Carnivorous Rodents

[Tales]

Hi I am new to this site.

But I dunno if this place is the best place to ask such a crazy question.

Ok, in my story which is in progress. I am designing some predatory rodents which I need some scientific fact to support this design of the teeth. As you can see the Rodent skull hasn't changed much for millions of years in fact they all look very similar.

What kinda teeth will be needed or teeth shape would be best for a rodent's incisors to form so it can stab flesh.

I have a few designs but I calculated that the creature might have what they call a teeth occulsion or overgrown teeth if I use my current designs.

I would also wanna ask whether is it possible for a molar to turn into another teeth shape? Rodents only got molars and incisors. so I do not want to change the number of teeth but only the overall shape

I am going to make a 3d model of the creatures to impress my director.

I hope you guys can help

 

[Tales]

Oh yeah I can't post up my designs in gif as I am new to this board.

 

[The Ace]

Just look at rats. They have no difficulty eating meat.

Your big problem is that mammal orders are classed by their teeth and so a change in dentition'd mean your protagonists were no longer rodents.

It's already been done with the old swarm of rats (a formidable predator in the real world) and there's no point in mucking about with their intelligence as they're nobody's mugs to start with.

I think your best bet is to go for an increase in size and/or longer legs to allow them to run faster. As this, too, has been done, you'll need an imaginative twist as well, but I'll let you work that one out.

 

[Tales]

Just look at rats. They have no difficulty eating meat.

Your big problem is that mammal orders are classed by their teeth and so a change in dentition'd mean your protagonists were no longer rodents.

Oh no you have misunderstood me. I was didn't mean change the teeth into something like a rodent sprouting canines, I mean the rodents will still possess the front teeth but perhaps a different shape?

So far I stumbled upon Nixon's Future Evolution book about animals that will exist after Man's extinction. Inside there were rodents that evolved into meat eating predators, but I do not like the shape of the rat's teeth in. It could cause dental occlusion or something.

 

[Creator]

You mean this?

Yeah the future rat's incisors look like a good candidate for this...

This is a skull of a gopher who needs a dentist or something. It's dead need I say anymore?

 

[Tales]

Yeah! That's what I find ridculous.... I know Rats can eat meat but they are no active hunters

And that poor gopher.... T_T

 

[The Procrastinator]

Australia has some very interesting small critters that look and behave to some degree like rodents, but are in fact very active and athletic carnivorous hunters, with appropriate daggerlike teeth. They are marsupials, and there are heaps of different types and sizes of them. The ones I am thinking of are called Antechinus but they belong to a larger family called the dasyurids, which includes the Tasmanian Devil (largest living member of the family). Check them out, it might give you some ideas.

 

[Tales]

Fascinating! But then their dentition is not very rodent if you ask me.

Like what The Ace said the big problem is that mammals are identified according to dentition.

so I do not want the rodents to sprout canines where there were none before.

Okay I managed to find some creatures that have teeth that are almost rodent like. in other words they grow continuously, able to gnaw.etc
Aye Aye
This primate has rodent teeth that can chew wood.

Thylacoleo
This one is pretty fearsome as so to speak but is it possible for the rodent to turn it's molars into steak knifes? This one has been chosen but I need another teeth design to make my carnivorous rodents more interesting and fearsome.

But the one I am most interested is the Thylacosmilus the sabertooth marsupial. The teeth design is very close to what I am designing. But the creature only has two lower incisors and no upper incisors. the two sabre tooths grow continously like rodent's incisors. The lack of upper incisors seem a bit odd. how does he eat without upper incisors?

 

[The Procrastinator]

Well no, their dentition is not very rodent, because they are not rodents. But some of them are rodent size, with hunter behaviour more than scavenger behaviour, so they may come in useful behaviourally. Something with rodent-like teeth that may be worth looking into is the carnivorous kangaroo (long extinct of course) - it might have been called the short-faced kangaroo? I seem to recall it was rather large.

 

[Tales]

Oh those giants? I think the faces can be used for herbivores no problem.

 

[j d worthington]

As, despite the need for scientifically accurate speculation, this is more in the line of asking for information to aid in the construction of a fictional species or type, have moved the thread to Aspiring Writers, where you may receive more feedback....

 

[Team 2012]

One word (and please don't misinterpret it)

Shrew

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Is there some reason why they have to be specifically rodents?

