Starship Troopers, by Robert A Heinlein – book and film

[blacknorth]

I suppose it's each to their own really. But, to go back to Starship Troopers, I think it's a very entertaining read.

 

[Toby Frost]

Well, I'm from the UK, but although I've no idea what the general view in Britain is, I agree with Iansales' point that the film is more successful as a film than the book is as a book. Leaving aside the politics of the book, I think it is not very well structured and doesn't make its case very well. I can think of people I disagree with who are very persusasive writers, and sadly Heinlein isn't one of them - at least in this book.

 

[Connavar]

Well, I'm from the UK, but although I've no idea what the general view in Britain is, I agree with Iansales' point that the film is more successful as a film than the book is as a book. Leaving aside the politics of the book, I think it is not very well structured and doesn't make its case very well. I can think of people I disagree with who are very persusasive writers, and sadly Heinlein isn't one of them - at least in this book.

Have you read another book of his ?

There are some books of quality writers that i cant enjoy at all. No one writes good books every time.

I can say that he let the politics,ideas overrule the other elements in ST. That hasnt happened in the other books of his i have read. Even if it was a straight action,adventure military SF i thought Starship Troopers was quality. The military action was done very well the few scenes there were.

 

[AE35Unit]

Re: Starship Troopers, by Robert A Heinlein – book and film

I read somewhere that this book alienated a lot of his fans when it was first published.

 

[j d worthington]

I read somewhere that this book alienated a lot of his fans when it was first published.

I have trouble accepting that claim (not yours, but the source where you ran across it) as much of what is in there isn't greatly (if at all) different from things in his earlier books. I can believe that those who encountered him first through Stranger in a Strange Land, and took that to be "typical" Heinlein, would be alienated by Starship Troopers... though, to be honest, a closer examination of the two will reveal more similarities in philosophy than otherwise. I've encountered my share of hippies, ex-flower-children, and the like, who absolutely loved Stranger, and reacted like scalded cats (sorry, Nesa!) to ST... but Heinlein hadn't changed; it was simply a different approach and a different type of book, that's all.

My suggestion: forget all the hype, good and bad, and read the darned thing. It's not exactly a very long book, so it won't involve a huge investment in time; and it's had enough printings to make it fairly easy to come across used. Read it, and make up your own mind; don't be scared off because of the controversy.

Myself... I quite like the book (though I certainly didn't when I first read it -- too many differences from my own approach), and I periodically go back for a reread to this day. My own take on it is that, as a didactic novel (the genre to which it belongs, really), it is actually rather well done; certainly, it beats many another such that I've read, whatever their other virtues, when it comes to tying the didacticism to some form of dramatic action or character development; and I enjoy the way this is something of the capstone to various themes developed in his juveniles (which are nearly all well worth reading... even Rocket Ship Galileo, despite being clunky here and there, has things to recommend it, IMO).

As for the film... while I can appreciate what he was doing, I'm afraid I feel it was far too heavy handed in general, where the irony simply became like a bludgeon where subtlety would have served much better to satirize what he was aiming at, and it also was far too farcical... and I've never been a fan of farce. Some nice things there, but I've never been able to actually like the film enough to sit through the entire thing (though I have seen it all in bits and pieces here and there)....

 

[Connavar]

Thats why im so glad Starship Troopers was my first RAH book. I picked it up from the library and read it without knowing anything about except being a juvie and Heinlein was some important SF author heh.

Everything in the book was fresh to me. If i would read it now knowing the so called controversy it wouldnt be the same.

 

[Toby Frost]

I've read two other Heinleins: Star Beast, which was entertaining enough when I was young, and The Puppet Masters, which I remember as being very good. I should point out that both of these worked perfectly well as books: my argument (here) is that Starship Troopers doesn't work very well as a novel, no matter its politics.

Though I agree that different facets of an author can appear in different books. It is a rare novel that shows the whole of its author, and probably not a good one.

 

[iansales]

Other novels by Heinlein I've read - or at least I remember having read: Space Cadet, The Day After Tomorrow, The Puppet Masters, Starman Jones, Citizen of the Galaxy, Have Space Suit—Will Travel, Stranger in a Strange Land, Glory Road, Farnham's Freehold, I Will Fear No Evil, The Number of the Beast, Friday, Job: A Comedy of Justice, The Cat Who Walks Through Walls, To Sail Beyond the Sunset and three or four collections.

And of those, I'd say the juveniles were easily the best. But later this year I plan to reread Stranger in a Strange Land, so perhaps we'll see what I make of that...

 

[j d worthington]

And of those, I'd say the juveniles were easily the best...

Jack Williamson was of the same opinion, as I recall. He did an essay on Heinlein's juveniles which is worth looking up sometime....

 

[BAYLOR]

I like the book but am not a fan of the film

I do like the tv series series Roughnecks The Starship Trooper Chronicles

 

[Straitlace]

I like the book but am not a fan of the film

I do like the tv series series Roughnecks The Starship Trooper Chronicles

Thanks. I'll check it out!

