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Destiny's Conflict: Speculation SPOILER WARNING!!!

Discussion in 'Janny Wurts' started by dekket, Feb 6, 2012.

  1.  
    dekket

    dekket Well-Known Member

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    Now that IT is out, is it about time to start a Speculation thread for the new Wars of Light and Shadow book?

    In which case, it is just a wild far out musing, but does anyone think that in the final two books something terrible from beyond the Northgate may be destroying the great drakes, and the Fellowship/dragons need to unite with the Paravians to face it?
     
  2.  
    aussie500

    aussie500 Well-Known Member

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    I think the final book will be something completely different, explaining (or at least looking closer at) at the mysteries, the development of certain individuals and groups, how they are connected and other aspects of the story that are so far sort of hidden, although annoyingly in plain sight. The mysteries of creation, Ath, An and Alt should finally be in our grasp with the final book. Janny probably gave us enough clues to guess at it already, but I am wearing myself out trying to pick appart the clues on that.


    Just about everything seems set to go to Sithaer in Destiny's Conflict, so a few extra wrathful drakes could turn up and voice their anger at humanity's attempt to destroy the place. Although for all we know there could be other sleeping dragons on Athera who will not mind toasting some ten-fingered vermin, they might not need any extra reinforcements. There seem to have been prophecies and predictions to cover everyone, maybe the drakes left on the link world will be worried their destiny is endangered and try to interfere. I would have expected them to stay on the other side till Athera's problems are sorted out though, but you never know. While the Master is away the dragons might come out to play. I doubt anything is going to be threatening the drakes though on either side of that gate, it is them that do the threatening. Whatever enticement got them to move, they might not get if they upset things developing on Athera.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2012
  3.  
    Clansman

    Clansman Lochaber Axeman, QC

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    Well, we all know that Janny never writes anything that doesn't mean something, so why have the confrontation between Asandir and the young drake at the North Gate? It is foreshadowing, pure and simple. Something is going to happen with the drakes, but we will have no idea what until it actually happens, or whether it will occur in Destiny's Conflict or Song of the Mysteries.

    Also, my bet for Destiny's Conflict is that the main theme will be the redemption of Lysaer. How that will be achieved or the effect that it will have is not in my power to see, but it has been coming since his moment of clarity in Stormed Fortress. His false religion is long since beyond his control, and he appears to have lost political control of Rathain, which may mean bad things for the clans there. We will have to see.

    Then, there is the Black Rose prophecy. The Paravians will not return unless Arithon accepts the mantle of kingship. Perhaps they never return, but something else happens? Janny just hinted in her DC updates thread on her website that the threads woven into vol. 1 are converging nicely. What does this presage?
     
  4.  
    aussie500

    aussie500 Well-Known Member

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    I would expect to find out what the problem is on the other side of Northgate in Destiny's Conflict. The dragons being one of the main instigator's of conflict on Athera, I would be expecting to learn a bit more about them, and perhaps have them redeem themselves for their past actions. The young dragon's visit could have just been a forwarning of rebellion on the far side keeping the older dragons busy.

    I still do not see Arithon ever accepting kingship, although there are different kinds of kingship other than earthly ones, he might not object to them all. Kingship of part of Athera, comes with Fellowship sanctioned power and attunements to all four elements. I am expecting Arithon to claim the elemental attunements for all of Athera, and not from Asandir or any other Fellowship source. So no strings attached requiring kingship, no need for any royal jewels, and he will not have gained power under the compact, so no ties to the Fellowship. Arithon's term of duty as Rathain's last Prince should only go for a lifetime, he dies presumably the Fellowship loose all claim on him, although Athera does not.

