Survivors 2.05

[Jardax]

Sarah has died of a mutated virus version.
Finale is coming next week and it looks interesting. I really like this show, it has some naive moments but it has also a good and complex post catastophic aspects.

 

[ctg]

Although they hinted a lot that it was a second generation virus, it could have been something else as well. The good thing was it's lethality rate, as the virus pretty much contains itself where ever it surfaces. So bad for the virus, good for the survivors.

It's interesting to see that there are communities all around the country, doing exactly what they should do, rather than sitting fingers in their arses and wondering how long it's going to take. But this is exactly what these 'selected' government types has done when they flew to safety. As much as I can see they're in much more trouble than the survivors wondering around the country.

What I really liked in this episode was the romance, the distance between the couple and the tragedy of losing one. It was a very bold move from the writers to strike out one of the characters that has grown much more in this season then some of the others. Then again, as the coin has always two sides, there was some things Sara wasn't able to do as well as the other 'stronger' characters.

In the story aspect, this episode did really nice on wrapping the lose threads that has been swinging in the wind since the beginning of the 'new' survivors. And I really hope that the BBC has balls to carry on this story to next season.

 

[Dave]

Although they hinted a lot that it was a second generation virus, it could have been something else as well.

There were endless scenes of flocks of birds flying, and influenza is known to spread this way i.e. Avian Flu. The young girl almost undoubtedly caught the virus from the chickens she was keeping, which died the day before her. They would be very likely to have caught the virus from other birds. Flocks of domestic poultry are very susceptible to diseases from wild birds such as pigeons and sparrows.

I'd say it was rather more than a "hint". The result is that they are not free of this "second generation" virus as they can never escape birds. I assumed that that was the reason for Abbey's change of heart towards helping create a vaccine, and their subsequent return to the laboratories.

 

[ctg]

Interesting theory, and in a way it's how I see it. But the problem is that the virus kills the birds within 24 hours. So, the virus cannot spread too far. It could be contained within the British Isles.

But the question in mind is: "What's happening with rest of the world?"
"How many survived outside the Isles, if around the south-west/mid-lands there are around twenty to thirty thousand survivors... millions?"

 

[Dave]

Maybe those flying birds are immune and could therefore be disease carriers? I do know that sparrows carry Newcastle's disease to chickens which leaves them unable to feed, while presumably it has little effect on the sparrow itself. I'm not sure what this disease is though. The symptoms are like bubonic plague. Interesting that this week we did see more animals; there were dogs roaming the streets now - both Alsations for some reason - but I still think we would see more.

There hasn't been anything about the rest of the world. In the original series they did link up with survivors in Norway. I can't see why the BBC won't commission further series as I expect it gets good viewing figures. So maybe they will follow that plot in this version.

I did wonder how the lab contacted the "mysterious man" via the laptop. Presumably, there are no normal phone lines or internet. If it was some kind of protected dedicated government link, then there is no reason why the "mysterious man" is still in the UK. He could be with the people who left from the airfield. He could be anywhere in the world.

 

[ctg]

Maybe those flying birds are immune and could therefore be disease carriers? I do know that sparrows carry Newcastle's disease to chickens which leaves them unable to feed, while presumably it has little effect on the sparrow itself. I'm not sure what this disease is though. The symptoms are like bubonic plague. Interesting that this week we did see more animals; there were dogs roaming the streets now - both Alsations for some reason - but I still think we would see more.

It will take years before we see vegetation covering the London. In sixteen years the whole social structure is changed when the predators gain ground. Typically the dogs will create 'gangs' and roam around the suburban areas, leaving the city for the domestic cat. According to the documents, in sixteen years time, the forest animals start to appear in the city areas.

So if they choose to grow the community, then they should settle somewhere near the sea areas. Possibly somewhere near Dower, as that channel tunnel still offers them a chance to move to the mainland. In that ways I think the 'tribe' can survive longer.

