Mass Effect 2

Cayal

The Immortal Prince
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Already generating massive reviews (early average of 97 on metacritic) Mass Effect 2 promises to deliver an exceptional RPG experience and top the previously awesome (IMO) Mass Effect.

Any one else planning on getting this on 360 or PC? It is released this week for most places.

Personally I loved the first and I will definitely be getting the second.
 
I never expected the game to be released in time for a change, so I STILL have not finished ME1 (I'm a PC gamer and the PC port was released a long time after the console ed's were released) which I was planning to do before ME2 so I could import my character.

I somehow lost steam with the first game, but by most reports I've seen so far, the second game is better than the first, so maybe I should push Div2 aside for a bit and quickly finish ME1.

ME1 became a lot cheaper after a while, so I was plannning to wait for that to happen with ME2, but since the reviews are so good, I'm starting to feel torn about this...
 
It's on my list of games to buy but I have plenty I haven't finished yet so I'll hold off for a bit. Looks very good though and I like the idea of your character choices from ME1 filtering down into ME2 (allegedly).
 
It was confirmed you can use your character from ME1 or you can start afresh.
 
Yes, but even though one can start afresh, I think one would lose out a bit perhaps, in the sense of continuity and of knowing exactly where the plot is going/coming from.
Since I also have plenty yet to finish, (like Batman Arkham As., King Arthur, Divinity 2, Call of Juarez BIB, Darkfall 3 Lost Souls, Diabolique, King's Bounty, some Fallout 3 DLC, etc.) I might survive waiting it out a bit as well.

You can come and make us envious, Cayal. :p
 
I've ordered it. It sounds like it will be as good or better than ME1 and I look forward to seeing how they work the backstory from 1 into 2, particularly as you could kill several of the team characters who are in ME2. I hope that there is more about the Migrant Fleet.
 
Yes, but even though one can start afresh, I think one would lose out a bit perhaps, in the sense of continuity and of knowing exactly where the plot is going/coming from.
Since I also have plenty yet to finish, (like Batman Arkham As., King Arthur, Divinity 2, Call of Juarez BIB, Darkfall 3 Lost Souls, Diabolique, King's Bounty, some Fallout 3 DLC, etc.) I might survive waiting it out a bit as well.

You can come and make us envious, Cayal. :p

I believe I read they do a bit of a 'Last time on Mass Effect...' thing where it summarises the previous game.

I don't know if I will get it release day, I have Dragon Age to complete first.
 
The commercials on TV are driving me insane! I want so much to get this game but I can't afford it right now! And every single time I see one of them damn commercials it makes me want to go buy it anyway, even though if I do it would make me broke! lol
 
I just finished ME2, Rahl--wait until ME3 comes out and buy them both at the same time cuz it left me with a big cliffhanger.

Stupid writers.

Now I don't think I'll be able to wait for ME3. I think I'm just going to go rob the studio!

PS: I am watching the credits right now. Martin Sheen played the Illusive Man and Seth Green plays Joker! I did not know that!
 
I'm in the same boat Rahl, I can't wait to get my hands on it but I have so much to play I am waiting...
 
I just finished ME2, Rahl--wait until ME3 comes out and buy them both at the same time cuz it left me with a big cliffhanger.

Stupid writers.

Now I don't think I'll be able to wait for ME3. I think I'm just going to go rob the studio!

PS: I am watching the credits right now. Martin Sheen played the Illusive Man and Seth Green plays Joker! I did not know that!


Yes I have been following this game since I played ME1 and I already knew about the actors playing some of the roles, like Martin Sheen. I do believe the guy who plays Saul Tigh in Battlestar Galactica, Michael Hogan, is also in there somewhere along with some others from the Battlestar Galactica series. Voice acting should be really good but then again Bioware games always have great voice overs.
 
I think the ME series has taken the first step in merging movies, books and games. I really, really hope the gaming industry will keep moving in this direction... and progressively abandon the "kill everything that moves" part, which I find rather boring to be honest.
 
I can see ME3 becoming one of those online MMORPG games. That way they get to bleed more money out of us each month. :)
 
I think the ME series has taken the first step in merging movies, books and games. I really, really hope the gaming industry will keep moving in this direction... and progressively abandon the "kill everything that moves" part, which I find rather boring to be honest.
Bioware hooked me with the twist in the KOTOR story, but I was wary of the ME games because the only shooter I'd ever played was Ghost Recon. It took me quite a while to get used targeting on the XBox and I was glad that ME and ME2 were not totally games to "kill everything that moves", as poisonousteas said.

