I'm finally published...

[TheEndIsNigh]

Mercs:

So how does this thing work.

You say the first twenty copies or so have gone. What do you have to do to get more - I know it's going to involve cash but from an information point of view how does lulu (or whoever it was) set about printing/publishing your book.

 

[Yahzi]

how does lulu (or whoever it was) set about printing/publishing your book.

Well, that's the cool part.

Print-on-demand means they print a copy when you order it. They have a big machine that prints books the way you think of printing copies - push a button, and out one comes. The "print run" is perilously close to death; someday they'll print all books this way. You'll walk into a bookstore, select a book from their sample stock, and they'll print one for you on the spot.

Still need to reduce the price a factor of 4 or so, but considering how much the price for a single print has already dropped, that's not much.

 

[ctg]

The "print run" is perilously close to death; someday they'll print all books this way. You'll walk into a bookstore, select a book from their sample stock, and they'll print one for you on the spot.

LOL, what are you talking? 'Print run' is not a dead subject. Jeesus, get grips man. A few examples from top of my head involving a word 'print run' and traditional publisher together.

Prog rock is a magazine that started few months go. Knowing that the country is in a recession and the internet is booming, they did a 30 000 copy run and sold out the first issue. £7.99 a pop and you can count they got £239 700 in one month, before splitting it. On what's funny, that first issue now selling on ebay for fifty quid.

Another example, Kasper Kent's - Twelve. It's a debut novel, and as above, the keyword is debut. What he has done is an examplary work that has already made three 'print runs'. How many copies he has sold? I don't know, but I bet quite a lot. Probably far more than five thousand.

So whatever you've been smoking, it's been bad gear. And thinking they will make a print in the shop is you dreaming. There's not going to be a room for machines like that.

 

[Joey Sixknuckles]

And thinking they will make a print in the shop is you dreaming. There's not going to be a room for machines like that.

There is already a machine like that, it's just been launched, it's pretty expensive at the moment, and only certain publishers have licensed for it - but the price will come down, and more publishers and booksellers will sdopt it. Remember even ten years ago who would have thought you could get a brand new pretty good quality home printer/scanner/photocopier for £70? I'm not saying of course that you will be able to get book printers for that little, but they will become affordable for booksellers.

 

[ctg]

There is already a machine like that, it's just been launched, it's pretty expensive at the moment, and only certain publishers have licensed for it - but the price will come down, and more publishers and booksellers will sdopt it. Remember even ten years ago who would have thought you could get a brand new pretty good quality home printer/scanner/photocopier for £70? I'm not saying of course that you will be able to get book printers for that little, but they will become affordable for booksellers.

How fast it is on printing a book and binding the pages together? Can you give a source rather than just saying there's one?

 

[J-WO]

After ten years of working my way up through short stories, online novels, even comic book scripts and many failed manuscripts, I finally pushed ahead with my MG Fantasy novel Lyrian...


Start of a new adventure!!!

Nice one Merc! Go for it, sonny!

 

[ktabic]

How fast it is on printing a book and binding the pages together? Can you give a source rather than just saying there's one?

Espresso Book Machine. In stores now. First store I heard about getting it was in Melbourne, but there are 18 sites worldwide now. Couple in London, so will have to go have a play next time I'm down there.

 

[Joey Sixknuckles]

Espresso Book Machine. In stores now. First store I heard about getting it was in Melbourne, but there are 18 sites worldwide now. Couple in London, so will have to go have a play next time I'm down there.

That's the one.

 

[mygoditsraining]

The trim size of a book is infinitely variable between 8.5” x 11” and 4.5” x 4.5”

Someone needs to smack their copy writer. Hard.

 

[chopper]

hmm. ten years ago nobody throught they'd be queueing up to use a damned download machine in a shop...... i ain't gonna rule anything out.

slightly offtopic, i just bound all my finished short stuff into a single volume on lulu for a quick private pressing for Mother Chopper. if you put a professional effort in, you certainly get a professional result. the cover may be slightly pixellated, but that's my fault more than their's.

 

[Ursa major]

The EBM will print, bind, and trim a 300-page book in less than four minutes with a high speed printer model.

Routine intervention is needed for such tasks as refilling paper trays and emptying the trim receptacle tray.

