I have no issues with the way writers portray females in their fantasy worlds, we have always had a short shrift and in many parts of the world still do. In fact it's probably more realistic in a medieval/fantasy world that women are treated like possessions, however, it would be good to read a book about a world where women are in charge and treat men in a similar mannerWhilst I wouldn't say I'm an out and out feminist I would certainly have a strong belief that females are portrayed in a lot of sff, particularly fantasy, in a way that makes me uncomfortable. I particularly have problems with GRRM's portrayal, and have avoided Jordan given the feedback on the forums.
So, a trip to the local library, which seems to have had a recent delivery of sff and has a pretty good range for once, and i've picked up a copy of Prince of Tides, and am curious as to what I'll find...
Ok so i finished it. It wa a reasonably entertaining read. Jorg is suitably horrifying with an awfulness it is hard to look away from.
Few of the secondary charcters are drawn in detail - Makin is the exception - and the women are paper thin. The attraction between Jorg and Katherine is drawn so quickly and lightly, i failed to believe it on any level. The rape is mentioned and blanked out which is fair enough as it obviously has a huge part in shaping Jorg, but the lack of any female character i could buy into had an adverse effect for me. I am afraid i won't be looking for the sequel.
Which is absolutely right. I doubt if i would have chosen the book but for this thread, i am not your target market.Thanks for the read
Pretty much all the characters who aren't Jorg are paper thin. By design.
Everyone has to choose their reads according to their tastes, but I won't ever be writing to satisfy any taste other than my own. If a story leads me to focus on a female character then that's what you'll get, but you'll never find me lobbing one in just to keep readers happy.
Both books were written so that they could be enjoyed at a superficial level as a fast-paced fantasy romp. A fact to which the commercial success is probably attributable. There are (reported elsewhere, so it's not _just_ in my mind ) deeper levels, but it does skip over the faux-depth offered in much genre writing which squeezes philosophy into aphorism and has the main character monologue you some pontification that straight up tells you 'this is a deep and serious book' when in fact it isn't at all.The second book gets a little more complex I thought.
That criticism i had after the first book too, wanted to see and learn more about the world and i didnt like the deus ex machina help.Well, finally read it - wasn't anywhere near as rapey as I feared, despite the murderous misogynist - reminded me of Glen Cook's Black Company stories, but more focused and better use of language.
Not sure how the Nuban was a "magical negro" though?
Main complaint was that it was a bit of a light read, really - the simple story with very limited character and world building made it feel somewhat YA.
I kept wondering when we'd see the ruined cities; and Jorg is saved by deus ex machina a little too often perhaps.
But minor complaints in what was a well-paced story with some good use of language. Enjoyed the dark humour, too.
The depth in Prince of Thorns is more of the kind found in literary fiction, existing not in the 'to camera' pieces or in plot complexity (which is just complexity, not depth), but in the questions raised.
I am a bit confused by this. Literary fiction is such a wide field, i wonder what books you are referring to.
To my mind, your style of writing is very far from literary fiction (this is not to knock it, btw, i like fast paced), but certainly the depth does not come close imho to most literary fiction i have read.
In terms of the questions raised, i am afraid i have rarely read a book that raised less questions in me as a reader. I enjoyed it for what it seemed to be: a pacy, easy to read tale, with an interesting protagonist. But not literary fiction.
Once again, this isn't to knock it; whilst i have read my fair share of literary, my preference is to easy reading, albeit ones that spark thinking in me.
I also wonder, sorry, why there is a need to justify it? It has had good reviews, good sales, is published (gah, i wish ) so surely it stands in its own right irrespective of readers' viewpoints? J
Heh - a funny thing to put at the end of a long request for justificationI also wonder, sorry, why there is a need to justify it?
Seems every board I look on is full of a hunt for & take against "deus ex". As an outsider I'd not previously noticed it. It seems to me to stem for the great focus in the genre on plot above all else.That criticism i had after the first book too, wanted to see and learn more about the world and i didnt like the deus ex machina help.
Having wikipedia-ed the subject & made myself an instant expert it seems to me that this is an idea born of American cinema's reflection of American social issues. That's not where I come from, and whilst I can accept that's the echo is might summon up in some readers it's no part of mine. I draw on my own experience when I write - which is personal, different, and in no part taken from a shelf of tropes.I never really saw Nuban they way you guys describe Magical Negro, he was more typical stereotype of blacks in modern epic fantasy it seemed to me. Silent,cool side character there to help and be a tool for the hero to grow up. The type i have seen too often and i just had to look past. A negative stereotype that is part of the field.
In the original Greek theatre usage, yes, but a degree of chance, luck, serendipity I think can be acceptable so long as the use is limited - my reading is that it's actually quite common to some degree."deus" is ... taken as a failure of imagination on the part of the author.