There were some great aspects to ME and ME2. I very much liked actually hearing Shepherd's voice during conversations... Revan's voice was absent from KOTOR and the Grey Warden's was very conspicuously absent from Dragon Age. I found the Krogan amusing, the Asari interesting, the Turians annoying, the Quarians enigmatic, and I was thrilled that I was not forced to take on any Salarians or Volus in the first game. Though, I must admit, I highly enjoyed the Salarian in the second game... I just wish I could have convinced him to develop a Genophage for the Volus.

I found the minigame of Simon highly annoying. I saved before each minigame and found that I had more than enough money very quickly. I was thrilled they changed out Simon for Memory and a reverse version of the very first handheld electronic game, Mattel Auto Race. (I had Mattel Classic Football and my brother had Mattel Auto Race... and we played them until my father took them away because he could not stand the sounds anymore.) Just when I got the hang of handling the Mako, they took it out of ME2. Natch.

ME2 says you can port your original Shepherd over. This is not strictly correct. My Shepherd had a horrific scar. You remember the very first one of the scar collection... He was a War Hero after all. Anyway, that scar did not port... and for me, that was my Shepherd's most attractive feature to Ashley. Yes, I know Shepherd had more surgery than Steve Austin, but the scar was gone even before the Normandy.

The game did not have a "Luke, I am your father moment" nor a "Revan, I was your apprentice" moment, but the story still carried the game... and not the killing. "Luke, I am your father" was a big deal to me because I was only a kid and the internet did not exist.

Liara was good to go from her second conversation... I enjoyed cooling her engines. But I had a problem with her story... SPOILER ALERT... A certain someone was dead by the time Shepherd met Liara and Liara never said a thing about it... and that was weird.

Kaiden, we hardly knew ye.

Wrex.... It was a very near thing. But the character's name is Shepherd and he took care of his flock.

Garrus was the character with whom Shepherd can indulge in a bit of extra civil justice. Okay, I'll just call them vigilantes.

Tali the duck girl. Grow up already. I loved her bumbling excuses when I shut her down in ME2. But I think she should have gone ballistic when Legion joined the crew and not when he downloaded her fleet's schematics. And I blew the story there... I should not have talked her down... I should have encouraged her... but I was curious as to how Legion would play out.

Jack. What to say about Jack? I felt sorry for her. I wanted to help her. She'd only been used and abused her entire life and I wanted Shepherd to give her a chance to be a hero and find redemption. But somehow the conversation choice, "Jack, let's talk about us." was completely sexual in nature and destroyed my friendship with her. The last I saw of Jack, she was on her way to becoming Sarah Kerrigan's twin sister.

Jacob. I was so glad his conversations never went weird like Dragon Age's did with Zevran. Forget the Justicar, forget Thane, forget Jack, and even lovely Miranda, I knew I wanted Jacob at the last battle from the get go. After all of Miranda's baggage, Jack's crap, Solus' experiments, and Ashley's anger, Shepherd needed a fighter to take down the giant terminator. Admittedly, I was shocked that Jacob never made any excuses for his father.

At which point I must say that the writers for ME and ME2 must have serious issues with either their fathers or their children. Thane and Samara have problems with their children while Solus and Garrus both have problems with their former assistants, i.e. surrogate children. Though I never found if Kaiden had a problem with anyone, he is voiced by Raphel Sbarge who also voiced Carth Onassi in KOTOR... Carth had major problems with his son. Liara, Ash, Jacob, Tali, Miranda, Jacob and Grunt all have issues with one parent or another. And Jack's problem is that she never had a father.

Thane is an interesting character. Not very plausible, but interesting. I guess the writers get away with it by saying he is an alien with alien cultural mores.

Samara. A holy warrior without morals... and definitely the largest breasted Asari in the galaxy.

Morinth. I went back and just replayed the scene at Morinth's... that's the closest to "Luke, I am your father" that I found in the story.

Grunt was the character after Jacob that I knew I had to have for the final battle. I liked that he had a smaller hump and different head plates than Wrex. Both he and Wrex convinced me that the Genohage was the greatest medical discovery.... ever. Which leads me to...