The poor person interveing routinely might be kept quite busy if there's a run on POD books at a store.


I recall seeing a book production system many years ago (it was at a BBC Micro exhibition, so you're looking at a couple of decades ago) and was impressed by its operation. (For demonstration purposes, a lot of the panles were transparent. Obviously it was somewhat larger** than the EBMv2.0, and the means of delivering the meat of the book must have been different, but no one should be surprised that this sort of thing is possible. (And the EBM's penny-a-page cost doesn't look too bad, considering.)



** - It was very big, but then everything was in those days.

 

[Yahzi]

So whatever you've been smoking, it's been bad gear.

Apparently, not so much.

However, it is unlikely that they'll ever put a print machine in a book store. Electronic paper is going to eventually kill the paper book.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Personally I think that is all wrong Yahzi.

When I buy a book I want to be able to feel its crisp new cover and rustle it's pages. The smell the weight. There's something about owning a book and gripping it in your hand for the first time.

There's the anticipation as you place it on the table before you, hurriedly casting aside your overcoat in your eagerness to get to the first page. Absorbing the trite details of the prologue (if you're lucky) The rustle of the crisp paper bag as you reach in to extract your prise. The feel of the embossing on the cover. You can run your hands over it and know that you are going to be intimately engrossed in the storey it has to tell.

As you open the cover there's always that little reluctance as it objects to being opened for the first time. You smile to yourself and because it's a new book you forgive it for the first few chapters, After all this might be classic read. A veritable War and Peace of a book. One to treasure and respect. One that might earn it's place on the your bookshelf to be admired taken down and held in your hand as you describe to any prepared to listen to why you think that this book, this book you are allowing them to see and maybe even hold is one that they should themselves seek out and read because there is no way that this book will be lent for anybody else to read. No this book is too precious for that.

But as the plot develops and you get sucked into the world of imagination the cover starts to get on your wick. It becomes a barrier to the your pleasure. It starts to annoy. At this point you start to fully examine your life. Is it worth it you ask yourself. Has this book got what it takes to carry me off to adventure and and tales of daring do or is it just a meaningless pile of crap that deserves nothing more that chucking in the bin. When I've finished this book will I regret the pain in my thumb from holding open the spine or will I think it was worth a life of arthritic agony, for I will go to my end knowing that at least I read the greatest piece of fiction ever written.

At this point you have the three options.

You an just chuck it, and lets be honest this is what happens to most of the stuff the publishing houses spew out nowadays.

You might decide this is the although not the best book ever it is the best read in years and carefully turn each page so as to preserve the joy and feel of the thing because you know you'll be reading this many times for years to come.

Or you can be sufficiently engrossed to decide the book deserves to be finished but that things are going to have to change.

So you need to take action. You turn the book over and bash the spine down and the bend it back till the glue cracks. Now the pages'll stay open. Plus this gives a handy method of marking where you're up to. No more of the book mark nonsense for me. (besides the cover of the book is the best book mark ever made)

Then you can carry on the the end of the book (periodically giving it the spine treatment of course) and usually regretting the decision not to bin it after all. Still it amused you for a wile but now it's over it can be cast in a gentle arc to land with a satisfactory thump in the bin in the corner.

Now call me old fashioned but in my opinion with the so called 'electronic' book none of these tactile and sensory pleasures are available. In which case I think you'll find most of the delight and experience of reading will be lost for all time.

 

[mercs]

Thanks for the warnings and good wishes guys. As pointed out lulu is POD and so ordering a run isn't as vital as with a private press. The 5000 figure is the dream figure I want to achieve, but yes I'm aware how difficult this is and how much work is required, but it's something to aim for!

As for batches, I have small batches myself in case they are needed. I'd like to get this number up so I can have some handy, but currently it's expensive starting out and having to juggle hundreds of different things! The first order I did was for 20 books, they've all gone. I have another 20 ordered and are being fulfilled currently. Two of these are already gone. I'd like to have more ordered, but the old wage cheque doesn't seem to stretch as far as i'd like!

 

[Yahzi]

Now call me old fashioned but in my opinion with the so called 'electronic' book none of these tactile and sensory pleasures are available. In which case I think you'll find most of the delight and experience of reading will be lost for all time.

A lovely description of the reading process. You should be a writer.

