Crackpot Theory on the "Luke Skywalker" reference

[joshrackley]

Since everyone else was doing it I figured I would, too.

For those not familiar with the interview with Alfie Allen (plays Theon Greyjoy in the GoT show) you'll have to look it up on your own since I don't have 15 posts yet . I saw the quote for the first time today and my immediate reaction was different than most people -- I didn't think of the "Luke, I am your father" bit. Instead, my first thought was twins separated at birth. What if that's the "Luke Skywalker situation" that Martin is referring to? So I asked myself who could "Leia" be? Maybe Meera.

I know it's completely batty and I have no idea what usefulness it has to the plot, but there it is. I'll have to go back and read through a lot of stuff before I decide whether or not I believe it myself (or if I even want to, haha).

 

[juleska]

Ohhhhhhhh.....now that's a good one. So you're proposing that Meera could be Jon Snow's sister? Only thing that springs to mind there is that she has never been described as strongly favoring the Stark look.

 

[Boneman]

Yeah but two eggs for twins when they're brother/sister so her genetic pool could favour the female side...

 

[Tywin]

Okay, could somebody other than Josh please post a link?

Luke Skywalker reference... if we're talking about twins separated at birth I would think there would be far more likely (in a dramatic sense) twins than Meera. Like Daenerys for instance.

 

[Ursa major]

The article is here.

And the relevant bit is:

What did you ask him about in return?
You know, I asked him about who Jon Snow's real parents were, and he told me. I can't say who, but I can tell you that it involves a bit of a Luke Skywalker situation. It will all come to fruition eventually.

And I agree, Tywin: Dany is a more likely "Leia" for Jon's "Luke".

 

[juleska]

Purely speaking about characters and personalities, I could understand that assertion. But Dany was definitely born to the Targ queen (name escapes me at the moment) in the midst of a storm in one part of Westeros, while Jon was born to "someone" (we assume Lyanna, but whomever) in a completely different part of Westeros. Ned carried Baby Jon back to Winterfell himself, and there is no indication that Ned was anywhere near the Targ queen when Jon was born. They can't be twins if they came from different mothers, and there is zero evidence or even implication that Jon and Dany came from the same mother.

 

[Ursa major]

I think the "bit of a Luke Skywalker situation" could cover Jon and Dany having the same father, i.e. Aerys. This has been suggested elsewhere on the Chrons, I believe.

 

[juleska]

The idea of Aerys being the father of Jon (and Lyanna being his mother) is definitely well established here, and I'm sure elsewhere. I can buy into that one, and if the phrasing of Alfie's remarks can be interpreted that loosely, it works. But if it turns out Jon is definitely one half of a duo from the same womb, I can't see that other half being Dany based on what we know of the circumstances of their birth.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

The idea of Aerys being the father of Jon (and Lyanna being his mother) is definitely well established here, and I'm sure elsewhere. I can buy into that one, and if the phrasing of Alfie's remarks can be interpreted that loosely, it works. But if it turns out Jon is definitely one half of a duo from the same womb, I can't see that other half being Dany based on what we know of the circumstances of their birth.

Furthermore, Jon was born during the last months of the Robert's Rebellion while Dany was conceived at that time.

 

[Ursa major]

But you're both still missing the "a bit like"** part of the quote, the bit being that they share a father (according to this theory), the rest being that they don't share a mother, a date of birth, a place of birth, etc. And by not sharing any of those, they haven't shared a womb (a womb that hasn't even been mentioned).






** - By the way, to me "a bit like" generally suggests a resemblance that is stronger than "vaguely like" and less strong than "quite like".

 

[juleska]

But you're both still missing the "a bit like"** part of the quote, the bit being that they share a father (according to this theory), the rest being that they don't share a mother, a date of birth, a place of birth, etc. And by not sharing any of those, they haven't shared a womb (a womb that hasn't even been mentioned).






** - By the way, to me "a bit like" generally suggests a resemblance that is stronger than "vaguely like" and less strong than "quite like".