Mordin Solus. I loved this guy. If you did not discover his singing talents, you must either replay the game or click on this youtube link. If you never saw The Pirates of Penzance, then search some more on youtube something along the lines of modern major general.

I've spoken to two other people who've played ME and ME2 and I think I am in the minority of people who found that the Genophage was the humane solution to the Krogan problem. I loved that Solus was involved in secretly re-incubating the Krogan with and improved Genophage.

Legion. Um... he and the whole Geth civil split were major developments. I should have let Tali...

Ashley. Hmmmm. I, not Shepherd, was irate at her hostility in ME2. How could she do this? That was good story telling.

Miranda. On looks, she wins hands down. But she's soooo repressed.

But perhaps the best part of the story was doing the one mission with Joker. Excellent. Guiding the cripple through the apocalypse was great fun.

There were a few bugs. I've seen at leasts four places where Shepherd can wander right off the floor and up into the air. That was highly annoying. Save often. Also, my first final fight in ME2 bugged out by not allowing me to target, hit, damage, or destroy the final tube. I emptied every weapon into it, twice, to no avail after downing the first three in quick succession. On the second play through, which I had to do all the way from landing on the Collector Base, I defeated the final boss... but it was compounded by trying to make the story come out the same. (If you've finished, you'll know what I mean.)

I think a male Shepherd can romance... SPOILER ALERT... Liara, Ash, Jack, Miranda, Samara, Tali, Morinth, and Kelly. While this adds to the story, I'd like to see other romances in a story like this. What about Captain Anderson and the Consort? Or Samara and Thane? Joker and Kelly? Chief Navigator Pressly and Doctor Chakwas? Garrus and Liara? What if Jacob and Miranda were still a couple when Shepherd met them? I'd love to see that love triangle play out.

The tension between the Alliance military and the rest of Citadel Space gets personified nicely between Shepherd and the Council... both pre and post Sovereign.

One other nagging issue in ME2, I ended up with a lot more resources than I ever needed. I started by depleting every planet, but found I could have just stopped at moderate on most planets.

Also, just for fun, launch some probes into the Alliance home planets... It's childish, but humorous.
 
Also, just for fun, launch some probes into the Alliance home planets... It's childish, but humorous.

yes, hilarious. mostly because of how unexpected EDI's comment is. and how unlike most of the ME2 humour it is.

I agree with your take on Thane too. Not plausible, but interesting...

But Jacob... talk about the most boring squadmate in the entire game... sometimes i don't even do his mission... and secretly hope he doesn't survive Hold the Line (tho since i loyal up all the others, he does, but still theres a vague chance he could die)

Ashley though... I dunno... considering how many playthroughs i've completed of ME and ME2... i think Ash survived Virmire only ONCE for story's sake only... i can't stand bigots. and as deep as you can go with her, even her realisation that aliens aren't that bad is bigotted.

Question Boaz... how did your squad fare whilst you were battling the "giant terminator" without two of the strongest Hold The Line rated squadies?
 
dg, I guess that I did not state that I play these games in Casual mode. Plus I put the target assist as high as it will go and I put the squad power use to full auto. I fully admit that most people would call that "Care Bear" mode. But to me it's about following a story, not about quickfingerbuttonmashing. I want Shepherd to be the hero. I don't want to succeed at ME only by having six years of prior XBox experience.

For example, the Benezia fight in ME was the toughest, in my opinion. Even on the friendliest and easiest settings, it took me eight or nine times to beat her. (Once again, I admit that I'm slow and inexperienced with console shooters.) My issue is that I don't remember Shepherd being the hero of Noveria. My memory is of Shepherd getting gunned down repeatedly by Asari Commandos. Eight deaths versus one win... ouch.

How many boss fails can be erased by one success? In my case, it's only about two. Three to four can sour the believability of the story for me. And double digit deaths will effectively end the story for me.

I don't find any thrill in knowing the power combos. I do not enjoy knowing that the key to winning the fight is memorize the proper sequence... A, A, A, A, X, Y, B, A, X, X, X, LT, X, RB, Y, A, AXRTLTAXBYAAAAABAAA... I really don't like pausing the combat every three seconds to fire off my squad's powers. If I must pause, then I'll do so to heal or switch guns. Am I playing Shepherd? Or am I playing God?

