Thomas Pynchon

[Kierkegaurdian]

So, I came across this on Wikipedia the other day, and it got me thinking:

"Thanks to his influence on Gibson and Stephenson in particular, Pynchon became one of the progenitors of cyberpunk fiction; a 1987 essay in Spin magazine by Timothy Leary explicitly named Gravity's Rainbow as the 'Old Testament' of cyberpunk, with Gibson's Neuromancer and its sequels as the 'New Testament'."

I was wondering what your thoughts were concerning Pynchon, and his impact on the cyberpunk / sci-fi world. I have only read V. and The Crying of Lot 49, but I can still see how he could have been an influence for something like Stephenson's Baroque Cycle. Are some of his other novels leaning more towards the sci-fi world?

 

[Dave]

My daughter, who is reading Psychology, was recommended Gravity's Rainbow by a lecturer. It is quite a substantial book, and not that easy to read, so she gave up on it and handed it to me, saying "Dad, this more like something you would like!" I replied, "Thanks!" not really sure if that was a compliment or a criticism.

I began reading it myself, but I didn't find it to my liking either, and didn't get far. From what I read, it concerns a top secret World War II intelligence group working in London who have all sorts of weird and wacky ideas and theories. One is plotting V2 bomb sites to see if they are completely random or have some statistical pattern. I could see why it would appeal to a statistician or to a psychologist, and can also see why it could be said to to an influence of Stephenson's Baroque Cycle and even more on Cryptonomicon (especially the World War II parts.)

I might make an attempt to finish it sometime, but it is a little weighty and he doesn't use one word where ten will do, if you know what I mean. I haven't read anything else by Thomas Pynchon.

 

[D_Davis]

The Stars My Destination is the "Old Testament" of cyberpunk. It beat GR at that claim by about 20 years. Although GR is more "post-modern."

And lot's of Ballard's stuff pre-dates Gravity's Rainbow as well.

I think GR has more of an influence on Stephenson's later stuff, as well as books like House of Leaves.

 

[D_Davis]

Here is an interesting article from the Journal of Science Fiction Studies on Pynchon and postmodernism.

Roy Arthur Swanson- Postmodernist Criticism of Pynchon

 

[Dave]

Although I cannot open that page in the link given I would add that I would agree with D Davis. It is always difficult to pigeon-hole or shoe-horn books into genres, so a sweeping statement such as "the old testament of cyber-punk" will always be wrong.

I don't consider the Baroque Cycle to be cyber-punk, more like alternative histories. Just because Snow Crash and Diamond Age are cyber-punk doesn't make Stephenson a cyber-punk author. Zodiac clearly isn't.

And there was a good deal of cyber-punk before Stephenson, none of which sees any influence by Gravity's Rainbow but does show the influence of JG Ballad. The introduction to the Bruce Sterling edited defining cyber-punk anthology Mirrorshades cited Ballad as an influence.

Bester's Stars My Destination certainly has all the elements of cyber-punk there, so would be the earliest (unless you know different.)

 

[gully_foyle]

The Stars My Destination is the "Old Testament" of cyberpunk.

Can you back that up with some discussion of why it would be so? I actually felt The Demolished Man to be a pre-cursor to cyberpunk with it's mix of high tech corporations and dense sprawling suburbia.

 

[D_Davis]

Can you back that up with some discussion of why it would be so? I actually felt The Demolished Man to be a pre-cursor to cyberpunk with it's mix of high tech corporations and dense sprawling suburbia.

It's all in the attitude and themes, not to mention the cybernetic implants, the martial arts, the multi-national corporations, and the story itself - one lone man versus the establishment. The Demolished Man is, as well, but I think Stars has more of the f-it-all attitude and punk ethos.

 

[D_Davis]

And there was a good deal of cyber-punk before Stephenson, none of which sees any influence by Gravity's Rainbow but does show the influence of JG Ballad. The introduction to the Bruce Sterling edited defining cyber-punk anthology Mirrorshades cited Ballad as an influence.

Mirrorshades is great.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that Pynchon was influenced by Ballard; from what I've read of Pynchon, which isn't a lot (I don't really care for his obfuscating style), he seems rather Ballardian in terms of theme.

 

[Kierkegaurdian]

Thanks for the discussion. I now have several new books to check out!

I too was a bit thrown off by the "Old Testament" statement, since what I had read of Pynchon didn't seem very cyber-punk (although most definitely part of the broad speculative fiction genre that is so closely related to hard sci-fi).

I think that one element that ties at least Stephenson and Pynchon together is their use of sprawling, historical mystery ... there is hidden intrigue in Lot 49 and apparently Mason and Dixon (which I am just starting) that is similar to that in Cryptonomicon (especially after finding out that a certain character also appears in The Baroque Cycle).

I think for the time being, I will hold off until reading more Pynchon, before making any more comparisons. I have read most of Stephenson's books, and not too many of Gibson's, so I have a ways to go.

 

[BAYLOR]

I read V sometime ago and after reading im Im still not quite sure what it was about .