I agree that no existing E-book reader comes anywhere close to the simplicity, durability, and utility of a plain old book. However, that's gonna change.

Right now (as mercs can assure you) the majority of the cost of a book is in the physical media: printing, binding, storing, and shipping. This is bad for the author and the consumer. If I ever get a print publishing deal, I'll probably get 8% of the cover price as my cut. But my E-book publisher pays me a 40% royalty.

I put my own self-printed book out as a Kindle and download, in addition to print; I've sold more electronic copies than I have paper ones.

What has to happen is that the E-books have to become as pleasant to read as real books. Step one is killing the Kindle - how many books do you have that come with a freaking keyboard attached? We're not at replacement stage, but the thing is, by the time the POD presses become viable, they'll probably be superseded.

The first order I did was for 20 books,

I forget the price breakdown at lulu - what kind of discount do you get for 20?

Also, have you considered an E-book version? Lulu doesn't make it easy to do that - you basically have to have an entirely separate product with the same name.

The other thing I'm dying to know is how you're doing with reviewers. So far I haven't found any reviewers that a) were willing to look at my book and b) had enough audience to justify sending them one. I might be too picky on the second part, though.

Finding reviewers is another place where you'll find a stigma attached to self-publishing. I had one site tell me they stopped reviewing self-published books - even though some of them were very good - becuase they simply got too many.

 

[mercs]

Yahzi, 20 books gives you a 10% discount, plus the postages is almost the same as it is for 1 book -lulu and their conning ways of p&p! it means i can save close to £1.40 per book compared to buying one at a time. the problem is having the raw funds to buy 20,30,50 copies of the book in the first place!

as for reviews, i'm struggling too. i have sold mainly to family and friends so far. i've had two biters on absolutewrite that i was pleased about, and i'm hoping i will get some secondary sales from the above too. i don't even think then it will be well known and to do that i will need maybe a dozen good reviews from various media sources -and there is the problem!

as for the ebook readers, they are too crude at the moment. they could be good if they look more modern. currently they looked like a 1960s thunderbirds/james bond gadget and i know nobody who has one. if it was more minority report than captain scarlet, i'd consider getting one...

 

[mygoditsraining]

I quite like the Sony one we have in the house. The technology is a touch too crude at the moment and the distribution models a little too clumsy, but nevertheless waxing lyrical about the "tactile pleasure" of print and discounting electronic distribution is a bit silly isn't it? I mean, if someone's going to pay you money for a product you don't have to factor in costs for manufacture, storage or delivery of* - isn't that a good thing?

Also, on the subject of throwing books in the bin - I hope that really means "recycling bin" or the "take to a charity shop bin".

*well, technically it needs to be hosted, so there's a small cost there.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

I quite like the Sony one we have in the house. The technology is a touch too crude at the moment and the distribution models a little too clumsy, but nevertheless waxing lyrical about the "tactile pleasure" of print and discounting electronic distribution is a bit silly isn't it? I mean, if someone's going to pay you money for a product you don't have to factor in costs for manufacture, storage or delivery of* - isn't that a good thing?

Also, on the subject of throwing books in the bin - I hope that really means "recycling bin" or the "take to a charity shop bin".

*well, technically it needs to be hosted, so there's a small cost there.

Not really wishing to hijack the thread here but...

In fact the more a thing costs to make the more profit that can be made by the publisher. Most profit margins are based initially on the cost of the raw materials needed to make it - In the industry I work in - electronics - and some others I'm aware of this has traditionally been four times the component cost. So the higher the basic material costs the better. Which may go to explain why publishers now like thick weighty tombs of a thousand pages or more.

It used to work out as 25% material costs 25% manufacturing cost -overheads, machinery depreciation wages etc. 25% sales cost and 25% profit - needed to provide the capital for growth. These percentages can be trimmed - often the profit although or the cost of sales element (which includes the cost of distributing and any profit for the retailer) will be different from industry to industry but if the cost of manufacture is low due to the size of the batch then this reduction just boosts the profit.

Now if the basic cost of materials is reduced to zero and the manufacturing costs are also zero. Then the consumer starts to ask "What am I paying for?"

