Slayers

[Doctor Crankenstein]

I'm almost at the end of Buffy now (Two discs left of season 7)

The following has been irritating me for some time now and I thought It would get resolved (It still may be?).

When Buffy 'dies' at the hands of the master in the first series her death 'awakens' Kendra. When Kendra dies this awakens Faith.

When Buffy dies by jumping into the vortex (or whatever it's called) why isn't another slayer activated?

Have I missed something or is this actually a plot-hole?

 

[Tinsel]

I see that there is a season 7 now on iTunes. I'm on season 3, just starting actually. Not sure how long before I can try to answer this post, which I read with one eye closed. I was thinking about how many individual episodes that there has to be. On another thread, someone suggested religion....no wonder the show was difficult...or that could be the soul reason....for Buff.

 

[j d worthington]

It has been a while but, as I recall, it is because Faith is still alive and active. Buffy has already died (and returned), putting her outside the normal system; her death here, under the peculiar circumstances existing, doesn't cause such a reaction....

 

[Tinsel]

After seeing J.D's post, with one eye closed, I see that it really is a question of faith and so in that circumstance what can be believed. This should be healed without watching the shows.

 

[Doctor Crankenstein]

putting her outside the normal system

That explains it perfectly. Dunno why we couldn't work that out. My girlfriend and I have been talking about this for days trying to work it out.

Thanks

 

[digs]

I read somewhere that Buffy and Faith would both have to be dead in order for a new Slayer to be called.

Ooh, found it on Wikipedia, but it contains spoilers for the end of the series Doc so you might not want to read it just yet: Slayer (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Basically I think that, had Faith died and Buffy remained alive, a new Slayer still wouldn't have been called. Or maybe the writers just didn't think about it and made the rules up as they went...

 

[Rand]

It has been a while but, as I recall, it is because Faith is still alive and active. Buffy has already died (and returned), putting her outside the normal system; her death here, under the peculiar circumstances existing, doesn't cause such a reaction....

I'm sure this was the reason, but Whedon also played rather loosely with the slayer concept in the series. His original premise was into every generation a Slayer is born, then he turned them into the equivalent of shop employees; if one leaves someone else gets her job immediately.

As I recall, early in the series even the evil characters in the show weren't up to speed on the slayer employee replacement policy. They kept thinking that if they killed the slayer all their problems were over.

 

[j d worthington]

I'm sure this was the reason, but Whedon also played rather loosely with the slayer concept in the series. His original premise was into every generation a Slayer is born, then he turned them into the equivalent of shop employees; if one leaves someone else gets her job immediately.

As I recall, early in the series even the evil characters in the show weren't up to speed on the slayer employee replacement policy. They kept thinking that if they killed the slayer all their problems were over.

Again, I may be misremembering (it has been some years since I last watched any Buffy), while Joss did change the rules as the series went along, it was generally as a result of his lead character's managing to throw a spanner into the works... something she frequently did, and the longer she was at the game of being a Slayer, the more willing she was to throw the whole thing out of kilter if she thought she had a better idea.

But initially, at any rate, there was (as is so often the case with an intended series) a "bible" which set down how these things work, to aid the various writers in their scriptwriting duties; that is where the "in every generation", etc. first came into play with the series, iirc (though it was also a part of the original film, for the matter of that). And it stayed in place through the emergence of Faith at least, though by that point Buffy had certainl played hob with the entire setup, very much to the bemusement of Giles and the utter confoundment of his superiors... even (eventually) to the originals; let alone the bad guys....

 

[Rand]

Again, I may be misremembering (it has been some years since I last watched any Buffy), while Joss did change the rules as the series went along, it was generally as a result of his lead character's managing to throw a spanner into the works... something she frequently did, and the longer she was at the game of being a Slayer, the more willing she was to throw the whole thing out of kilter if she thought she had a better idea.

Just to be sure I'm clear on what you're saying, are you referring to the changes in the character herself or the way Geller played the character?

But initially, at any rate, there was (as is so often the case with an intended series) a "bible" which set down how these things work, to aid the various writers in their scriptwriting duties; that is where the "in every generation", etc. first came into play with the series, iirc (though it was also a part of the original film, for the matter of that). And it stayed in place through the emergence of Faith at least, though by that point Buffy had certainl played hob with the entire setup, very much to the bemusement of Giles and the utter confoundment of his superiors... even (eventually) to the originals; let alone the bad guys....

