A Dance with Dragons - Discussion - WARNING: SPOILERS!

[miss nausicaa]

Hi everyone, I'm new on this forum butI've been really interested by all these ideas and theories ^^
I've read the 5 books in a few months, and I think I need to re-read it because i've surely gone too fast, but I've got 1 (obsessive) question : can somebody remind me the story about a possible dragon in winterfell? Can't remember anything about it
thank you

 

[Boaz]

I do wonder how Melisandre maintains her confidence in her belief in Stannis as Azor Ahai

That's the crux!!! I wonder too. She has to know. She must know. Is she in that much denial? Or is she playing at something else? Either she's insane or she's a liar... and I think she must be lying.

miss nausicaa, let me be the first to say, "Welcome!" I came here seven years ago looking for information regarding Jon Snow's paternity.... I don't know where it's mentioned, but there is a rumor of a dragon mayhaps slumbering under Winterfell. If you'll recall in Catelyn's second chapter of AGOT, her chambers are directly above the hot springs upon which Winterfell is built. So her chambers are always warm, even in winter. There were also rumors regarding a dragon buried in The Wall and one sleeping under the castle on Dragonstone. Look for posts by TK-421 (our resident research monkey), Werthead and Raven (they seem to be actual friends with GRRM's editor, if not with The Man himself, but they rarely post), or Imp, Tywin, and Needle (our in house trivia champions) to clear this up for you.

Do you think this Winterfell dragon has somehow allowed the Starks to be warg sensitive? Just a thought.

If you'd like to find your way to other threads, we'd all love to get your impressions.

 

[Ursa major]

...but I've got 1 (obsessive) question : can somebody remind me the story about a possible dragon in winterfell? Can't remember anything about it.

Welcome, miss nausicaa.

In Bran's last chapter in A Clash of Kings, he's having a wolf dream (i.e. he's seeing through Summer's eyes). The following text is from the third paragraph of that chapter:

The smoke and ash clouded his eyes, and in the sky he saw a great winged snake whose roar was a river of flame. He bared his teeth, but then the snake was gone.

One has to assume that this text is there for a reason, and not necessarily only to provide a vivid picture of the sky above a burning Winterfell.

 

[juleska]

Hi everyone, I'm new on this forum butI've been really interested by all these ideas and theories ^^
I've read the 5 books in a few months, and I think I need to re-read it because i've surely gone too fast, but I've got 1 (obsessive) question : can somebody remind me the story about a possible dragon in winterfell? Can't remember anything about it
thank you

Welcome to the chrons, nausicaa.

I've only read the series once through myself. I started reading AGOT again but my work has not permitted me to get through the series cover to cover again as I'd like, so don't feel bad, you're not the only one who feels like you need more time to digest it all.

Personally...having spent some time on this forum and other boards, I'm really excited about going back to re-read the books with those theories in mind. I think it will help me get more from the story the second go around.

 

[miss nausicaa]

Thanks for your welcomes !
I must admit I hadn't seen any hint of it while reading, but your quotes are actually quite intriguing... and the idea of a hidden "Stark" dragon is really attractive too !
Otherwise, for my thoughts in general, I quite agree with the theory that Jon is not dead (or won't stay dead, even if I would prefer if he doesn't die at all) : for example I remember a chapter with Arya POV, where, at the end, we are told the Dog's axe caught her in the head, and finally it's just the wooden part of the axe... When Martin wants to tell us somebody's dead, it's quite clear. I expect the same kind of thing here, I think he will survive his injuries... and I am always optimistic !
Still about Jon, for the part about AA reborn, I wonder if it's not a bit obvious... or at least too much "expected"....

 

[Stribog]

As for melisandre, I think at some point in aDWD she finally figured out that her God was showing her AA when she was being given visions of Jon Snow. This leads me to believe that not only has she lost confidence in STannis, she will forsake him, and she has already forged an alliance with Jon.

Helping him evade death, and standing by his side as AA reborn, what a glorious vision

 

[Ursa major]

...and standing by his side as AA reborn, what a glorious vision

I expect it's just me, but does anyone else see 'AA reborn' and think 'rechargeable battery'?

(And perhaps a stay in the Wall's ice cells could do Jon a world of good....)

​

 

[miss nausicaa]

"(And perhaps a stay in the Wall's ice cells could do Jon a world of good....) "







What do you mean???

 

[Pedro Del Mar]

Walls ice cream? A few 99's and a rest in a cell might work wonders! ha ha

 

[Ursa major]

"(And perhaps a stay in the Wall's ice cells could do Jon a world of good....) "

What do you mean???

If you look at the bottom right of the post from which you're quoting, you'll see a couple of smileys. When I use the (not to mention finishing a sentence with an ellipsis and a full stop ("....")), it usually means there's a pun, or some word play, in there somewhere.

In this case, I'm playing on the meaning of the word, cell, which can also mean battery (or a part of a battery).

(On top of that, the Wall is meant to be guarded by spells, and we know magic is growing in ASoIaF, so there's also a hint of speculation that placing Jon's body in the ice cells - or having Jon's 'spirit' inhabiting (by warging) one of the bodies already in the ice cells** - might have some magical effect on Jon.)


** - You'll need to read Needle's theory about Jon.

.