    Daviens plans for Arithon did not seem to include kingship, although he acknowledged Arithon could do it either way. If Arithon has to choose between being king and having the Paravians return, or something that lets humanity develop without sacrificing his freedom to kingship, but also without a Paravian presence, what would he choose? Kingship was killing Athera's talent off almost as fast as the rebellion, and humans are not made to withstand Paravian presence long term. The compact created the split in the first place between the clans and the towns people. The clans had to keep their bloodlines pure to ensure they could uphold their part of the compact, and the towns people eventually lost any connection they had to the mysteries. I think Arithon would choose what was best for humanity over what he would want personally. So I am not getting my hopes up the Paravians will be returning to Paravia.

    Once Arithon has the power of a king (with regards to the mysteries and Athera), and settled his future Davien should be happy and the Fellowship reunited, whether any actual black roses make an appearance on Daon Ramon remains to be seen. I am sort of expecting to find out the black rose is Athera and Arithon joined as one, but Janny is keeping us guessing. The Paravians are still going to have to put in an appearance when it comes time to sort out what everyone is going to be doing, and whether or not the compact between the Fellowship and the Paravians will continue. Presumably we get to that point after all the conflicts are resolved, which will hopefully be at the end of Destiny's Conflict.

    I want Song of the Mysteries to be concentrating more on the Mysteries, if we get to go through some of the same conflicts I want to see what was happening behind the scenes, the mystery of the so far virtually unseen contributors to the story. How it all came about, where it all leads to, and all the mysteries in between, if Janny can fit it all in one book.

    As to threads from CotM there are plenty, although I have not read the first book for a while here are a few ideas of what we still have left.

    Conflict between Arithon and Lysaer, end of Desh-Thiere's curse and redemption of Lysaer

    Mystery of what the Paravians are and where they went.

    Conflict between the Fellowship and the Koriani

    The Black Rose prophecy and the reuniting and restoration of the Fellowship

    Davien's hidden agenda and why he split from the other six in the first place. Just why he built the fountain, Kewar, the shaft at Rockfell and all those stairs.

    The rebellion and how that split is going to be resolved.

    The missing Ciladis, and what it takes to wake him.

    Traithe's restoration back to his full powers.

    The wraiths at Rockfell cannot stay imprisoned forever.

    The Fellowship are bound by the compact as well as their called duty to eradicate the drakespawn. Is there an actual end to those burdens.

    Not all the dragon's creations have been redeemed yet.

    The dragons seem to have created a bit of a bad reputation marring Ath's creation, can they make amends for those past mistakes?

    The destruction of the original human civilisation, which brought humanity to Athera in the first place. What really caused it, what can be done to heal that damage.

    The enslaved Koriani, and Elaira's destiny.

    The mystery of the destiny of the clans and how kingship ties into that. How does a kingdom's loss of it's royal line mean that clan destiny is also lost. Not that I think any will actually miss out.

    Elshian, Masterbards and two lyranthe's, there is bound to be a story there we get eventually. Probably the last book though.

    Alithiel, her making and the other 11 Isaervian swords, a certain cinder of a fallen star. 12 Paravian lines, 12 lanes. And later we found out there were 12 mariner's stars, and Tysan's royal sigil was a 12 point gold star. Alithiel was a mystery by herself, but there might be even more too it. By the 11th book we should get that story. If we end up with 12 books I will not complain.

    Just who were Elaira's parents and what happened to them.

    Lirenda has waited so long, does she ever get her chance at prime power.

    Morriel started not too bad and slowly descended just about as far as she could go. Is such perseverance to duty at the cost of everything going to be worth it. Is Morriel going to get her chance for redemption?

    Way back in the first book a question was raised when Asandir was attempting to heal Arithon of the curse of Mearth. "This Prince could not be other than mortal" yet that was not the only time Arithon did not react as expected when called with compassion. And there have been other hints, especially in Initiate's Trial, where Janny has been more obvious. I doubt Janny will give away too many mysteries till the final book, but the hints should be getting a bit broader. I should think after Destiny's Conflict, some might start to speculate in that direction a bit more.

    Humanity were only allowed to settle on Athera under the terms of the compact, so what happens when they eventually break the compact? We are probably going to find out in the next book. The conflict everyone knew was destined to happen.
     