There hasn't been anything about the rest of the world. In the original series they did link up with survivors in Norway. I can't see why the BBC won't commission further series as I expect it gets good viewing figures. So maybe they will follow that plot in this version.

I did wonder how the lab contacted the "mysterious man" via the laptop. Presumably, there are no normal phone lines or internet. If it was some kind of protected dedicated government link, then there is no reason why the "mysterious man" is still in the UK. He could be with the people who left from the airfield. He could be anywhere in the world.

The internet survive as long as nothing happens to the root servers, or main cable nods. So if they're connected to the main grid and some of the Nuclear Plants can be operated via the remote control. I believe they can survive with level of technology. Just someone has to be able to maintain those boxes from time to time.

In theory, "The Elite" can survive in their isolated community for a long period of time, as long as they know how to maintain the NBC training. In there the chances are that the warriors over the time some sort of police force that can show the 'stick' to the survivors.

Did you recognise the plan? Was it the DC-3 (20 seater, 1500 miles (2414 kilometers) range)?

 

[ctg]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
Maybe those flying birds are immune and could therefore be disease carriers? I do know that sparrows carry Newcastle's disease to chickens which leaves them unable to feed, while presumably it has little effect on the sparrow itself. I'm not sure what this disease is though. The symptoms are like bubonic plague. Interesting that this week we did see more animals; there were dogs roaming the streets now - both Alsations for some reason - but I still think we would see more.

It will take years, before we see vegetation covering the London. First you'll see the grass sprouting from the cracks in the tarmac. Then the backyard gardens would start to bloom. The Hyde Park in London in turns would transform into a nice long grass meadow. One by one the Trees start to seed around, and as there is no one to keep them from gaining the ground, a small forests would start to sprout around.

Among the survivors are the large population of domestic animals that would find their way out, one way or another, as the indoor food sources would wind down. The top breed among the domestic animals are the German shepherds that we saw in the footage, but in away it's strange that we haven't seen more cats roaming up and down the streets.

It would take years for these hounds to follow their predator genes, and transform to wolves. So as the population of the England wind down to between fifty to hundred fifty thousand, the domestic animals could keep the bird population down.

In that time the most lethal version of the virus has gone down into the ground. It would remain there dormant.

So given the time scale, the Elite can survive in an island, or in a mountain community that is isolated from rest of the population. And come out as a police force to take what they want from the survivors.

They could, therefore, take Abby's son and out last the population. And when they would come out, they could form a government and breed through him a second generation survivors.

Ones that would inherit the land of their Fathers. A land that where a new breed of population would bear a fruit.



PS. I'm sorry about the flash fiction, but some of it has been based on the facts that I have read as I have researched background material for my book. So if you see more rewrites, you know what it means.

 

[Jardax]

The internet survive as long as nothing happens to the root servers, or main cable nods. So if they're connected to the main grid and some of the Nuclear Plants can be operated via the remote control. I believe they can survive with level of technology. Just someone has to be able to maintain those boxes from time to time..........

Sorry but i cannot agree. Just imagine remotely controled nuclear plant it can be just another catastrophe in a row.

Concerning technology, i trust people will be back in medieval times after few generations. More than 90% of population is away, next victims will die soon because fight for resources and because diseses without proper medical care (pneumonia, tetanus, ...). Such population cannot keep the technology. Yes they can use some vehicles and similar stuff but they cannot create a new ones anymore. Technology needs so many specialists and wide background built in a long term plan.

The most important thing is knowledge. Just imagine...first generation of survivors lived in techno world, second one will get some first hand knowledge form people who really knows, but all next following generations will get less and less info and they will get it from people who never saw how the things worked out.

Rome had a huge knowledge base, they even build libraries with books and manuals but it took 1500 yours to newcomers (barbarians) to get the same level of knowledge. Advantage of barbarians was their count. Just imagine what will be with so small "tribes" after virus attack.

