I suck at geography

[Mouse]

So much so, that I'm not even sure 'geography' is the right word.

I've decided to have a go at rewriting my first YA book and, unlike what I write now, it's set in a fictional faux-medieval world.

Now, it strikes me that some of the things I've written might not be geographically possible/normal.

So, first things first. I've found a picture that fits what I've got in my head (and almost fits how I've described the place anyway)... Here.

My 'kingdom' (it's more like a county - say Cornwall but with a king) is just a castle and a few towns but it used to extend into a bigger region. But, see where the mound/hill type thingy is in the middle of the pic? Imagine that's flat. That is where my kingdom's located, so I've described towns with 'sloping, green mountains' rising behind them. All good so far, right? But I've also said it used to be moorland. Is that possible? It all looks moorlandish in the pic.

But then I've got - see the hill rising closest to the camera? - I've got the land dipping down into a valley there, which has a forest in it. Again, possible? There's a river running through the valley.

Ta in advance.

 

[The Judge]

I've just googled, and moorland is apparently found in upland areas, so that seems OK to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moorland

I think I'd call them hills rather than mountains, though. Where would the farmland be, though, that produces the crops for the city? I don't think moorland is particularly productive, which is why is left as moorland, probably. (You could pasture animals there, of course, but I still think you'd need some cereal/vegetable farms -- and the bigger the city, the more you'd need.)


I see no reason why a valley couldn't be on the other side of the nearest hill, and rivers run through valleys, so that's OK, too. The only thing I'd perhaps query is the forest. What kind of forest were you thinking? Black Forest fir tree, or more English deciduous woodland? The New Forest is mostly moorland, of course, and there are woods, but I don't know I'd call the original stuff (as opposed to the Forestry Commission plantations) forest as such, and I think there tends to be a bit of a gap between the two -- though what's in the gap I don't know. Also, if your main city is here, I'd have expected them to have stripped a lot of the forest by now for farmland and/or used the trees for fuel/building unless the king has put a Forest order on it, so he can hunt game or something.

 

[Mouse]

I've put 'beech and oak forest' but to be honest, I probably meant woodland so I can just change it to woodland.

I've got my 'good guys' living in the forest and my bad guys living in the towns. So, I had farmland in the valley that was used by the goodies, but they abandoned it cos of the bad lot kept bothering them. Then I've got still-in-use farmland on one side of the city. Would that be ok?

Ta, TJ.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I can confirm that you get moorland on mountainsides/tops -- there is a pass through the Sperrins that I drive over when I go for the Irish-sff-writers conferences (membership, still 2 ), and it is moorland the whole way over. With a pub called the Ponderosa or something which purports to be the highest in Ireland. And has patrons. How, I ask, who actually drives there?

 

[Mouse]

I know we get moors here on hilly places (Exmoor, Dartmoor, the Quantocks), just wondered if the flat bit could be too. (And this is why I now write real-world stuff!!)

 

[AMB]

The flat bit might be heathland?

 

[Jo Zebedee]

We get bogs here on the flat, too, which are essentially the same as moors, I think. (We have a lot of peat bogs, admittedly, which is why.) But in Enniskillen, which is lake country and very flat (and housing half the world's top politicians this week, I bet it rains on them. ) there are loads of roads that are built over the bogs. So if you're not sure about moorland, you could make it peatlands?

 

[AMB]

I think there are wet and dry moors. Wet ones are boggy, dry ones are heath-like.

Mouse, which are you thinking?

 

[Mouse]

Just googled heathland and it came up with Woodbury Common - which is handy, cos I've walked the dog there. That could fit. I might change it to heathland, ta.

springs - I've got bogland elsewhere in the story (coming off a moor!) Gah!

 

[The Judge]

As long as there is farmland sufficient to feed the city, that's fine, though perhaps the baddies might put someone into the now-deserted farms, in order to keep up continuity of supply. It takes a lot of food to feed a city of any size.

I did have another thought about the castle, though. They tend to be built on higher ground where possible, so as to give those in the castle a defensive advantage when it comes to sieges. I recall reading of a castle in East Sussex which was built to secure a long valley, but was situated not in the valley but to one side, on the hill. Can't recall which blooming castle, of course.

NB checking Lewes castle, I see that's built on an artificial mound, to give it height above the town (though I thought it was pretty high up there, anyway). In my fantasy I've got a convenient hill in the middle of the city for that purpose. So if you've got a good reason to build your castle, and the city which has presumably grown up around it, on the flat, you might want to do the same.

 

[Mouse]

They've got lots of farmland but they're crap at looking after it, so they go to the forest/wood in the vale and take all the people there into slavery to work the fields. (That's what the story's about, basically, then my hero has to go off to find an army to rescue her family). I've just had crops (and I think I mention pigs?!) can I stick some cows in there?

The castle is kinda magic, so I'm not too fussed about the accuracy of that one! It's built in a sort of maze and surrounded by fire.

edit: come to think of it, I do have another castle out on the moorland - the original king's castle, but it's just ruins. I might make them ruins on top of a hill, because that one's not magic.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Definitely, early castles were built in defensive places -- tops of hills, surrounded by sea, and if they didn't have an easily defended structure, then they'd earthwork a hill.

 

[Mouse]

I've just done a search and I don't mention the ruined castle in the first book. Bugger it, looks like I'll be rewriting the other two too!

 

[The Judge]

I like the idea of forced farm labourers -- and I love the idea of a magic castle!

As for the farms, I'd definitely shove cattle in there somewhere, and probably a load of sheep on the hills.

NB You saying about pigs has started me thinking. I've never thought of English medieval or earlier periods having pig farms as such -- ie high density like we get nowadays. I've pictured in my mind as just every village hovel having its own pig, fed with swill etc. But thinking about it, they must have had some numbers gathered together, otherwise we wouldn't have needed swineherds, which is a good old fashioned occupation. I shall now spend the rest of the evening wondering about where they herded them and why...

 

[Mouse]

Ha ha! Sorry, I'm sure you had better things to think about than swineherds.

The pigs are mentioned as being in the towns, but I'm pretty sure that's not until book two/three. And I remember them being mentioned as being kept in the forest/wood, but don't think we actually see them. Urgh. This is going to be more work than I'd thought!

 

[AMB]

That sounds reasonable. I would have thought the pigs were let alone to roam in the woods when not being herded (for whatever reason). Eat up all the acorns and fungi and stuff.

 

[The Judge]

Certainly pigs would be sent into the woodland in autumn. They still are here in the New Forest, as they eat the acorns which would otherwise poison the ponies -- it's called pannage (or common of mast here -- ie in regard to beech mast). But that's strictly limited to autumn and restricted in time, too, so what they did for the rest of the year I don't know.

NB a semi-interesting fact in case anyone else is thinking of shoving them in their book -- pigs are terribly destructive when they're rooting around. I've heard of them being used as living rotavators to clear ground.

 

[Mouse]

I've just done a search for 'pig' and all I have is one guy saying 'I've kept pigs' and a mention of pigtails. That's it. Again, must've been books 2 & 3 with the bigger mentions. This first book really is pretty sparse!

 

[AMB]

Try Medieval Suffolk: An Economic and Social History, 1200-1500 by Mark Bailey (link goes to Google books excerpt).

Seems sties be it.

 

[Glitch]

Searching online, I've found a link which may be of use concerning Medieval Farming and pigs

http://www.strangehorizons.com/2001/20010212/agriculture.shtml