No, I'm tracking with you. What I'm saying is IF his comment is intended that loosely, it fits. It actually fits with the "Luke, I am your father" bit as well. We'd all like Rhaegar to be Jon's father (well, most of us would, I'm certainly one), but after ADWD and the vision of the woman by the pool, it seems it has to be Aerys, one of the clear villains of the story. If all the implications are to be believed, the Mad King is more aptly named The Raper King. That one was a nasty piece of work, and Viserys was every bit his son. Drogo really did the world a favor with that one.

Now that we've all completely hijacked your theory, joshrackley, why don't you weigh in and make your case. I'm interested to hear more about the Meera angle, at least she's in the right age range and the right geographic location....if we're going with the twin concept. You'll get your post count over 15 in no time!

 

[joshrackley]

No worries on the "hijacking" (I don't consider it that at all, I like watching the paths discussions take).

As I said in the OP, I'm not really sure how I feel about the "theory" at all -- it was just the first gut reaction I had to reading that interview transcript. The only evidence to support it (if it can even be called that) is Bran's thoughts on how much Meera reminds him of Arya. Of course that's seemingly written to imply characteristics in behavior and not appearance, but it's left open-ended enough that it doesn't discount a physical similarity. Given that Jon and Arya share many physical traits, this seems to be the only potential evidence to support the theory.

On the other hand, Meera is described as being about 16 and so slightly older than Jon. But that's not a definitive age -- more of a rough estimate and so it does put her in the neighborhood.

 

[TK-421]

Oh by the Seven!!

While I love R+L=J, I have a major issue I have it is the physical traits. Jon looks the furthest thing from a Targaryen.

 

[joshrackley]

How many instances of Targaryens marrying other houses (Stark specifically if available) do we know of to theorize on, as Jon Arryn would put it, how strong the seed is?

 

[juleska]

Well there was Nymeria and her Dornishman. Also, did we ever get a physical description of Rhaegar's and Elia's children? I know "Aegon" has some Targ'ish features but did the children have any of the standard characteristics?

 

[Keebs411]

Well there was Nymeria and her Dornishman. Also, did we ever get a physical description of Rhaegar's and Elia's children? I know "Aegon" has some Targ'ish features but did the children have any of the standard characteristics?

Rhaenys took after her mother in appearance, she had brown hair and looked like a Martell, so says the wicki on a quick check.....

 

[juleska]

Right...well my impression of the Targs is that the incest is central to maintaining the "purity" of their look. Given that Arya so strongly favors her aunt, I think it's safe to assume Lyanna's genes would override whichever Targ knocked her up. Especially if Elia's weak genes would favor their daughter. So I don't think Jon's strong Stark features are a dealkiller in the speculation of his parenthood.

 

[Keebs411]

Right...well my impression of the Targs is that the incest is central to maintaining the "purity" of their look. Given that Arya so strongly favors her aunt, I think it's safe to assume Lyanna's genes would override whichever Targ knocked her up. Especially if Elia's weak genes would favor their daughter. So I don't think Jon's strong Stark features are a dealkiller in the speculation of his parenthood.

I agree. As much as i think this skywalker ref is more aimed @ Jo, if Tyrion was also targ via the mad king raping hia mother ( which speculated) that would be another surprising who you real father is moment too. And genetic speculation on his end ( he does have wats discribed as " white blonde hair), i do remeber pointing out in a different thread his having 2 diff colored eyes, which could be a trag trait! Because one of the past targ bastards also had this ( Shiera Seastar, half sibling to blood raven and also his mistress) she had one blue eye and one green tyrion as one black one green

 

[Tywin]

For me the best evidence of Tyrion being a product of a Targ rape is the attitude taken by Tywin:

1) Blames him for his mother's death.
2) Tries to humiliate him constantly (putting him in charge of the drains in Casterly Rock).
3) Refuses to name him as heir.
4) Broke with the mad king around the time of Tyrion's conception.

As for the loyalty that Tywin still shows to Tyrion on occasion and the comments that he is a "Lannister" on numerous occasions, that could be attributed to Tyrion's mother being a Lannister (she was Tywin's cousin, and already a Lannister by blood before their marriage).

 

[Liver and Onions]

Surely Varys knows, can we just not ask him?