  5.  
    dekket

    dekket Well-Known Member

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    We know that if the compact is broken the Drake's binding will take over, and the Fellowship will be required to eradicate mankind all over again. I would doubt that Destiny's Conflict will actually hold the breaking of the conflict, as the final book would be a bit empty without any humans. Also I believe that the 7th Age sages from the prologue of Curse were human's (as I wouldn't have expected Paravians to have forgotten past history), which would imply that humanity survives and the compact is not broken.

    Could it perhaps be renegotiated?

    However, as the Biedar settlement was not under the compact (negotiated directly with the Paravians), there would be no cause for the Fellowship to touch Sanspire if the worst occurs. Could the 7th Age Sages be all descendants of the Biedar tribes?
     
  6.  
    aussie500

    aussie500 Well-Known Member

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    I doubt the seventh age sages would be direct descendants of the Biedar, although some of the Biedar have already contributed to the talent on Athera, we have seen and heard of people of mixed parentage already, and the Biedar could have affected the development of talent other ways as well. And what they were doing before they reached Athera, settling other planets and moving on was highly suspicious. They might already have had a lot to do with the development of some outposts of humanity before anyone even arrived on Athera. The Biedar likely leave once Arithon's fate is settled, although there might still be some with Ath's Adepts. The seventh age sages are likely just a mix of the original groups, more highly developed and living in harmony with Ath. Humanity has an important part to play in Athera's destiny, so no matter what hurdles there are near the end of the third age we can be sure some survive.

    Janny gave us those clues at the very start, before we even started the first chapter of CotM. Arithon is known by name in the seventh age, so must have survived whatever happens next, and the sages were human and living on Athera, so humanity also survives.

    And the dragons take it into their head to spring clean, they will not be asking what faction of humanity they are toasting, they never acknowledged the compact, so never agreed to humanity settling in the first place. It was the Paravians who let humanity settle. The Biedar live underground so the dragons might have trouble toasting them, mind you the Biedar could probably avoid them anyway.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2012
  7.  
    aussie500

    aussie500 Well-Known Member

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    Was reading through a bit of Grand Conspiracy the other day and got to the bit about the Mainmere ruins and Imaury Riddler, finally think I unriddled a bit after all these years.
    "Mainmere wore legends whose truths were no man’s to unlock."
    If you look at what the stones will be doing you can probably guess after you have read Initiate's Trial. It will be a woman who unlocks the secrets, so no man. My guess is it will be Elaira, and Arithon will be the one listening. Seems Elaira is going to be busy chasing more than just the secrets of what her order got up to in the past.

    Or is there a reason the Koriani Prime Matriarch chooses certain locations to stay at? We should know all Morriel and Selidie's preferred locations by now.
     
  8.  
    aussie500

    aussie500 Well-Known Member

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    From the last snippet which is in Chapter set 11 somewhere, we have Tarens and Dakar probably near some of Rathain's clansmen, who it seems are causing some trouble. Tarens is loading a crossbow presumably he is planning on shooting something with it.

    Now strangely enough we have an earlier much larger sneak peak showing Dakar, Tarens and Cosach, Cosach was being distrustful of Dakar, and had been trying to trap Elaira. Cosach came of the worse for wear from the encounter thanks to Dakar.

    Cosach said something some where I thought was really dumb, considering Elaira had been been offered guest welcome by s’Valerient and Jieret was blood bonded to Arithon.
    "I’d stake my right arm my blood ancestor’d have silt his own throat before he relied on her compromised loyalties"

    Cosach's right arm is in danger then for a start, talent should always be careful what they say on Athera. I could see how losing a sword arm might improve Cosach's temperament and keep him out of trouble if he had to actually think more act less. But I doubt Tarens will be responsible.

    I do think Cosach is again going to be the victim, only Tarens is going to be providing the distraction this time. But it could be something else entirely.