 

[KGeo777]

I didn't care for the film when I first saw it but after a few years it had more relevance and I could understand it better. The satire extends to the romance and that throws you off a lot because it's not relatable.
I.e. the fact that Rico ignores Dizzy (which is really hard to believe if it was real life-he was pretty stupid) and is only interested in Carmen, who is only interested in her career. At the end Rico finds his place by realizing he needs to serve the state and that brings fulfillment.
Verhoeven mentioned that he wanted to make the society functional---it has no crime, education standards are very good, women have important roles in the society.
It's not a fascist society--someone pointed that out. You can leave military service any time you want to.
The ending with the Brain Bug and them cheering to find out it is afraid.
This is a case where you are meant to sympathize with the Other despite no humanizing element to it. There's something off-putting to the film.

I agree it is heavy-handed--because the characters are not relatable--there's something artificial to it. But it is smarter than it first appears.

Jean Rasczak: This year in history, we talked about the failure of democracy, how the social scientists of the 21st Century brought our world to the brink of chaos. We talked about the veterans, how they took control and imposed the stability that has lasted for generations since. We talked about the rights and privileges between those who served in the armed forces and those who haven’t, therefore called citizens and civilians. [to student] You. Why are only citizens allowed to vote?

Student: It’s a reward. Something the federation gives you for doing federal service.

Jean Rasczak: No. Something given has no basis in value. When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you’re using force. And force, my friends, is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived.

 

[Toby Frost]

Jean Rasczak: No. Something given has no basis in value. When you vote, you are exercising political authority, you’re using force. And force, my friends, is violence. The supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived.

Except that Rasczak could give voting any name he wanted, but it has to involve violence because that's how his brain works. He might as well say that if I buy a can of coke, I'm using violence, because removing the can from the shop will "force" the shop to stock more cans. But I think Verhoeven knows that, and is mocking the way that his version of the Federation is so militarised that it has to describe everything in these fake tough-guy terms.

It is definitely a much cleverer film than it first seems. Some of the satire is pretty blatant (Doogie Howser dressed as a Nazi!) but other bits are quite subtle.

 

[BAYLOR]

Nevermind

 

[KGeo777]

It is definitely a much cleverer film than it first seems. Some of the satire is pretty blatant (Doogie Howser dressed as a Nazi!) but other bits are quite subtle.

The co-ed naked scene in the shower (which Verhoeven filmed with himself being nude). The idea is that there's such controlled sexuality in that society, and you need a permit to have a child.

And Rico only notices Dizzy when Rasczak tells him to notice her.

But other things--like it was said to be a satire on America and the right wing--but if that is true, why is the head of the military a black woman? That's not following the 1990s trends on right wing attitudes.

And also the reporter who says a "live and let live" philosophy may be best--he gets ripped into pieces.

 

[Toby Frost]

I always got the feeling that in the film (but not the book) mankind had unified, but considered itself a master race compared to aliens, as opposed to bits of mankind considering themselves superior to other bits. Which is sort of a warped version of the struggle over resources that the book talks about, maybe.

I think one of the strengths of the satire in the film is that while I know what Verhoeven's view of it all is, he doesn't hammer it home too obviously, and so the reporter gets killed. Besides, by then I guess the time for talking was over...

 

[KGeo777]

I think one of the strengths of the satire in the film is that while I know what Verhoeven's view of it all is, he doesn't hammer it home too obviously, and so the reporter gets killed. Besides, by then I guess the time for talking was over...

I get the impression he doesn't have a sincere political axe to grind--he knows what he has to say to appease the funding body in interviews, but it's really an opportunity to express his wild sensibilities, especially with sex and violence. He seems to want to push the boundaries with that more than anything else.

 

[KGeo777]

Verhoeven's main thematic interest seems to be individuality--Robocop, Total Recall, and Starship Troopers have that idea.
Is Rico an individual? He joined the military because his teacher and Carmen joined, while Dizzy seemed to join mainly to find Rico. She's the only one who is motivated by love.

Also Rico's parents are rather anonymous. You don't relate to them either--despite the father criticizing Rasczak.

 

[paranoid marvin]

For me , Starship Troopers the movie is about a ,militaristic regime that has united Earth but made it aggressively militaristically territorial and expansionist. '... to ensure that human civilisation - not insect - dominates this galaxy' , which kind of suggests that the human race has conquered and subjugated other terrestrials.

It's almost as if the old Roman Empire survived, thrived and ultimately dominated the globe. Then went on to dominate space.

I know many don't, but I really like this film, partly because it's a great sci-fi action movie, partly because the there's something niggling at the back of your brain making you wonder if 'we' are the bad guys and it's the bugs we should be rooting for.

Anyway, I've just bought the bought , so it will be interesting to see how it compares.

 

[KGeo777]

I know many don't, but I really like this film, partly because it's a great sci-fi action movie, partly because the there's something niggling at the back of your brain making you wonder if 'we' are the bad guys and it's the bugs we should be rooting for.

You are right--the terrestrial conquest idea--they have the cow, and the ferret, influenced by mind control.

It's impressive that that feeling is created because the bugs are so alien in appearance and no personality either.