A little more Rebecca

[2ndchance]

I’m up for more punishment. Okay, this is a short scene, with a lot of dialogue, but I think it works well. Opinions?

Please, before you tell me that pixies don’t look like this, its fantasy, my fantasy. I am just interested in your overall views. I think, ultimately, the scene is a little sad... but that’s what I intended.

Steve

Just along the shore, Rebecca spotted an old worn path leading into the wood and instinctively took this path. The canopy of the big old conifers was so dense that it created a dark, slightly ominous mood, and feeling a tad uneasy, Rebecca gripped her mum’s hand, and tentatively, led her a little further into the wood. Soon they came across a splattering of fallen branches, intermingled with the biggest toadstools Rebecca had ever seen, creating a positively spooky feel, her senses heightened by a thick, spongy under foot, covering moss that stretched as far as the eye could see in this strange muted light.

‘Crumbs Rebecca, this is very weird, now I could imagine pixies and fairies living here.’

‘You don’t know anything, do you mum? Not the type of place you would get pixies or fairies, they love the sunlight, so they would only be here if they were lost. No, it’s much more likely to be elves, for sure it’s dark enough for them, and then of course you’ve got the bears too.’

‘Okay now you have to explain.’

‘Explain what mum?’

‘The difference between them all, coz I’m lost, I am sure you said elves like elms trees.’

‘Yep, they do prefer elms, but it’s only a preference, I am glad you listened though. So, to the difference, I will explain and sketch you some pictures as we walk along, if I can see that is, ha.’ She pulled a small pad from her rucksack and started doodling. After a few seconds, she held up her pad and said, ‘Right, fairies are gentle, soft creatures that love the sun, especially when it filters through the leaves, but not direct sunlight. Hey, Tinkerbell, she is a fairy.’ She then flipped the page over, doodled and showing her mum said, ‘Okay, pixies they are friendly also, but much more shy. You will mostly see the males; the females stay with the baby’s underground, unless they are playing in the crocus. Right, they are tiny little critter type creatures, very long pointed ears, wear really long pointed hats. They prefer to live under fallen trees, they like the warmth of the sun, but definitely no direct sunlight, it hurts their tiny mole like eyes.’

Her mum took the pad, flicked between the two drawings, and said quietly, ‘hmmm, I see, they are kinda similar but actually quiet different, hmmm.’

Rebecca grabbed the pad, doodled, crossed it out, doodled again, and kept doing this until finally she was happy. ‘Okay now we have elves, they are not nasty, just let us say, perhaps a bit mischievous. If you dropped your pencil, they would keep it. Whereas the others, the fairies, and pixies have an inclination toward being friendly, you would get your pencil back, eventually. The elves on the other hand are differently not what one would call friendly, they’re not nasty, just not interested in humans, not even curious. They look a little like the fairies, a little, but their wings, if they have any, coz they don’t all have them, are more pointed, jagged almost, perhaps like a rose bush, thorny. Then you have the bears.’

Her mum squeezed Rebecca’s hand and said, ‘Okay Bex, I know what bears are like. I must say, I love your tales, but how do you know all this?’

‘I watch them and listen to them. Like I said, keep your eyes, and your mind open. I have to say, I used to see a lot more when I was a little girl. It is hard to focus now; I seem to get distracted more often by other thoughts.’

‘Oh dear Bex, that is sad.’

 

[2ndchance]

I put the wrong first para in...

...Just along the shore, Rebecca spotted an old worn path leading into the wood and instinctively took this path. The dense canopy of the big old conifers created a dark, slightly ominous mood, and feeling a tad uneasy, Rebecca gripped her mum’s hand, and tentatively, led her a little further into the wood. Soon they came across a scattering of fallen branches, intermingled with the biggest toadstools Rebecca had ever seen, creating a positively spooky feel, her senses heightened by a thick, spongy under foot, covering of moss that stretched as far as the eye could see in this strange muted light.

 

[Peter Graham]

'Ey up.

It's not bad at all. I think you are getting better at the whole narrative voice, but you really need to watch your sentence structure. You sometimes use words in slightly the wrong way and you have a tendency towards writing long, unconnected sentences which often ramble about a little too much and end with a bang, not a whimper.