 

[Nik]

Um, not a far cry from 'rodents' are weasels, stoats etc, culminating in (cough) wolverine...

 

[Team 2012]

Is there some reason why they have to be specifically rodents?

Because they aren't rotten enough to be attourneys.

 

[blairWitcher]

Then why not create a new classification - something like scientists have overlooked on the mammal....er... "thing" (Im not good in science ) just modify it with a few scientific babbles and walah! there goes the predantory rodent or rat or... elephant?

 

[Tales]

Is there some reason why they have to be specifically rodents?

Ok basically my story is about rodents evolved in total isolation on an unchartered island. then human found this island and so begins huge debates between govts and also environmentalists.

The islands have a rodent dominated ecosystem where rodents have diversified in many different niches that would be taken by other mammalian families and even birds elsewhere.

So there are two theories on how this ecosystem developed.

How the rodents got to the Gnaw Islands

Theory 1: Drift Wood Migration= based on New Zealand environmental tragedy and Madagascar
The rodents drifted from the earthquake prone Sunda Shelf which included Indonesia in the past. Perhaps in the past, a Kratatoa like eruption or another natural disaster had send a substantial amount of rodents onto the "virgin" Gnaw Island via driftwood like the lemurs reaching Madagascar. "Virgin" Gnaw Island probably like New Zealand had an avian-dominated ecosystem. But once the rodents drifted there, being rodents they ate all of the native avian fauna to extinction. It is suspected that the rodents that drift there were from the Sciuridae[squirrels] stock as even the flying species of avians were not spared either.
[Squirrels have been known to eat insects, eggs, small birds, snakes and rodents].

Theory 2: Part of the Sunda Shelf or Zealandia= New Caledonia
Taking from the Sunda Shelf map, it is possible that the island was once like New Caledonia, part of the super continent Gondwana. But then it's more likely that the island might have mammalian fauna instead of merely reptile and avian fauna of New Caledonia. It's possible that the rodents took over after the original carnivoran or ungulate inhabitants died off. This absence of carnivorans and ungulates, rodent adaptability and island gigantism can account for the large size of the rodents.

 

[blairWitcher]

nice concept dude.

can i suggest a title for that?

"GNAWS" you know? likw "JAWS"?

(just ignore me. Im a problematic person)

 

[Tales]

So I think you get it?

When those beady eyed rodents drifted onto the island like Madagascar's lemurs millions of years ago, they found lots of stuff to eat; Flightless birds, Eggs, chicks[baby birds]. At first maybe the local birds of prey can make impact on their numbers. But they lost out as the rodents target their eggs and chicks too. And in a matter of centuries perhaps, the terrestial native birds became endangered species then became extinct.

If the mice on Gough Island can double their size in a century, imagine what a few million years can do to a rodent?

 

[Tales]

nice concept dude.
can i suggest a title for that?
"GNAWS" you know? likw "JAWS"?
(just ignore me. Im a problematic person)

Gnaws? Well I am looking for a good title for the three stories about this strange island.

Here are their synopses

Chapter 1:
A strange mysterious creature was smuggled into New South Wales where it encounters Hazel, a young Chinese emigrant who is also trying to fit in with her alien Australian environment. When a spate of killings of livestock and humans occur, the sighting of the creature leds the folks to inclined to think that the creature was the culprit. Hazel had to protect the creature which she thinks is not responsible for the attacks.

Chapter 2:
Ten years following the incident at New South Wales, Hazel, now a first year evolution biology student was told to redo a presentation illustrating evolution. Her presentation was mocked by her lecturer as "speculative fiction". By accident, it caught the attention of a secret environmental conservation organization, W3[World Wildlife Watch].
It's leader managed to find the skeleton of her creature friend from a decade ago and wants Hazel to lead a team onto a uncharted island where her thesis on Rodent evolution was proven to be fact!

Chapter 3:
After the discovery of the Gnaw Islands, there was great territorial disputes by countries near islands. On the other hand, environmentalists are debating whether the island requires conservation or immediate extermination due to past habitats being destroyed by rodents. Jeremy, Hazel's young son, now leads a team of environmentalists and scientists to study the rodents on the Gnaw Islands. At the same time, they come face to face with a flying rodent with a 13 metre wingspan and also the poachers who have been hired to capture the other odd inhabitants for the creation of an exhibit.