This is what's happening now in the music business. Everybody and his dog can download music for virtually nothing and as a result the commodity is considered worthless - IE should be free. (following the old maxim if it's free, then it's worthless) This is great for the consumer but pretty soon nobody wants the expense for no return and the music industry collapses and the only people recording new music are the ones happy not to be paid for their efforts.

In a similar way writing becomes less attractive as a way of making money and the only things of the imagination will be government reports.

 

[mercs]

The other thing I'm dying to know is how you're doing with reviewers. So far I haven't found any reviewers that a) were willing to look at my book and b) had enough audience to justify sending them one. I might be too picky on the second part, though.

I would say back on topic, but it was me that deviated...oops!

Have you promoted your book on the lulu forum itself? Unlike other sites that tell you to respect the work of fellow writers, they just cut you down and give a really damning verdict over what the book is worth. if you can stomach a few punches to the crotch, that's not a bad place to start...

One guy that will read your book and give detailed analysis is a member called Patrick Mackeown. He runs a site that reviews and promotes detective novels. To say he's the Simon Cowell of the site is fair in every sense. His reviews do seem harsh, but they are largely spot on and fair from what I've seen. Here's an example of one from yesterday that he posted...

I hope you haven't paid the professional editors any money. The first line of your preview is missing its article. And what is an open hosed mouth? Please look at fiction books which you buy in shops. You'll see that they don't have blank lines between all paragraphs. Between passages there might be blank lines or chapter breaks.

Please do not spend too much time defending the errors in your book. It's more constructive to recognise them and remove them than it is to argue about them and then remove them anyway.

I sincerely do hope that you have not paid anyone to do to your book what has been done to it, because if you have, then you have not been well-served.

His name appeared in my shameless promotion thread over there and I braced myself, but turns out he likes it! (well save for some knocks here and there!). I'm actually quite pleased with this!

Hello Kristopher,

I enjoyed reading parts of your free introduction very much. I can find lots of tiny details which are the kinds of things which irritate grammarians and linguistic experts. But, on the whole the book reads well. Well done. The Standard English is largely good. Small things which people may be irritated by are: The professor is called both Professor and Mr. in the story. Sticklers for titles, I'm sure, would prefer it if you picked one and stuck to it. You refer to the Professor (sometimes) as Mr., but you refer to Volks as Herr. Sticklers might prefer to see titles in a story, where related to characters with the same nationality, referred to in the same language. When Voks threatens the boy with a gun he is described as pulling the gun from his waistband, but pointed it at the child. It's customary to remain in the same tense throughout narrative descriptions.

I couldn't understand the quoted dedication.

I shan't go on and on pointing out tiny irritations, save but to say that they don't spoil the flow of the story exactly, because they're largely stylistic. But, regardless of how they're categorised, they're still there. If you want to remove such potential irritations you may wish to discuss the process of editing books with people.

In any case, congratulations on what could potentially prove to be a very, very fine piece of work indeed.

Footnote:
It should be noted for people who like to argue about things simply for the sake of arguing about things, that with stylistic observations they are neither right nor wrong. With stylistic observations all are opinions about personal taste.

 

[mygoditsraining]

the only people recording new music are the ones happy not to be paid for their efforts.

Any chance that you could take it to another thread, TEIN? I mean, there was a thread a while back about print versus eBooks; it's probably been long dead but still - it's not very nice to Mercs that his thread is being diverted out of lastword-itis.

Mercs! Back to the topic. PUSH THAT BOOK!

Nice review from the Simon Cowell dude - although personally I'd save the Simon Cowell reference for someone who's both blunt *and* immensely powerful in the industry - if those minor nitpicks are his major issues on reading your work, that's pretty good.

Oh, while I'm here: there are multiple artists making a living off of creative commons releases - where they allow people to distribute their work freely, but if you'd like to pay for it, that's good too. Radiohead experimented with it a while back, and although their profit margin was lower, it was a great publicity stunt and although they made less money, they still turned a profit. artists like Jonathan Coulton and writers like Cory Doctorow make a living off of an "open source" policy to their work.

Considering Amanda Palmer made money by merchandising off of an evening spent on Twitter (i hereby call THE LOSERS OF FRIDAY NIGHT ON THEIR COMPUTERS to ORDER), you should never, ever, underestimate the public's willingness to consume, as long as you hit the right note.