardless of country) trying to demonstrate how 'tough on crime' they are. Rehabilitation suggests some prisoners could reform. Such less than black and white ideas tend to show up shallow electioneering stances for what they are.

I thought Alcatraz was one of those prisons that was designed to send a message both to prisoners and voters.

Hope you're enjoying the States

Yes to this, basically. I reckon I'm going to roll with my idea and see where it takes me. Knowing me I'll never get past the first 10k but ya know...

I love america! Leaving tomorrow though, bad times.

If the fantasy elements kept within the legends, ie remained behind closed doors . Then I'd accept it.

Well I reckon I'd keep it so nobody off-Island ever finds out. I think. Haha.