If I'm playing Shepherd, then I control which guns Shepherd uses and when he uses his abilities. If I'm playing Shepherd, then Jack and Jacob should select when to use their powers. I don't like the God mode. I like to see the story unfold. I like to talk to the TV after fights and say, "Miranda, thanks for the help" or "Jacob, where were you? Thanks for nothing."

I think this stems from my background with miniature wargaming. Warhammer is the most popular game of this type. Warhammer has a major problem... as a player I control all levels of play... Commander in Chief, Brigade Leader, Company Commander, Squad Leader, and Unit Champion. In no way does this accurately reflect the overall structure of how decisions are made upon the battlefield. Should the CinC decide when the infiltrated unit attacks the flank? Should a Unit Champion decide upon which units make up the army? Should a Sergeant decide when the entire army advances? No... to all of the questions. But since the player is all of the above characters, one person is effectively personally controlling every aspect of the army. To avoid this, one must have a system that confines the player to a specific role as General or Private... or one must have self-control to more accurately represent command structure.

If I really was Shepherd, I could not force Jacob to throw people through the air. I could ask him and I could hope he'd throw people like skeet for me to shoot, but I could not force him. ME allows me to force him or to hope... and I choose to hope.

dg, my aplogies to take so long to get to the point of this post...

Question Boaz... how did your squad fare whilst you were battling the "giant terminator" without two of the strongest Hold The Line rated squadies?
Is there a way to check ratings "in game" or are they rated online? I don't want to know anything "out of game" regarding damage, armor, or ratings of my squad. That information will probably change my story dramatically.

My Shepherd is a Spacer/War Hero/Soldier. So going in to the biggest fight, he wants teammates with the heaviest armor, biggest guns, and highest morale. I might have chosen Samara, but I needed her to escort the crew back to the Normandy... I figured if anyone could solo that, it'd be Samara.

SPOILER ALERT for ME2.

Other considerations for the "giant terminator"...

Mission Loyalty. I did all the quests, so all the squad was loyal to Shepherd. But I suspected that conditions might change and their loyalty might be put to the test. I suspected both Miranda, Jacob, and Mordin might assign a substantial monetary/research value to the Collector Base. Since I liked Mordin and Shepherd romanced Miranda, I did not want to have to shoot them. I'd feel bad about shooting a good soldier, but the bottom line is that Jacob was more expendable. Neither Jack nor Legion made it to the final fight... but I'd have mistrusted them completely with mission success on the line.

The Future. I wondered if the final fight might conclude with the destruction of the Collector Base and the deaths of Shepherd and his two squadmates. If so, I wanted Thane to see his son, Samara to find peace, Miranda to see her sister, Mordin to continue to keep the Krogan in line, Tali to lead the Quarians, and for Garrus to let the Turians know that humanity can be trusted. As for Jacob, you called him "the most boring squadmate in the entire game" and I cannot disagree, but he's also an altruist and so I felt I could sacrifice him. And as for Grunt, he's got the possibility to lead the Krogan as a powerful warlord... so he was definitely expendable.

As for Ashley... my take was that the harrowing experiences of ME threw Shepherd and Ash together despite a few incompatibilities. First, Ash is bigoted. That's undisputable. But consider these aliens... The Rachni tried to exterminate all life in the galaxy. The Krogan betrayed their allies and tried to at least enslave the galaxy, if not kill everyone. Every Batarian in the game is a slaver. The Volus are twice as predjudiced as any human could ever be. The Turians accuse incessantly. The Collectors are controlled by the Reapers who are bent upon eradicating all life. And the Asari can use mind control.

Bringing out moral questions is what makes for a great story. Finding that balance between bigotry and blindness is difficult... Jesus told his followers of this very quandary, "Be wise as serpents and innocent as doves."

The second incompatibility is that Shepherd is her commanding officer. In the military, that is a cardinal sin. Really, Shepherd is committing career suicide if he romances Ashley.

Besides killing things and getting vengeance upon Saren, what do Ashley and Shepherd have in common? Well, my Shepherd did like her Tennyson quotes.

And so, Ashley's hostility in ME2 launched Shepherd into the... uh... err... the ummm..... the arms... yeah that's it, the arms of Miranda.

Which leads to all the real difficulties of romance in ME. Ash: bigoted, junior officer. Liara: alien, mind control. Miranda: self-centered, other loyalties, fake body. Samara: big age difference, alien sense of justice, mind control. Tali: hero worship, biologically incompatible, underage? Jack: sexually abused, mentally abused, never had any positive role models, sociopath, an emotional wreck. Kelly: junior officer, hero worship, gossip?