I know you don't find words easy, so keep each sentence crisp and to the point.

Imagine you are in an episode of "Just a Minute". You need to avoid deviation, repetition and hesitation:-

Just along the shore, Rebecca spotted an old worn path leading into the wood and instinctively took this path.

"Repetition of path, Nicholas!"

"Yes. A point to Paul, who now takes the subject."

The canopy of the big old conifers was so dense that it created a dark, slightly ominous mood, and feeling a tad uneasy, Rebecca gripped her mum’s hand, and tentatively, led her a little further into the wood.

"Deviation! He starts talking about the conifers, which is a bit of decription. Then he talks about Rebecca taking Mum in by the hand, which is a bit of action. The two concepts haven't been mashed up enough, so this might work better as two separate sentences."

"Yes. One point to Sue Perkins who now has the subject."

Soon they came across a splattering of fallen branches, intermingled with the biggest toadstools Rebecca had ever seen, creating a positively spooky feel, her senses heightened by a thick, spongy under foot, covering moss that stretched as far as the eye could see in this strange muted light.

"Why aye, Nicholas. Deviation again. He changes tense midway through this sentence (creating should be created) and the sentence is far too long. It would work better as two - one to describe the wood and the toadstools and one to describe the mossy carpet. And he doesn't need underfoot - that's implied in spongy. And he should perhaps show us how it's spooky, rather than just telling us that it is."

"Point to Ross Noble."

- ‘Crumbs Rebecca, this is very weird, now I could imagine pixies and fairies living here.’

"Lack of hesitation. Should be a comma after Crumbs. And possibly a full stop after wierd."

"Correct challenge, Sue."

‘You don’t know anything, do you mum?

"Lack of hesitation again, Nicholas. Needs to be a comma after you." "Do you" is a little subclause that could be removed in its entirety without affecting the meaning of the sentence. So it needs a comma at both ends to denote that."

‘The difference between them all, coz I’m lost, I am sure you said elves like elms trees.’

Deviation. Coz is slang for because. It can be used to denote an accent or a turn of phrase, but needs an apostrophe to denote the missing letters - 'coz.

And Elm is the singular of elms."

‘Yep, they do prefer elms, but it’s only a preference,

"Repetition of prefer."

I am glad you listened though. So, to the difference, I will explain and sketch you some pictures as we walk along, if I can see that is, ha.’

"Lack of hesitation. Ha is being used to denote a little exclamation of some sort. It probably needs an exclamation mark."

She then flipped the page over, doodled and showing her mum said

"Tense change (flipped/doodled to showing. Should be showed). Needs a comma after mum, or the said sticks to it like s*** to a blanket and potentially changes the meaning of the whole sentence."

"One point for a correct challenge, Paul, and one bonus point for getting a laugh with the blanket image."

You will mostly see the males; the females stay with the baby’s underground,

"Why aye! Incorrect apostrophe use. Please report for extermination! Plural of baby is babies. Baby's is possessive - it means "something belonging to one baby"."

unless they are playing in the crocus.

"Deviation! Plural of crocus is croci."

"Strictly speaking you are right, but most people (including most teenage girls) aren't classically educated bores like you, so we let this one go. Subject remains with Ross Noble."

Ping!

"Time's up! And at the end of the game, we can say that we really like the pace and Rebecca's description of the faeires. It provides good background character information without info dumping and without telling. We know from this little exchange that she is a bright but slightly introspective dreamer. A first class piece of character exposition. And Clement Freud wins as usual, even though he's unfortunately dead."

Regards,

Nicholas Parsons

 

[2ndchance]

Thanx Nicholas, and by the way, tell your sister to stop climbing trees, actually don't he-he.

I try so damned hard to get this write-right. The points you've made are so obvious, retrospectively, so much so, they jump out the page and grab me round the throat.

In all seriousness, I can see them so easily now, and feel foolish having not spotted them before.

The good news, I have learnt to go through my chapters methodically, with said toothcomb and as we stand, I have put 14 chapters to bed with a tick. The little scene here was a first-ish draft and Steve must learn to stop, look and listen before I slam-dunk it on here.