    Red handed slaughter is not Tarens venue is the clue from the snippet (that's more Lysaer's style), being an initiate talent now, he is not likely to kill anyone. Although Arithon and Jieret managed to kill while having mage sight, and things often come in threes. Its the last few chapters so things might be getting desperate. Halwythwood might be under attack by the latest lot of Light blinded fools, or it could just be Elaira on her way through again.

    Are any lurkers going to come out of hiding and take a guess at who or what Tarens is planing on shooting. I will give my guess later.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2015
  9.  
    aussie500

    aussie500 Well-Known Member

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    I say Tarens should drop a hornets nest on Cosach's head, that would make him run. Tysan's next Caithdien was chosen because he was wise enough to know when to run in order to keep his people alive, Cosach is not so bright.
     
  10.  
    aussie500

    aussie500 Well-Known Member

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    Have we questioned where Arithon's talents are taking him? Prophet, seer, empath, mage, Masterbard, Master of Shadow, initiate master, master mariner all that creative talent, what will he become? Where will he guide mankind in the ages to come? What legacy will Arithon leave that still endures in the 7th age?

    Arithon will leave them a restored Ithamon I should think, so human civilization is going to have to evolve to embody all those virtues.

    Peace? A united humanity.

    A restored Athera, alive with the mysteries? Might need Elaira and a lot of help with that one.

    What do we think? (must be some live lurkers out there some where)

    We have Destiny's Conflict to go before we get to the Song of the Mysteries, but I do not see how Janny can get though the next book without us getting suspicious of where she is going with the final book. Arithons trip to the other side should be illuminating, she has to let us see what happens surely, not just another spirit walk where Arithon cannot remember where he went.
     
  11.  
    dekket

    dekket Well-Known Member

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    A restored Ithamon in a lush Daon Ramon would be something to see. With the King's tower restored in the centre, perhaps.
    In terms of the other side, I am not sure whether Janny would let us see that in the next book, or at all.
    I do wonder who will be the singer(s) in the last book. Arithon? The blade Alithiel? The Paravians? The Biedar?

    An Athera alive with mysteries would be my best guess, with a Paravian presence in some form. The drake's binding will not allow Paravian extinction, and with 7th age sages about in the prologue, I would expect that the Fellowship does not end up being forced to eradicate humanities presence form Athera.

    I will continue to wait patiently, to be amaze again with what Janny ends up putting into our hands.
     
  12.  
    aussie500

    aussie500 Well-Known Member

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    Well Ithamon has to have 5 towers for the chord to be complete, Athera's Masterbard is not going to be happy with a broken harmony. Even back in Perils Gate that missing register caused him pain. Presumably it has to be a kings tower, not a tower of truth. I am thinking it would represent sovereignty for an entire people, have to wait and see what happens. That would be after the third age, might take a while to rebuild human civilization to the point where they could support a new tower. I would not want to be sitting under Kieling tower in the next book. If every mortal enclave on Athera is going to fall as a victim to Lysaer's cause, and he unites all 5 kingdoms under his rule, compassion is likely to be lacking in Lysaer's new world once he gets what he wants. Certainly things have not got as bad as they could yet.

    But Lysaer might do his bit for Paravian survival, if he builds a new town in Daon Ramon, he is going to need a good water supply for so many, I think he will restore the Sevenir River. Might have slipped his mind why the town born wanted to make Daon Ramon a barrens in the first place, or he might think the Paravians gone for good.

    And on Paravians and Lysaer, did any one think it strange, that back in Curse of the Mistwraith, that Lysaer was drawn into that Paravian scene depicted in the tapestries hanging in the feast hall so easily. Bit of resonance with his inner self?
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2015
  13.  
    aussie500

    aussie500 Well-Known Member

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    Safer speculation then, Janny and Don were guests over at Keycon this year, a glimpse of a sketch of Telmandir seen there.
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFJVN2oVIAEZ_z7.jpg

    Wonder if it will be appearing as a painting for the cover of Destiny's Conflict. Big battle scene for Telmandir maybe, the fall of Havish would be a pivotal event in the coming conflict.
     