It's a minefield.

I'd love to know what you guys thought of the morality of the Genophage. I'd also like to know what you did with the Rachni Queen and what you decided on Virmire.
 
Because I played ME2 on PS3 (and because I didn't buy it new and get the chance to play through the 'Genesis' comic that lets PS3 players make the most important choices from the first game), the Rachni Queen is dead in my game, and so is Urdnot Wrex. I feel like I would have allowed both to live, had I been able to choose.

As for the genophage, I find it hard to adopt an absolute moral position; it depends on whose perspective I adopt, and even from a human point of view, I can argue both for and against it. During Mordin's loyalty mission in ME2, I advised him to keep the data Maelon had accrued toward developing a cure, my primary reason being that it it seemed Mordin himself regretted his part in the genophage and desired the opportunity to right what he saw as a wrong. Perhaps this suggests that my own position is closer to his than to a belief that the genophage was truly right. I have sympathy for the Krogan (except when they're charging at me, formidable opponents as they are).

In the end, I'm not sure I can justify their extinction in order to assuage the other races' fear of a new Krogan War. It was the Citadel Council that precipitated the Krogan population surge in the aftermath of the Rachni Wars, after all, and although they were not responsible for the Krogan aggression, nor do I think the Krogan were entirely culpable. Did they anticipate the population explosion following their settlement of other worlds gifted to them, and did they know how their society would respond? Even if they did, it seems excessive that they be damned to extinction because of their innate belligerence and they way it informed their quest to secure space for further expansion. In the end, I think the genophage was necessary but not right. I hold that the Krogan are not beyond redemption, and that they should be afforded the opportunity to prove they can coexist with the other races, rather than be doomed to extinction for acting according to their nature in circumstances that spiralled beyond their control.

Perhaps a complete reversal of the genophage would be a step too far, but a 'cure' that allows them at least to reach replacement-level fertility seems just to me.

==================================================

At any rate, I find your comments regarding how you play the game fascinating, Boaz. In many ways you're at the opposite end of the spectrum from me, yet we both get what we want out of the experience. I played ME2 (and will play ME3 when it comes out) on Insanity mode. I enjoy the challenge of the highest difficulty setting -- the knowledge that a few bullets from any enemy might kill me and the necessity of using the environment to its utmost and fighting tactically. I get a huge adrenaline rush during those desperate moments when it seems I am about to be overwhelmed, and a great sense of satisfaction after emptying my last clip into Harbinger just as he's about to 'tear me apart', only to see him finally die. As an avid gamer, I enjoy FPS games as well as RPGs, and am only too happy to draw on my years of Playstation (in my case) experience.

But what you said made me think about the role I am playing in these 'role-playing' games. You seem to have a very pure approach to this. You are playing the role of Shepard, and anything that makes you feel you have stepped outside of this role breaks the immersion for you.

So what am I doing? I suppose I'm doing two things simultaneously. Part of me is very consciously playing as myself against the video game. There's a metafictional aspect to the way I approach it, undoubtedly. But am I also playing the story more than the character? It's not that I don't place myself in Shepard's boots when I'm playing, but I am happy to take as full control of other squad members as I am given. Maybe I'm just playing as Team Protagonist? On the other hand, maybe I see using squad powers as a shorthand for their following commands that Shepard has given (he is their commander, after all, and his job in battle is, well, to command)? To be honest, I hadn't really attempted to deconstruct it until now, but it's interesting.

My background in gaming is as a lifelong player of video games of many different genres and platforms, and, for me, once I've learned a game's controls, it becomes a reflex thing, something I don't have to think about. The 'L2' button is not the 'L2' button: it's the trigger of my gun. I'm completely immersed. For me, what lessens the believability is if I am able to waltz through an area without staying in cover or thinking carefully about how to proceed, simply blowing each of my enemies away with a few well-placed shots. And, somehow, dying doesn't matter to me. Those deaths didn't happen. They're alternate futures, things that might have been had the waveform collapsed in a different way, but they're not part of my experience. They vanish and are forgotten. Only what went before and what comes after remains. In this way, I only remember Shepard being the hero, even if it took him twenty times to get it right.

Ultimately, we both maintain immersion and follow the story in a way that affords us maximum enjoyment, and yet our philosophies could hardly be more different. Which is cool.
 

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