The only thing I will debate, is your referance to a tence change, "she then flipped over the page, doodled, and showing her mum, said,"
My understanding is that if you start it with past continuous or perfect or even simple, as is the case here(?), you can jump tense for the matter of continuity or flow?? For example, "she walked through the field and as the long billowing grass brushed against her legs, she smiled contently." Please correct me if I am wrong here, however my personal view is that I dont want too many 'ed's' i.e walked, jumped, fished, kicked and staggered, if you have all those ed's it makes it almost impossible to preceade her comments with said. You can, of course, but it sounds clunky to me.

Overall thanks Pete ol' chap.

Steve

 

[The Judge]

The only thing I will debate, is your referance to a tence change, "she then flipped over the page, doodled, and showing her mum, said,"

I agree with you, Steve. Provided you have the commas in place I think this is correct, as the showing is a kind of continuous action. Having said that, it isn't a particularly elegant way of expressing it, so you might be better re-thinking it.

For example, "she walked through the field and as the long billowing grass brushed against her legs, she smiled contently."

You're confusing your parts of speech again. 'Billowing' here describes the grass (a noun), so is an adjective; 'contentedly' modifies 'smiled' (a verb) so is an adverb (the -ly, remember, is the big clue). I can see why you've confused the 'billowing' because of the -ing ending, and indeed if the sentence was 'the long grass was billowing in the wind' then there it is acting as a verb. Remember, it's what they do which counts. But after all that, frankly 'billowing' isn't the right word anyway - it is used for things like smoke which is an large eddying mass, or for cloth which fills with air and similarly eddies and curls around.

While I'm in a picky mood, Mr Parsons is right about 'croci', both that it is a plural and that only a pedant would use it, but in his haste to finish the game forgot to say that your use of 'crocus' is still wrong (unless they are playing in the one flower), so you need 'crocuses'. Mind you, I think his pedant-drive was set too high in criticising the unapostrophed 'coz': my dictionary gives it as a valid alternative spelling to 'cos', which is accepted both with and without an apostrophe. But, Steve, while Rebecca would use this contraction, don't you think her mum ought to be speaking just a little more correctly? At the moment there is no differentiation in language between the two - so you need to develop this. By the way, when I refer to 'her mum', I use a lower case 'm', but I think that when Rebecca speaks to her mother she should use upper case, ie 'Mum'; in the same way one would say 'she's visiting her aunt' but 'let's go see Aunt Peggy'.

As Peter has said, there are commas missing all over the place, and I think a judicious use of full stops and separate sentences would indeed help things. You do go overboard with adjectives and adverbs, and I don't think that many of them are particularly helpful here. You also need to think about word use more. You repeatedly use the verb 'doodle' - but surely what she is actually doing is drawing or sketching? A doodle is more a very rough thing, drawn without a lot of conscious effort or thought.

Getting there, though.

 

[2ndchance]

Great points J, thanks as always.

Okay, her mum tends to copy R's speech pattern when they are together and R tends to push this issue as she tries relentlessly to suck her mum into her world. That said, when James is about, she takes on an umming and erring, submissive tone, and then with Tom, she's much more assertive. Remember Liz has lost her identity, which, you may recall ends tragically. BTW, I say coz to my son and he's just finishing his masters in Human Geography, fault mamangement, and looks like he's nailed a job in Calafornia, working on the Andreas Fault Team. I am so PROUD, I could cry, well, I have actually, sevearl times, hence the silly mood... And boy oh boy I am going to miss him soooooooo much... FFS, tissue. He is my best friend.

Thanks for the crocuses, they look lovely billowing on the table next to my cigerette smoke thats swaying around the room in the gentle breeze. Sorry J, I'm being funny, felt like that all day, coz I is goin' fishin' tmrw and I is lovin me fishing, as you well know.

Steve X

 

[Boneman]

Hi Steve,

(Up the 'ammers! But we won't mention Burnley)

Without sounding superior in any way, I'm impressed with how much your writing has improved, and this piece was very enjoyable to read, you're really 'showing' so well - when I think back to the spaceship, with the incredible amount of 'telling', I am pretty envious that you've not only taken it (on board??? Ursa made say that...) but have applied it so well. I wrote my first draft in 2006, and I'm still trying to get it right. Even when I think I've done that, I find more to change. Maybe I'll start a thread 'When are you satisfied with your work?'