  14.  
    aussie500

    aussie500 Well-Known Member

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    In Janny's latest update she is almost though chapter set 11, earlier she mentioned it was leading into the FINALE PUNCH...which encompasses one major event, a twist, and an explosive follow up. The one event that set all this action off was likely what happens when you get rid of one shadow bending, mage gifted, Masterbard, that you need very much alive.

    But by chapter set 12 that problem might have resolved itself. Is the final punch going to be Morriel's downfall? A twist and an explosive follow up does not seem like the Lysaer/Arithon conflict. Will Arithon finally meet in person with the Koriani Prime near the end of Destiny's Conflict. We might yet get 13 chapters so could be a bit more to tell before Janny is ready to jump to the next story arc in Song of the Mysteries. Which I think would start a fair way from the end of the third age. Is Janny going to show the end of the third age in Destiny's Conflict? What changes will start that, who will be leaving Athera? Previously it was always arrivals that started a new age. Paravians, Fellowship, the human refugees. Time for someone to leave maybe? Davien wanted his freedom, will the Fellowship be leaving? Maybe some will team up with the dragons to use their combined talents to heal some damage done a long time ago? Something the Fellowship felt responsible for?
     
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    Grimward

    Grimward Where matter vanishes...

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    How, how, HOW do you manage to keep all of that in your head? I'd need a pensieve, for sure. :D
     
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    dekket

    dekket Well-Known Member

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    Instead of a departure as the point marking the beginning of the next age, perhaps the 4th age will begin with a return (rather than a new arrival).
    Return of Dragons?
    Return of the Paravian races?
     
  17.  
    aussie500

    aussie500 Well-Known Member

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    Paravians never left Athera, and I doubt they would unless they returned to the Prime source. There are dragons already on Athera, so although most left, more returning would not I think start a new age, and it would not be good for humanity, who we know was doing well in the 7th age. It would have to be a world significant event to start a new age. Just moving the existing inhabitants around is not going to change Athera's prospects.

    Considering what we know of Davien's plans, it would more likely be at least the Fellowship leaving, maybe the dragons and Biedar as well. But then what would be the changes that start the 5th, 6th and 7th ages?

    Rebuilding Ithamon maybe? Human civilization once more encompassing those virtues. But only one tower has fallen, unless more take a tumble.

    Healing Athera, and eventually dealing with the grimwards and their ghosts. For all the compassion and healing gifts of the Paravians, none of the physical damage the dragons did to Athera seems to have been healed. I would think that would have to be done for Athera to reach her full potential. And there would be a reason why some dragons did not end their lives in the sea, Janny has just not got to it yet.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2015
  18.  
    Grimward

    Grimward Where matter vanishes...

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    I think of the 7th age as far enough removed from the story's events that those events would qualify for "scholarly historical research and study". Doesn't necessarily mean that we have to have a story timeline that returns us to the 7th age, right?
     
  19.  
    aussie500

    aussie500 Well-Known Member

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    You think Janny will end the series, without unveiling humanities eventual destiny? I think we at least get to find out if they get another chance to have that star spanning civilization some were willing to destroy Athera to achieve. And there will be the question of exactly how it all began, creation. Need to see how that happened, how things developed, cannot have a book titled the Song of the Mysteries, and not take a peek at that! Janny has been dropping hints all through the series, and STILL we do not know. Best kept secret ever that one, a real mystery.
     
  20.  
    Grimward

    Grimward Where matter vanishes...

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    *grins*

    I don't disagree. I just think that Janny doesn't necessarily have to punctuate ages 5, 6 and 7 with game-changing events in her storyline to achieve all those things, that's all. In other words, all of the sub-plots conceivably could (for example) resolve in the 4th age (here, however, I'm with you in that I suspect we'll take at least one more big leap forward).
     
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