IlliferThePenniless
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 11, 2009
- Messages
- 285
So a couple of weeks ago I decided to start working my way back through the series (for the fourth time overall, the first since I've started hanging out here). What follows are some random thoughts on the first book. Spoilers for the whole series...
•I've been plowing through a lot of fantasy lately and it's striking come back to this series what a good writer Martin is... Putting aside plotting and character and everything else, his prose is really really good. Markedly better then a most fantasy that's floating around out there.
•I had totally forgotten (or, really, it hadn't occurred to me) how much Jon and Tyrion are tied together at the beginning of the series. Tyrion comforts Jon at Winterfell, they travel to the Wall together, Tyrion gives him more advice. Tyrion designs Bran's saddle as a favor to Jon. Their challenges are tied together thematically ('all dwarves are bastards in their father's eyes'). I don't know if it's really that significant ultimately, but I think I've moved Tyrion pat Bran on my 'dragon's third head list' for the moment.
•With each successive time through this book, I'm less and less sympathetic to Eddard. Littlefinger tells him he wears his armor like 'a suit of armor' and the little **** is totally right about that. It's like Ned is refusing to engage with the world as it actually exists, choosing instead to live in a world of his own creation, where he doesn't have to deal with the likes of Petyr and Varys. Upon reflection, his fate seems completely immutable. His refusale to take Reny up on Baretheon's 100 swords is particularly egregious, it costs the Starks an awful lot.
•On the other hand, Drogo's fate seems more unfair and tragic every time I revisit the series. I think one of my favorite alternate scenarios is the one where Drogo and his army ravage the seven kingdoms... I'm sorry it didn't work out that way.
I've never really been able to decide if Mirri Maz Dur was trying to kill the Khal from the start, or if she makes that decision once he's already at death's door... It's odd to go back to where Dany started, a terrified young girl. She's a long way from the scourge of Slaver's Bay she's become.
I still kind of like my idea that the three treasons Dany will know are things she'll do, not things that will be done to her. I think asking the blood mage to save Drogo clearly qualifies as one of them.
I had forgotten that Dany promised Jorah a valaryian sword 'the likes of which the world has never seen.' I think we all expect him to be back at some point, though I, at least, don't really have a strong expectation of how he's go to return... but I'm leaning towards him getting back into Dany's good graces somehow. I rather think he's going to get a sword (Widow's Wail?)
•I had forgotten how completely infuriating Sansa is in this book. As of ADwD it looks like she might be shaping up into the a player in the game of thrones (though, upon reflection, that's really based solely in her inferring Littlefinger's plan with Lyn Corbray, a slender branch to hang our hopes on to be sure), but she's an obnoxious little prat in this book. BY FAR my least favorite PoV. She pretty much deserves everything bad that happens to her.
•It's much more obvious in retrospect that Theon is bad news then I ever realized my first time through the book. He's introduced kicking the head of the man Eddard's just executed. Between that and the constant smirk (mentioned constantly throughout this book), it should have been obvious to me that sending Theon to bargain with his father was a bad idea on Robb's part. All the indications were there reading back through, I'm pretty shocked that my first time through I was convinced Theon was a pretty good guy.
•I wonder what Robb would have done if he had some reliable indication that Joff was the product of incest. I rather suspect that he'd reluctantly have bent knee to Stannis as the rightful king. The way that council goes before he's crowned King in the North, it's clear that submitting to the Lannisters is out of the question, but his only objection to Renly is that he can't be the rightful King. The prospect of allying with Stannis is never seriously considered. It's sad that he never had the chance to make that choice.
•Old Nan knows thinks that the arrival of the red comet means dragons have returned to the world. Does that mean she's old enough to have seen another comet herald dragon birth before, or is this just some small piece of small folk wisdom that only she remembers?
•Should we add Bran to the list of folks who might know the truth about Jon's parentage? On the night Eddard dies Bran and Rickon dream of meeting Eddard down in the crypt, clearly a sort of green dream, and Bran says his father was about Jon... I wonder if Bran will learn something of his step brothers history as he develops his powers with the Children...
•This is a long shot I suppose but I hadn't noticed before that when Varys comes to visit him down in the black cells Ned asks about sending a letter. He seems to give the idea up when it becomes clear that Varys would read it with no guarantee of actually sending the thing off. It's just slightly possible, however, that Varys might be in possession of a letter Ned wrote short before his death. It seems like the only candidates to receive a missive like that would be Jon ('hey I'm not your dad'), Robb ('don't trust the Lannisters, Stannis is the true king'), or Cat ('I love you. PS Jon's not mine'). I don't think it's terribly likely, but the possibility hadn't occurred to me at all before.
•On a R+L=J note, something I hadn't picked up on before (though I'm sure many of the sharps here had), but twice in AGoT Dany mentions that Rhaegar died on the Trident for the woman he loved. Which, you know, doesn't fit the official version of events at all. I don't think that there's anyway to construe the events leading up to Robert's Rebellion as having had anything whatsoever to do with Elia Martell. Draw your own conclusions, but that's a pretty major flashing red sign that something isn't right about the official version of the story...
