Where's it to?

[Mouse]

I'm going to be very annoying now for a while as I'm editing and questioning everything.

I've spoken about accents and dialects before and how they affect writing, and this question is kinda to do with that.

I have a tendency to put an unnecessary 'to' on the end of sentences. Where's it to is very West Country (see down the bottom on that link there) and I'll say things like "where are they to?" "Where are you going to?" "Where's that gone to?"

And at the zoo the other week, "Where's the meerkats to?"

I didn't know it wasn't the 'normal' thing to say, until my fella repeated it back to me in a ridiculously exaggerated way.

In my editing, I've come across this:

“Keep up!” she called, turning to see where Mojag and the boys had gotten to.*

And grammar check is trying desperately to convince me that I don't need that 'to' there on the end. But to me, it doesn't sound right without the to.


So am I right? Or is the grammar checker right?!

*I was pondering just changing it to 'gone' but that also doesn't sound right to me.

(Long post, small question. Sorry about that.)

 

[The Judge]

In British English it's not correct to say "gotten" anyway, not nowadays, but if you intend the POV character to sound American then that's another matter. I'm pretty sure it's one of those linguistic quirks which we actually used in past ages and it was taken over to the US in the C17th, but whereas it became non-standard here, it flourished over there. Nonetheless, it would jar with me for anything other than a modern setting.

Ahem. To address the "to" -- I think in speech something "Where did you get to?" or "Where's he gone to?" is fine, and in close POV is also fine if that's how the character talks. In more formal situations/less close POV it's "Where did you go?" etc (since "get" is itself frowned upon).

"Where's the meerkats to?" without the "got" must be dialect (ie seriously weird...)

 

[Hex]

Absolutely weird meerkats.

If you're using 'gotten' then I think you need the 'to' -- silly grammar checker.

I'd say 'gone', myself.

 

[Pyan]

Not just the West Country, Mouse: "Where's that to?" is normal in the Southampton area, as well. (the common bits, anyway - can't speak for the posher bits out toward Winchester and Romsey)

“Keep up!” she called, turning to see where Mojag and the boys had gotten to."

I'd say this is fine - slightly archaic, with the "gotten", but perfectly OK.

“Keep up!” she called, turning to see where Mojag and the boys had got to."

More modern style, but still OK

“Keep up!” she called, turning to see where Mojag and the boys had gone"

Agreed, this reads "wrong" - to me it sounds as if Mojag and the boys had actually vanished from sight, whereas the other two sound as if they'd just fallen behind.

 

[Abernovo]

Certainly in this case, I would use the 'to'. It's perfectly understandable to me. The problem is that I was brought up using similar dialect words, so I may not be totally objective.

My only issue would be the word gotten. Whilst I use it in speech sometimes, I was told not to use it in writing as it's 'poor form'. Sorry if that confuses the matter. 'Gone to', perhaps?

 

[Mouse]

Hmm. I had no idea that 'gotten' wasn't okay! I'll have to do a search and replace now, thanks all!

Pyan, yes, thanks! You've explained what I was thinking with the 'gone' not being right. Maybe I'll go for the 'got to' then.

edit: apparently I've used 'gotten' fourteen times. Oops.

 

[The Spurring Platty]

Growing up in the rural southern US (**coughs**) I've often heard an equivalent with "off" in it.
"Where's the meerkats gone off to?"

Or more likely "Where's the possum got off to?"

Not advocating, just saying =)

 

[Phoenixthewriter]

"Gone off to." I think sounds more realistic. As if running off on your own, you can run off to some place. wondering where someone has "run off to" or "gone off to" to my own ears sounds better, and sounds like something I would say.

Honestly, I wouldn't exactly write it in this fashion, and would just change things around so I could avoid the issue entirely.

Changing that last bit to "were" or maybe as others had stated "gone to" would make the most sense. I will say though that the whole sentence sounds strange as she's yelling to keep up, but I suppose doesn't realize they had left off on their own?

“Keep up!” she called, turning to see how far behind Mojag and the boys had fallen."

I don't know. It's obviously not my context, but if something eats at me in such a way, I ditch the whole thing and find another way to convey what I meant.


Edit: ah, Platty beat me to the punch, I was in the process of writing that very thing.

 

[Mouse]

With the meerkats, my English translation would be "Where are the meerkats?" or "Where can I find the meerkats?" Rather than the meerkats have wandered off somewhere.

Flaming complicated language!

I now have a problem with this sentence:

I've gotten unfit, she thought.

I can't have the gotten? But "I've got unfit" sounds like she's got a disease or something. As in "I've got the lurgy."

Confuzzled.

 

[Ursa major]

You could try:

I've become unfit, she thought.
​

This version sounds (to me, at least) a little formal for a thought (which would tend to use words and grammar more like the character's dialogue than their narration.

This may be better:

What happened to the fit me? she thought, knowing full well.
​

 

[Pyan]

I can't have the gotten? But "I've got unfit" sounds like she's got a disease or something. As in "I've got the lurgy."

Confuzzled.

Why? Use "gotten" by all means - it's perfectly allowable, even if it's regarded as a bit "American", which it really isn't:

http://www.miketodd.net/encyc/gotten.htm

We actually still use it: "ill-gotten gains"...

 

[Mouse]

I didn't realise it was American, really. I say it myself, which is probably why I use it in my writing. But then we still use 'ee (thee) down here so...

Ursa, do you mean 'become' sounds formal, or 'gotten' sounds formal? To my ears, become sounds posher than gotten.

 

[The Judge]

Well, we in the posher bits of Romsey would say "I've got so unfit" or "When did I get so unfit?" or summat of that ilk. But then, we're posh like that.

 

[Mouse]

Heh. Well personally I'd say "Gotten proper unfit, I have!"

 

[Ursa major]

Ursa, do you mean 'become' sounds formal, or 'gotten' sounds formal? To my ears, become sounds posher than gotten.

I was referring to the verb, become. And by formal, I thought it sounded distanced. Compare the feeling invoked by the statement:

I've become unfit.
​

with that of

God, I'm unfit.
​

The former is the narrator standing back from themselves and analysing their condition. The latter is their reaction to that and thus a more emotional - dare I say engaging? - statement.

 

[Mouse]

Yes. No, you're right 'become' sounds a lot more distant. I'll think I'll keep 'gotten unfit' though. In my search for 'gotten' it seems to be used more often in this particular character's dialogue. So I guess that's okay.

 

[Ursa major]

Maintaining character consistency is always important.

 

[Mouse]

Well indeedy!

Last questions, promise. Then I'll shut up.

[FONT=&quot]After having gotten directions to the city’s northernmost exit from the barkeep, Sorrel and her companions left the Stone Maiden.[/FONT]

I guess I can write 'After getting directions...' Yay?

[FONT=&quot]Whilst they had been talking, Gunda had gotten to her feet[/FONT]

Got? (And is 'whilst' okay?!)

[FONT=&quot]He wondered how far Sorrel had gotten and how soon she would be back.[/FONT]

Had gone? Had got to?

 

[Ursa major]

2) ...talking, Gunda had risen to her feet

 

[The Judge]

Yes; yes; yes for British English but Americans don't like it and prefer "while" without the end; and "had gone" (if distance; "how far she'd got" in solving a problem or something of that kind).