So, the piece in question: Peter picked up on a lot of points with pickled pepper, so I'll just go over a coupla things. Do you see Rebecca as quite middle-class, or does she support Millwall? It's just that her languge is very correct:

Not the type of place you would get pixies or fairies, they love the sunlight, so they would only be here if they were lost.

Not the type of place you'd get pixies or fairies, they love the sunlight, so they'd only be here if they were lost. Sounds more like teenage speak. It's only a small nitpick, and it's one I'm often guilty of and I support the Seagulls - no idea how middle class they are, but I suppose 1-1 away to the orient wasn't bad, when you consider we're firmly just in the relegation zone! Back to the writing.

I am glad you listened though

I'm glad you listened, though. Of course you could be emphasising the word 'am'...

I will explain and sketch you some pictures as we walk along

I'll explain.

Hey, Tinkerbell, she is a fairy

she's a fairy

You will mostly see the males; the females stay with the baby’s underground, unless they are playing in the crocus. Right, they are tiny little critter type creatures,

Actually I'm sure Rebecca would say crocuses, too. I would... You'll mostly see the males; the females stay with the babies underground, unless they're playing in the crocus. Right, they're tiny little critter-type creatures,

Okay now we have elves, they are not nasty, just let us say, perhaps a bit mischievous. If you dropped your pencil, they would keep it.

Okay now we have elves, they're not nasty, just let's say, perhaps a bit mischievous. If you dropped your pencil, they'd keep it.

pixies have an inclination toward being friendly, you would get your pencil back, eventually

Now this one sounds fine, because it's an emphasis 'you would get your pencil back eventually.' But if it's not an emphasis, then 'you'd get you pencil back eventually' sounds more natural.

The elves on the other hand are differently not what one would call friendly, they’re not nasty, just not interested in humans, not even curious

I think that should be 'definitely not what one would call friendly' but you have used 'they're not nasty' which sounds completely natural...

And that's it. We're all pointing out small things, so it shows your writing is going in the write direction (Ursa made me do that...)

How'd the fishing go??

 

[chrispenycate]

Actually, I see no reason to think the plural of "crocus" is "croci", just because the word has Greek origins. After all, the plural of 'octopus' is 'octopodes' and the floral plural is not marked in my dictionary (which cites most of the irregulars).

Would "contentedly" not be better than "contently" (a word which grates on my sensitivities)? Ah, I observe that The Judge made the correction automatically.

You will mostly see the males; the females stay with the baby’s underground,


"Why aye! Incorrect apostrophe use. Please report for extermination! Plural of baby is babies. Baby's is possessive - it means "something belonging to one baby".

Perhaps "the baby's underground" is a subversive organisation. If not, and the mothers really do remain subterranean with their offspring, there should be a comma after "babies".

 

[Peter Graham]

Hi Steve

The only thing I will debate, is your referance to a tence change, "she then flipped over the page, doodled, and showing her mum, said,"

I have looked at this again and I think that you and the Judge are right. In my rush to help* think I was probably being a bit too picky and a bit too ready to assume I'd picked up an error. My apologies - I hope I haven't confused you.

The crocus thing has really got me thinking, though. My guess was that it was a Latinate form of a Greek word (the "us" ending is a giveaway - the Greek would generally be "os"). The web proudly proclaims that any one of croci, crocuses or even crocus is the correct plural (can't find crocodes as yet!), but as the web also proudly proclaims any amount of nonsense about paganism, homeopathy, ley-lines and the healing powers of crystals, I don't think that gets us very far.

I therefore propose that we have an interactive, online seance, during which we summon up the spirit of my deceased Classics teacher, "Mothball" McLaughlin. If successful, not only will we get the answer, but we will also be treated to his joke** and perhaps a judicious selection of Martial's epigrams. If we wish to bring the seance to a swift conclusion, we need only mention that the alma mater has merged with the Gels School, at which point Mothball will no doubt call up Agricola, Pompey, Crassus and G. Julius Caesar and burn the old place to the ground.

Regards,

Peter

* For which read "in my rush to show off..."

** A Greek poet goes into the seamstress' shop with a pair of torn trousers.

"Euripedes?" says the shop assistant.