That's all I've got for this one, I'll check back in when I finish ACoK.
•I've been plowing through a lot of fantasy lately and it's striking come back to this series what a good writer Martin is... Putting aside plotting and character and everything else, his prose is really really good. Markedly better then a most fantasy that's floating around out there.
•I had totally forgotten (or, really, it hadn't occurred to me) how much Jon and Tyrion are tied together at the beginning of the series. Tyrion comforts Jon at Winterfell, they travel to the Wall together, Tyrion gives him more advice. Tyrion designs Bran's saddle as a favor to Jon. Their challenges are tied together thematically ('all dwarves are bastards in their father's eyes'). I don't know if it's really that significant ultimately, but I think I've moved Tyrion pat Bran on my 'dragon's third head list' for the moment.
•With each successive time through this book, I'm less and less sympathetic to Eddard. Littlefinger tells him he wears his armor like 'a suit of armor' and the little **** is totally right about that. It's like Ned is refusing to engage with the world as it actually exists, choosing instead to live in a world of his own creation, where he doesn't have to deal with the likes of Petyr and Varys. Upon reflection, his fate seems completely immutable. His refusale to take Reny up on Baretheon's 100 swords is particularly egregious, it costs the Starks an awful lot.
•On the other hand, Drogo's fate seems more unfair and tragic every time I revisit the series. I think one of my favorite alternate scenarios is the one where Drogo and his army ravage the seven kingdoms... I'm sorry it didn't work out that way.
I've never really been able to decide if Mirri Maz Dur was trying to kill the Khal from the start, or if she makes that decision once he's already at death's door... It's odd to go back to where Dany started, a terrified young girl. She's a long way from the scourge of Slaver's Bay she's become.
I still kind of like my idea that the three treasons Dany will know are things she'll do, not things that will be done to her. I think asking the blood mage to save Drogo clearly qualifies as one of them.
I had forgotten that Dany promised Jorah a valaryian sword 'the likes of which the world has never seen.' I think we all expect him to be back at some point, though I, at least, don't really have a strong expectation of how he's go to return... but I'm leaning towards him getting back into Dany's good graces somehow. I rather think he's going to get a sword (Widow's Wail?)
•I had forgotten how completely infuriating Sansa is in this book. As of ADwD it looks like she might be shaping up into the a player in the game of thrones (though, upon reflection, that's really based solely in her inferring Littlefinger's plan with Lyn Corbray, a slender branch to hang our hopes on to be sure), but she's an obnoxious little prat in this book. BY FAR my least favorite PoV. She pretty much deserves everything bad that happens to her.
•It's much more obvious in retrospect that Theon is bad news then I ever realized my first time through the book. He's introduced kicking the head of the man Eddard's just executed. Between that and the constant smirk (mentioned constantly throughout this book), it should have been obvious to me that sending Theon to bargain with his father was a bad idea on Robb's part. All the indications were there reading back through, I'm pretty shocked that my first time through I was convinced Theon was a pretty good guy.
•I wonder what Robb would have done if he had some reliable indication that Joff was the product of incest. I rather suspect that he'd reluctantly have bent knee to Stannis as the rightful king. The way that council goes before he's crowned King in the North, it's clear that submitting to the Lannisters is out of the question, but his only objection to Renly is that he can't be the rightful King. The prospect of allying with Stannis is never seriously considered. It's sad that he never had the chance to make that choice.
•Old Nan knows thinks that the arrival of the red comet means dragons have returned to the world. Does that mean she's old enough to have seen another comet herald dragon birth before, or is this just some small piece of small folk wisdom that only she remembers?
•Should we add Bran to the list of folks who might know the truth about Jon's parentage? On the night Eddard dies Bran and Rickon dream of meeting Eddard down in the crypt, clearly a sort of green dream, and Bran says his father was about Jon... I wonder if Bran will learn something of his step brothers history as he develops his powers with the Children...
•This is a long shot I suppose but I hadn't noticed before that when Varys comes to visit him down in the black cells Ned asks about sending a letter. He seems to give the idea up when it becomes clear that Varys would read it with no guarantee of actually sending the thing off. It's just slightly possible, however, that Varys might be in possession of a letter Ned wrote short before his death. It seems like the only candidates to receive a missive like that would be Jon ('hey I'm not your dad'), Robb ('don't trust the Lannisters, Stannis is the true king'), or Cat ('I love you. PS Jon's not mine'). I don't think it's terribly likely, but the possibility hadn't occurred to me at all before.
•On a R+L=J note, something I hadn't picked up on before (though I'm sure many of the sharps here had), but twice in AGoT Dany mentions that Rhaegar died on the Trident for the woman he loved. Which, you know, doesn't fit the official version of events at all. I don't think that there's anyway to construe the events leading up to Robert's Rebellion as having had anything whatsoever to do with Elia Martell. Draw your own conclusions, but that's a pretty major flashing red sign that something isn't right about the official version of the story...
That's all I've got for this one, I'll check back in when I finish ACoK.
