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Dune

Carolyn Hill

Brown Rat, wandering & wondering
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
1,038
Location
California
I read Dune when I was a teenager, and after I finished reading it, I felt torn: I was glad that Arrakis would become greener, but I was sad that the desert culture would change as a consequence.

I put down the book and went to sit halfway up the stairs in my house, where I moped around until my mother asked me what was going on. I explained, and she sympathized and agreed that where I was sitting--halfway between up and down--reflected my mental state well.
 

j d worthington

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
13,886
Nice. Very insightful parent, that. Sounds like a neat lady.

As for the long discussion of Voice -- I'm not sure I'd completely agree on the contemporary analogies, but I'd say there's something there. As for those who found the miniseries boring: did you watch them broadcast, or after they'd been released on dvd/video? I find that many such are boring as hell when broadcast, yet are rather good if seen without the interruptions; due, I think, to the director simply not being used to working in the television medium, but thinking still along continuous movie lines, therefore not building tension in blocks, but over a long, gradual, incremental process that works well when seen uninterrupted, but fails miserably when broken up by commercials, by being broadcast in different parts, etc. Those directors who are used to the medium seem able to work with that handicap; those who tend to direct features do not, or not so ably.

Myself, I have a liking for each, but feel Lynch violated some of the basic ideas at the end of the film (at least, as seen here; I understand there are about 3-4 versions of that film, one of which is around five hours in length; though I've not spoken to anyone who's seen it). I also understand he's completely disavowed the film, as he feels the studio first butchered it to fit it into the theatres and then raped it by adding their own expository material when it was later broadcast as a two-part (roughly 4 hour) version; where they often used storyboard art for visuals with v/o to explain -- sort of a "Dune for Dummies" scenario. One of these days, I'd like to see the film as Lynch actually intended, but I think he's so soured on it that's highly unlikely to happen.
 

purple_kathryn

Uberly purple
Joined
Apr 29, 2006
Messages
612
What do people think of the Brain Herbet & Kevin J Anderson prequels? I enjoy Kevin J Andersons writing and i've been tempted by the books.
 

Space Elf

Socially Inept Weirdo
Joined
May 5, 2006
Messages
17
I've read the House Corrino, Harkonnen and Atriedies ones, they were good editions to the Dune world certainly .. not brilliant, though they were readable, i've not read any of the other ones thoough.
 

Cozener

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
23
[FONT=&quot]I thought that Lynch's movie did a fantastic job of capturing the look and feel of the novel. The music did a lot for the movie too. Where the movie failed most miserably was with the Harkonnens and the skipping of some important parts that might have explained more. The Harkonnens were awful. They made the Baron into a moustache twirling caricature of all things depraved. He was an insidiously clever and beautifully articulate man in the book. The movie totally threw that over the side. Feyd was also grossly underdeveloped in the movie. Lynch needed more time to tell the story I think. The casting was very good over all. The costumes were good with the exceptions of the Fremen whose would have been perfect with a jubba cloak and hood. And the Sardaukar who, while looking deadly as all get out, were a tad to remincent of Storm Troopers from Star Wars in that they're bodies were covered in "space armor" or something. The Sardaukar uniforms wouldn't look much different from the Atriedes uniforms except for the colors possibly. (unless of course if you're talking about the initial assault on the Arrakeen when they attacked dressed as Harkonnens)

The minis were good as far as packing as much story in as could be but they dragged a lot. Also, a lot of the costumes were completely ridiculous...some of the hats the women wore...the Sardaukar (aka Bakers of Death)...oh I could go on and on about the costumes. The casting was awful for the most part. The only exception being the Baron...he was damn near perfect. [/FONT]
 

Cozener

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
23
[FONT=&quot]
Don't read them. I managed to gnaw through them, but wouldn't recommend it to anyone.
Yeah, I got through the House series...not that bad really...not good....but not that bad. The Butlerian Jihad...awful...sacrilege. I won't read Hunters of Dune. I can't do it to Frank. I can't do it to myself. [/FONT]
 

Princess Ivy

Damsel in this dress
Joined
Aug 23, 2004
Messages
1,774
Location
Wibble
What do people think of the Brain Herbet & Kevin J Anderson prequels? I enjoy Kevin J Andersons writing and i've been tempted by the books.
i've only managed the butlerian jihad, and it was a struggle. they seemed to miss herberts almost simple descriptions of the machinations of power, making them complex and dull.
 

Krystal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2000
Messages
2,119
What do people think of the Brain Herbet & Kevin J Anderson prequels? I enjoy Kevin J Andersons writing and i've been tempted by the books.
I have to admit that I enjoy Bryan and Kevin's prequels. It definitely was kind of different but at the same time have some of the ambience of the series. And I like the new characters and their stories and also learning more things about the old ones and the Dune universe. Right now I'm reading Hunters of Dune and I'm not dissapointed with it. So I'm sure I will buy the next ones. :)
 

Ice fyre

Dark Lord
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
875
Location
Black will do till they invent a darker colour. U
To some degree I agree with you all (some feat I know)

Dune, I agree with a friend of mine, really isnt filmable but the David Lynch version I feel is a fairly good stab at it. The film changes a lot of things but as quoted earlier they had to think of the bladder rule! Also quite a few things wouldnt have worked. The mini series stuck fairly much to the book as I recall (havn't really seen it in a while) but the casting and costumes were not to my taste at all.

On a slightly different note I have read the first prequel in the dune series and the first in the Butlerian Jihad trilogy and didnt really enjoy them. I was put off as it bears no relation to the Dune encycolpedia I've got. This book puts forward the theroy that the imperial family are in fact Sardurkar themselves among other ideas that I quite liked! Right or wrong I love the work done in it.