I see only one way: to focus on elementar knowledges usable in agriculture, forrest industry, basic mining and building. This will prevent few next generations from beginning at point 0.

I am sure it sound a little retrograde but you have to focus on things you can handle in long term view and forget things those can you help just for a while because you cannot keep it all. No chance.

I HOPE THERE WILL BE THIRD SEASON!

 

[ctg]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctg
The internet survive as long as nothing happens to the root servers, or main cable nods. So if they're connected to the main grid and some of the Nuclear Plants can be operated via the remote control. I believe they can survive with level of technology. Just someone has to be able to maintain those boxes from time to time..........

Sorry but i cannot agree. Just imagine remotely controled nuclear plant it can be just another catastrophe in a row.

Concerning technology, i trust people will be back in medieval times after few generations. More than 90% of population is away, next victims will die soon because fight for resources and because diseses without proper medical care (pneumonia, tetanus, ...). Such population cannot keep the technology. Yes they can use some vehicles and similar stuff but they cannot create a new ones anymore. Technology needs so many specialists and wide background built in a long term plan.

The most important thing is knowledge. Just imagine...first generation of survivors lived in techno world, second one will get some first hand knowledge form people who really knows, but all next following generations will get less and less info and they will get it from people who never saw how the things worked out.

Jarlax, you're right, you need a knowledge base, but you also have to remember that it was the human's that built these things and it's still the humans that wander around the old world technology. The only thing you need to have is the will to learn, rest can be achieved from the written material or learning from the teachers.

What comes to keeping Nuclear Power Plants operational is that you understand how it works and know how to prevent certain catastrophe's from happening. Rest is basic nuts and bolts, and really the monitoring can be done remotely.

So as long as the survivors don't step into an anarchy then everything should be fine. But if they do, then they should guard their knowledge base with any possible means, even if it means at the worse case some sacrifices.

 

[Jardax]

Thank you, CTG.

I love this series because it offers so many themes for thinking.

The virus attack was terrible and bad, but it also giving a chance to start over, to create a better world. But series showing perfectly how weird humans are. Picking the "dark side" is so easy and more comfortable for many of us.

I have mentioned ancient Rome before, i am just thinking what people can do even with access to knowledge. Do you remember what they did with knowledges in medieval ages? Knowledge was evil and heresy those times.

This series is showing so many ways to go... i really like it.

You can be right with power plant control but i visited a nuclear plant and even Nuclear Research Institute, i have to tell it was a strange feeling to have an atomic reactor under my feets. If i saw the teams working there i simply cannot imagine it can be managed by a horde of uneducated people...

 

[Dave]

What comes to keeping Nuclear Power Plants operational is that you understand how it works and know how to prevent certain catastrophe's from happening. Rest is basic nuts and bolts, and really the monitoring can be done remotely.

I think it is a bit more than that - I wasn't only thinking of producing the power itself (a diesel generator could supply you with electricity for a house) but more of telephone lines and electricity lines. Things break down naturally through normal wear and tear. They haven't lived through a winter yet - it would only take one bad storm to knock out substantial parts of the power and communications grid for good (because they have no expertise to even discover the problem let alone find the area and fix it.) If there was a fault underground, do any of them even know how to dig up the cables? The group we follow doesn't seem to want to get their hands dirty, this 'elite' group who have been flown away seem like a lot of middle manager types and even less so. What that 'elite' probably do have is some dedicated secret communication lines between their HQ and Disease Lab. If they have any sense there would have been someone with the right knowledge and expertise to keep that going on the list of people.

However, I would think that slowly, over time things will break down and not get repaired. Replacement parts cannot be ordered, they would need to be made, or something made-do with. The specialist equipment required to make them will not be available, and hand-tooling will never achieve the kind of tolerances that modern machines require. The more complex the equipment the quicker it will fail and the harder to repair it. Mechanical machines will replace Electronic machines. Then hand-powered will replace electric, and so on, until some base level is reached from which they can rebuild again.