I'm probably being too semantically precise, especially for this genre, but what I'd meant to say was that a generation is usually defined as 25 years, and the intro tells us that a slayer is born into every generation. Putting those words together seems to tell me that once in 25 years one slayer emerges, and if that slayer is killed then we have a rather long wait before the next one comes along.

This also seemed to be the idea presented in the movie, although I recall reading that Whedon didn't like the way the movie was handled. I don't know the specifics as to why.

Back to the series, Buffy's replacement, Kendra, not only came along within months after Buffy's two minute death, but we learn that she has been a potential slayer since birth and has been in training all this time. Then when Kendra died, Faith popped up, another who seems to have been in training for quite some time. In the final season we learn that there were dozens worldwide, and even that number changes in the finale.

Again, semantics. Maybe this was what he'd intended all along, but decided that Into every generation a slayer is born sounded more dramatic.

 

[Doctor Crankenstein]

Yeah it sounds more like a catch-line than a 'rule'

 

[j d worthington]

I was referring to the way the character tended to be a thorn in the side of the Watchers, at least a great deal of the time. She was never much of one for following rules, and frequently threw them right out the window, with the option of doing the same to whatever Watcher happened to object... with the possible exception of Giles (though there were times.....)

Yes, those later episodes, with the plethora of Slayers... at that point, I think Joss had himself decided to throw many of his original conceptions into the bin; though there was, as I faintly recall, some sort of rationale for this sudden burgeoning of potential Slayers given, dealing with the sort of threat which was coming. I don't recall specifics on this, but I do recall that it struck me as one of those things which sounded more than a little specious at the time....

 

[devilsgrin]

to be fair though, there weren't ever more than two actual slayers at any point until the very end... those girls were all "potentials" not actual slayers.

I don't really see and major inconsistencies with the call of Kendra after the Master killed Buffy. If we got a new Slayer after Kendra died, it stands to reason that as the Official Slayer, Kendra's death would trigger a new one to be called... hence Faith. The moment the Master killed Buffy, she became a bonus Slayer... and perhaps because of that, far more effective, her living defied the Rules that the original "watchers" set down.

It seems to me that there were many potentials because tragedies happen, who's to say which potential is going to die suddenly. and then upon the death of Slayer, the Powers selected which of the many potentials was the best choice at that time to step up and answer the call.

 

[Rand]

Just so I don't give the wrong impression, I loved this show and think it was the best episodic (or non-anthology) horror-fantasy show ever aired. Which doesn't stop me from saying that much of series/season six was a waste, although it had some notable highlights.

Anyway.

It seems to me that there were many potentials because tragedies happen, who's to say which potential is going to die suddenly. and then upon the death of Slayer, the Powers selected which of the many potentials was the best choice at that time to step up and answer the call.

While a lot of people loved the Kendra and Faith episodes, myself among them in most cases, I felt that adding slayers on a per need basis watered down the urgency attached to the calling. If it's only one in twenty five years, then she'd best get it right and stay alive or we're all in trouble. If another one immediately takes the place of a dead slayer, her life becomes less important in the grand scheme of things.

But I suppose I should reserve some of my critical analysis for after I create a television show that airs for 7 years and 145 episodes

 

[devilsgrin]

Just so I don't give the wrong impression, I loved this show and think it was the best episodic (or non-anthology) horror-fantasy show ever aired. Which doesn't stop me from saying that much of series/season six was a waste, although it had some notable highlights.

Anyway.



While a lot of people loved the Kendra and Faith episodes, myself among them in most cases, I felt that adding slayers on a per need basis watered down the urgency attached to the calling. If it's only one in twenty five years, then she'd best get it right and stay alive or we're all in trouble. If another one immediately takes the place of a dead slayer, her life becomes less important in the grand scheme of things.

But I suppose I should reserve some of my critical analysis for after I create a television show that airs for 7 years and 145 episodes

I don't disagree actually. Whilst Faith was a fantastic character, and you really felt for sheltered Kendra, especially getting taken down by Drusilla... it did feel more tense with the thought that if Buffy died the vampires, demons etc would have the run of the world. of course, now that that thought is running through my head, if that were the case, NO slayer could hope to push back the tide of "evil." after, lets say 15-20 years of demon dominance, even Buffy couldn't have changed the world back to people-friendly. holding back the tide of darkness would be far more doable.