Oh well toodles and hope to see you all soon.
 

The Wanderer

Zelazny's Worlds
Joined
Feb 9, 2007
Messages
240
Location
In Shadow
Dune is a phenomenal work, unfortunately, most science Fiction/Fantasy work these days pales in comparison - but in the 60's great writers were standing on the shoulders of giants rather than dwarfs standing on Gnomes like the 00's
 

Tickle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Messages
91
What do people think of the Brain Herbet & Kevin J Anderson prequels? I enjoy Kevin J Andersons writing and i've been tempted by the books.
I've read ALL of the Dune books and seen both the movie and mini series. I liked Brian's and Kevin's prequels. I thought it gave very good background information and did a good job of showing how it all began. I liked the Butlerian Jihad, Machine Crusade and Battle of Corrin. I think a lot of people didn't like those because it wasn't the same world we were used to. Even the House books still centered around worlds that were familar to us from Frank's books, but the others were centuries before and on different planets and with a different culture, but it was still good imo.

I would definetly recommend them.

I also thought Hunters of Dune was pretty good. I have to read the next books, but it whet my appetite after waiting so long after Chapterhouse to see what happened to Duncan and them.
 
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Joined
Feb 26, 2008
Messages
11
I enjoyed the mini-series I think it explained more and was very close to the books. As for the casting I thought Baron Harkonen was near perfect, but the rest were not a patch on the original film cast. In the mini-series I thought the man who played Gurny Hallek was wooden,he was no were near as good as Patrick Stewart, it would have beeb better if they had kept the original cast. Only problem is Kyle Mclachlen who played Paul is about 45 so Idont think he would pass for a 15 year old:D
 

dekket

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Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
509
Location
Lives in Adelaide, Australia
I enjoyed all the Dune books, including the Prequels and Sequels by Brain Herbet & Kevin J Anderson. However the style of Brian and Kevin is very different to that of Frank Herbert, and a lot of people I have spoken to don't like the change in style.

But I believe that they did a good job, especially in Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune, where they have used Frank's notes to finish of the Dune Saga (completing the story that had been left unfinished) while voicing it in their own unique style (which is a much better alternative to trying to write the novels while trying to mimick the original Dune style).
 

iansales

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Joined
May 8, 2006
Messages
3,447
I don't doubt the existence of the notes KJA/BH used to complete "Dune 7", but I find it hard to believe Frank Herbert intended to introduce such daft concepts as brains in jars, Omnius and the magical Oracle of Time. It's certainly not clear from the ending of Chapterhouse Dune that Daniel and Marty are thinking machines - if anything, the series up to that point suggests they're super Face Dancers.
 

Tickle

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Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Messages
91
I don't doubt the existence of the notes KJA/BH used to complete "Dune 7", but I find it hard to believe Frank Herbert intended to introduce such daft concepts as brains in jars, Omnius and the magical Oracle of Time. It's certainly not clear from the ending of Chapterhouse Dune that Daniel and Marty are thinking machines - if anything, the series up to that point suggests they're super Face Dancers.
Why can't the thinking machines masquerade as super Face Dancers. They certainly have the technology to do it (based on the Titans and everything in the prequels), so why not.
 

iansales

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May 8, 2006
Messages
3,447
Frank Herbert didn't write the prequels. So it's unlikely he was intending to reveal Daniel and Marty as thinking machine pretending to be super Face Dancers. Which makes no sense anyway. Why would so-called thinking machines even want to masquerade as Face Dancers? As far as I can tell - and I'm not alone in thinking this - the thinking machines as they exists in the prequels are entirely BH & KJA's invention. FH's notes are unlikely to describe some sort of supercomputer spread across thousands of worlds, or a group of cyborgs who enslaved humanity. FH wrote a book about personal computing - Without Me You're Nothing - so you knew something about the subject.
 

Tickle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Messages
91
IMO - That really doesn't mean anything. No one knows what FH told BH over the years. Everyone is focused on what the notes FH left behind stated. But FH and BH could have discussed everything about the Dune universe from where all these people came from to what type of toothbrushes they used. If FH was my father and I read his story, I would have hounded him for all details (as I'm sure most of us would). Especially things/ideas that he discarded. None of us Dune fans knows if any of the plot lines in the prequels originated with FH. We only know what BH and the Herbert family tell us, or what FH decided to go into detail about in his other works. I just think that even though BH and KA's style is different from FH doesn't mean the ideas didn't start with FH and if you like the Dune Saga, then enjoy it for what it is and stop comparing son to father (they are different people).

(Quote from Iansales - "Frank Herbert didn't write the prequels. So it's unlikely he was intending to reveal Daniel and Marty as thinking machine pretending to be super Face Dancers. Which makes no sense anyway.")

And also as to the above statement - Again, I say why not? Why doesn't it make sense. If the machines had contact with the woman who became Honored Matres (I believe they were a combination of Bene Gesserit and Fish Wives???) then they would have known/found out about humans as they were then and would have heard of the face dancers and their abilities and adapted their plans to take advantage of that, and what better way then to disquise yourself as humans known for disguising themselves. Makes sense if you think of it that way.
At the end of Chapterhouse, we had no clue as to what the huge threat the Honored Matres were fleeing and no clue as to who the people with the net were. They could have been flying monkeys for all we new. Them being machines with a human skeletons or whatever, isn't that far fetched for this universe (machines being the evil/bad/sinister? thing that started the way of life and skills for this civilization) and that they are connected to the reason for the flight/fear of the Honored Matres.

I wonder if the prequels were never made, but Dune 7 came out as is, if people would still think that it couldn't all have come from FH's notes or if they would just say, "WoW!!! I didn't see that coming???"mmmmmm......I wonder.
 
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