Just as one simple example, if I was them then I would much rather be driving a pre-1970's car than a 2010 car. I at least understand what is wrong with the 1970's car when it stops working and I may have a chance of fixing it or jury-rigging it to work. If an exhaust sensor stops working on the 2010 car or the programming in the ECU is corrupted I would be completely stranded. The idea that I can walk until I find another new car, sitting with a full tank of petrol is not going to work for very much longer.

 

[Jardax]

I definitely agree with Dave. Modern industry and society is a large chain.
If you break a few links, entire system will collapse.

 

[Tsujigiri]

Managing a nuclear plant, or any kind of complex set of interrelated machinery without training is likely to be an exercise in failure. Even experts make mistakes (Chernobyl), just think about the number of educated individuals who still struggle to operate a pc.

This series is interesting, but most of the time I find that I have to suppress an urge to stab several of the characters in the eye for their profound stupidity in the face of life threatening danger or inability to grasp the reality of their new situation.

 

[Dave]

This series is interesting, but most of the time I find that I have to suppress an urge to stab several of the characters in the eye for their profound stupidity in the face of life threatening danger or inability to grasp the reality of their new situation.

I actually like the way they keep making plans and then fail to carry them out through their own sheer stupidity. It is so refreshingly like real life.

I hate films where the meticulously planned heist on a bank goes off exactly to the 'best laid' plan. I'm also beginning to tire of "Hustle" where the plan 'appears' to fail, only you find out later that there was a completely different 'better' plan all along.

 

[Tsujigiri]

I suppose that's the basis for my irritation, they are inf act "Real characters" protrayed realistically in the situation.
None have any level of preparation for crisis or situational management, and it is very well acted.

That said, the one character who seems to have that training, the politician is equally irritating....maybe I should watch something else insead

 

[Jardax]

It is funny how much smart all of us are in this forum .

No offence but we plan how to administrate a nuclear plants and other stuff. As many members of such forums are usually IT guys i can imagine the reality can be a bit different.

We can be happy if we catch a fish every day and if we figure out how to get milk of a cow to fill our stomach...

Personally i visited a lake and river with my brother during my childhood and i can tell results are not guaranteed even you have a good rod...without it ...results are nearly impossible...not like in movies and tv where you place a trap (usually hand made) to get a deer after a few minutes

I am just trying to tell many plans must definitely fail in times after similar catastrophe.

 

[ctg]

Jardax. I was talking about the Elite, with having most knowledge and skills in their possession they certainly can operate a nuclear power plant. And in the regards of the survivors, if they want to survive, they will learn quickly on how to fish, hunt and farm if they want to live to the end of their days. It's not a question of 'would they' but when ' they will' learn to do those things.

 

[Jardax]

Concerning elite i guess it will be a group of people with power, money and influence - not people with knowledge as is usual in any society.

 

[Dave]

Original Air Date—16 February 2010

SPOILER: Greg follows a clue as to where his wife may have gone, to an airfield used to ferry out plague survivors. Here Mr.Stevens, who missed the plane and went mad, kills himself. The rest of the group encounter a commune of survivors, living an idyllic self-sufficient life-style, but a mutant strain of the virus hits one of the families, and Sarah, who has quarantined herself in their house to prevent contagion, dies with them. Abby burns the house and the outbreak - spread by birds according to Tom - is contained. Leaving Sally with the commune the other survivors go to Whitaker's lab, where Abby intends to find a cure on her own terms, but the doors are wide open, the trial patients dead and Whitaker is escaping with Peter.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I was bugged about the internet link, but it makes it plain it's a satellite link, which would make total sense.

Was good to see Sarah die because of the way it pushed the story, and showed the writers would and could kill characters off as needed to - I think it's important to think anyone is vulnerable (especially after the way Al survived the hospital collapse in the first episode, which I just could not suspend disbelief for).