"Yes", he replies. "Eumenides".

I know, I know. But it's not our fault that there is no longer an Indian Civil Service manned entirely by chaps called Sebastian.

 

[Karn Maeshalanadae]

Yet another mother who doesn't believe her own daughter.


It seemed to do fairly well as an opening scene. I'm making no comment on how Rebecca described the creatures because, as 2nd said, it IS his fantasy.


But I felt the whole toadstools part was just a little too cliche for my personal taste. Once again, matter of opinion. However, I do have to say that while it works well as an opener, I really can't see how this could actually go anywhere, unless either the mother or daughter get taken by elves, and that just seems a little too far out there. There's no comment to be made on grammar and punctuation, everything looked fine to me on that front.

 

[The Judge]

Aha! Crocus Vernus and fellows** - Let Battle Commence!

My dictionary does give 'croci' as well as 'crocuses', but not 'crocus' as a plural. It definitely has Greek antecedants -- according to my RHS tome, it comes from krokas meaning thread, alluding to the stigmas -- (though apparently the word itself may well be of Semitic origin) and again my dictionary says it's come via Latin into late Middle English when it was initially also used for the spice, saffron (which, of course, comes from the species crocus sativus). I'll leave it to Mothball McLaughlin's ghost to decide if that is sufficient to invoke the 'i' ending in the plural.

Steve, even if 'crocus' is a valid plural, it isn't one in common use and since this is in Rebecca's POV you should use her language as far as possible (but not to the extent of using a wrong word, even if she is ignorant of the real one).

** perhaps we should interrogate Steve as to which of the 80 species he is imagining... (or just tell him to choose another flaming flower!)

Would "contentedly" not be better than "contently" (a word which grates on my sensitivities)? Ah, I observe that The Judge made the correction automatically.

A case of reading what I thought it said, and not what it actually said, I'm afraid!

But it's not our fault that there is no longer an Indian Civil Service manned entirely by chaps called Sebastian.

Actually, great-great- (perhaps another great or two) uncle was Charles (or Carlos Modesto in the original). An exception to the Sebastian rule, no doubt.

 

[2ndchance]

Dyslexic or not, I am loving this...

Thanks for the kind words. Right to it...

Change the flowers, cant happen, because it's showing January, rather than telling it's January. Hmmm, how about daffs, but then we wouldnt have the array of colour you get with all the types of crocuses.

On that point, I suspect it could be like fish, which could be fishes, unless you're an angler and if you said fishes someone would kick you!!! Hard.

Seriously though, I suspect, fish and crocus could be similar. For me crocus sounds less clunky, that said, I have changed it to crocuses... I fished alll night and failed in my attempt to catch any fish, not fishes. Or he fishes for fish, na' he goes fishing for fish. Hmmm again.

I think, commas aside, I am actually gettin g somewhere, certainly going by your comments. And there was me thinking, blood-stone-compliments, dare I say, I was wrong. My point is, that since the perverbial penny dropped (ish) I am flying through and am so pleased with, it all. You know it is down to you guys. I mean that, the way you have explained things to me, perhaps allowing for my word issues has taken me forward so quickly and now I have retired (at 52-dont say it) I will have more time to complete this tale.

One last thing Boneman, she's a scouse (mickey-mouse) hence all the ain't' and they'll etc, although I do mix it up a bit to avoid repotition.

One question, opinion's on a postcard please. Rebecca travels to 1858, 1942, with the land-girls, and the final journey is back home the day they moved in. Right, theres a third jaunt, currently to 1723, but its boring and a little political, so I was thinking of changing it to 1911, just before 1st world war. Thoughts????

Steve. I love you all and you will be mentioned in the front sheet when its published.

 

[2ndchance]

Let me explain the scouse thing, opinion. My sons girlfriend, is from cheshire and although she has a scouse twang, she speaks well. What she does do though, is jump about a little, when she is speaking normally she says every word correctly, until that is, she is in hurry-up mode or a tad excited, and then she starts chopping words together, some I ain't 'urd b4. (sorry, thought I was txtin' me m8). I have listened carefully to her and asked her if she minded me recording waht she said.

Hmmm

Steve X