 

[miss nausicaa]

If you look at the bottom right of the post from which you're quoting, you'll see a couple of smileys. When I use the (not to mention finishing a sentence with an ellipsis and a full stop ("....")), it usually means there's a pun, or some word play, in there somewhere.

In this case, I'm playing on the meaning of the word, cell, which can also mean battery (or a part of a battery).




lol alright ! I'm French, so I didn't know this use of the word "cell" ! I felt a bit of humour, but couldn't get it right!
in which thread are Needle's theroy on Jon? ty

 

[Needle]

If you look at the bottom right of the post from which you're quoting, you'll see a couple of smileys. When I use the (not to mention finishing a sentence with an ellipsis and a full stop ("....")), it usually means there's a pun, or some word play, in there somewhere.

In this case, I'm playing on the meaning of the word, cell, which can also mean battery (or a part of a battery).




lol alright ! I'm French, so I didn't know this use of the word "cell" ! I felt a bit of humour, but couldn't get it right!
in which thread are Needle's theroy on Jon? ty

Welcome miss nausicaa! here is the link, enjoy! http://www.sffchronicles.co.uk/forum/1528838-post223.html

 

[Stribog]

Jeez, you beat me to it by the seconds Needle

 

[miss nausicaa]

Amazing theory, I really love it !! hope you're right

 

[firstfist]

OOps. Wrong thread. Moving text to the right one.

 

[Stribog]

Oops. Replied to it in the right thread

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

I was fortunate enough to be able to read all the books at once, without having to wait the six or so years for DwD to come out.

As such, I wasn;t really disappointed with the book at all. Sure there were some slow part, but they gave enough insight into the characters to be interesting. I should also mention that I finnished reading them almost 6 months ago so, one, I might be looking at the books through the rose coloured glasses of time, and 2, all the books kind of mashed together.

I also just read all of this forum, and I wanted to address something that was discussed, at length, about 15 pages before this post. Sorry for dragging up old business

Quentyn Martell was NOT a useless addition to the story.

Through him, we get A) the eventual release of dany's dragons, which I am sure will play a huge part in the battle that is coming to Mereen. B) we learn about a pact in which his sister was supposed to mary a Targ (and guess who else showed up in this book. Why, if it isn't the last male targarian) C) we get introduced to his 2 companions, Drink and Greenguts. I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that these 2 will play a big part in the comming books. We know that Barristan asked them to speak with the Windblown and that Barristan promised the Tattered Prince Pentos. And you know who and what, is in pentos.

(the answer is Illyrio and ships)

I think Martell's 2 companions, while note being major carachters, are going to be lynchpins in Dany's eventual return to Westeros. GRRM needed a couple good 'Ol westeros knights in Mereen, and quentyn was the boat that brought them there.

 

[Tywin]

Arsten, welcome to the forums!

I think you are probably right with the importance of Quentyn's journey because while as a reader I didn't care for him or his companions much (because I hadn't grown to know them over a full 5 books), the author seems to be pushing them as important... which probably foreshadows future events.

A couple things:

B) we learn about a pact in which his sister was supposed to mary a Targ (and guess who else showed up in this book. Why, if it isn't the last male targarian)

I understood this to mean that she was supposed to marry Viserys... which when he got crowned caused the deal to change to be Quentyn marrying Daenerys.

I think Martell's 2 companions, while not being major carachters, are going to be lynchpins in Dany's eventual return to Westeros. GRRM needed a couple good 'Ol westeros knights in Mereen, and quentyn was the boat that brought them there.

I don't see them as necessary for her to have knights since she has Barristan MF Selmy along with her who is churning out a new class of knights singlehandedly in his spare time while running her city, preparing defenses, and killing pit fighters with his bare hands.

You make me wonder though if these two might have a role to play in making a connection between Tyrion and Dorne. I've wondered exactly what Doran Martell is going to aim his vengeance toward since Tywin and his nastiest minions are dead (got it, that's debateable), I figured he would destroy Cersei and then... what? Well, since Tyrion seems to be the only Lannister that Dorne is on friendly terms with (The Red Viper fought and died for him), what if the two Dornish noblemen are the start of a connection between the Imp and Dorne?

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

"what if the two Dornish noblemen are the start of a connection between the Imp and Dorne? "

thanks for the welcome. To be honest, that didn't even occur to me, but it seems likely.

As for the whole Pact thing, Yes, Arienne was supposed to Mary Visarys, But if Doran Martell can try to change things to wed Quentyn to Dany, when he finds out Quentyn is dead and Aegon is alive, he might try to change the conditions again and see if he can't wed Arienne to Aegon. Aegon might even accept if it means he gets the immediate support of dorne rather than the prospect of support from Dany. Especially if they consider that he doesn't need to be married to Dany to be her ally. If he wants dragons, there are 3. I picture Dany on Drogon, Aegon on Rheagon and one more, yet to be determined person on Viseron.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

Oh also, I didnt necessarily mean the Dany needed 2 westerosi knights perse, just there there had to be some in the area, for whatever reason.

I think we can all agree that Barriston Selmy is probably the greatest man who ever lived (in this series) and it would be a toss-up as to who is the biggest Bad-a** between him and Tywin.

The story Cersei tells about Tywin staring down the man who cracked a joke about him while he ate is my favourite part of the book so far.