Final Episode... WTH?

[ManTimeForgot]

The lets give up all our technology and start anew (not repeat mistakes of the past) smacks of extremist environmentalism but is almost understandable. BUT THROWING ALL THE SHIPS INTO THE SUN??!!!!

The "rogue" cylon forces are pissed off and without resurrection and even after getting hit with 8 tac nukes they are going to be looking for you! I think in the grand scheme of things taking my chances on cylon human hybridization would have been for the best. I understand why it went down bad what with spacing the one guy's wife by the other cylon, but I think it would have been better off for all involved if diplomatic/cultural/biological relations had been set up.

The bay ship is under your "cylon mercenary" control (you freed them, but still). So when bad stuff happens how do you prevent it?


And then we get a ship in a bottle reflections on the past?! So we get to see how cool everything was with all our tech and then throw it all away for hunter gatherer society (no cities...)? That's not gambling on humanity's future; that's gambling against Doyle Brunson with a loaded deck...

I just don't know how to react...

MTF

 

[Scifi fan]

I agree - throwing all the ships into the sun makes no sense. They would just use their current technology to revitalize the human race and then go on to greater technological breakthroughs.

That said, I've never quite gotten into the series - I found it tedious, to be honest.

 

[dustinzgirl]

The rogue cylons are not going to find earth a billion light years away without FTL coordinates.

It made prefect sense to me. If they use the same technology, they make the same mistakes, again, and war happens again. They wanted to ensure, 150,000 years ago, that it was not going to happen again. That is why all the technology had to go.

You did watch it all the way through to the dialogue between angel Gaius and angel Caprica? It was the most important explanation. And certifies that God is in fact a woman.

 

[Susan Boulton]

It is a recurring theme/trope in many SF novels, that of throwing aside technology, and all its "evils" i.e. the war that nearly destroyed humanity, and adopting a more primitive life style.

Actually if they had of set up a "city", pretty soon the native population would have suffered in the same way it has happened in this world when a more advanced branch of humanity has come into contact with a less so.

 

[ManTimeForgot]

They are going to keep looking. If you give them 150,000 years to "test" and scout I guarantee you a machine race will figure out a way to find you (self-replicating micro-robots ala NASA's plan).

Technology does not make mistakes. Humans do. Technology does make people evil. People have that within them already. The only thing that technology changes is the cost of failure when you do make a mistake & the ability to recoup from mistakes when you make them. And as far as "it was all god's plan" I don't buy it. Not for one single second. Becoming technologically advanced is not what causes much of the problems mentioned during the angel conversation at the end; large populations, complicated economic systems, and political systems which allow/encourage abuse do.


Not using technology and throwing it away are very different. You can safely lock something away without incinerating it. What if those mercenary cylons you set free, with a fully operational spaceship I might add, decide you are too dangerous to be allowed to live, then what?

And your latter argument does not stand up to scrutiny. The establishment of cities is not what undermines "less advanced" cultures; the establishment of cities did not suddenly cause the mongols to go extinct. In point of fact the nomadic and sedentary peoples existed in a kind of parasitic-symbiotic relationship. They forced each other to advance, until at a critical point one conquered the other completely and unified them (The reign of the Khan's was very much influenced by Chinese government and culture).

What causes "less advanced" cultures to become subordinated is the high degree of influence a more adaptive culture can bring to bear, the economic power able to be wielded, and the strategic planning afforded those with a more advanced language/mathematics system. The Galactica crew were hundreds of thousands of years more advanced than the "earth natives." They would not have had to interact with them at all. In point of fact a technological difference that great and the natives would never even know they were there unless the crew wanted them to know. And with the establishment not of trade but of incorporation (which was what they were planning) soon the differences become irrelevant. You absorb as much of the locals as possible and breed out the rest.

Moreover the "evils of technology" that most authors seem to be bashing is arbitrary exploitation of the natural world (extremist environmentalist policy takes this to the nth degree claiming that all technology and human endeavor is evil). But note: as I pointed out in another thread there is a definite trend that as technology gets more advanced the more it either resembles nature in its function or makes use of nature (by insinuating itself into nature). So damage to the environment will in the future (at some point) become a non-issue; technology will supplement the environment.

And on the flip side of things: while I agree that arbitrary or excessive exploitation of the natural world is something to be avoided (wrong), not all changes to the natural world are wrong. Doing what it takes to enhance your chances at survival is the whole point of having a brain. If it was really wrong to "think," then we should go back to fighting lions with sinew against sinew (back in the day... large cats were the biggest dangers to man and part of the reason why wolf, which respected "man's territory" and was allowed to pick at what man was done with formed a kind of partnership).

MTF

 

[Shadow Trooper]

Frak! Just wrote at great length (and some really good points!) only to have my computer crash!

Abated version:

Series was amazing! At first I hated the lack of 'happy', but then realised that it was the gritty storylines that kept me coming back for more (that story where they kept having to jump every half hour and had to leave so many ships and people…that sucked big time!)

I didn’t like the Galactica being broken, but come on, the old lady took one hell of a pounding over the 4 seasons.

Not keeping the fleet (even for the technology), well that was the whole ‘break the cycle of hate’ thing (something we could do with attempting a great deal more in real life).

And Starbuck, well I heard something fly over my head at the point she disappeared, but maybe that’s just me .

I don’t believe there could have ever been a ‘structured sensible ending’ to the series, as in my mind that was not what the series was about. It was a rollercoaster of a ride with twists and turns, ups and downs, chaos and a pinch of ‘what was that about?’

I will miss it.

 

[kaneda]

**SPOILERS**

Just finished watching it. I'm feeling so deflated from the amount of cop-outs that its pulled. Yes everything has happened like this because god (or not god as he wants ur to believe) as made it happen this way. Ffs. If you're going to have have cryptic questions then at least have the decency to give me a decent answers "o year starbuck, you see you're actually an angel you see.... and you head baltar and head 6, you see you're both angels as well... and yes you see all of this has been about following gods master plan" Give me a break!!! I could just about cope with the religious undertone, but it properly mentally came out this episode.

Sayign that though, great story endings (apart from starbuck), and yes fond memories of the season - but still very disappointed.

 

[Huttman]

I thought it was a fan-fraking-tastic series finale. I don't believe there were any cop-outs to the end. So much went on this season, I think they could have stretched it to a fifth, but it wrapped nicely for all the characters. As for the 'angel' six and Baltar, I don't know if anyone would remember this, but in the original show, the Galactica crew dealt with these 'creatures' from the ship of lights in a few episodes which Lorne Green's Adama called 'angels'. Those 'angels' also helped humanity along their quest to find Earth. I re-watched the 2003 mini-series that started this all, and it seemed like the writers had not flushed out who the head six was yet. She had lines that insinuated she was part of the Cylon plan, albiet with her own agenda perhaps. It was not until the series started that she, even early on, was claiming to be an angel sent from God.
The only real loophole I see in the ending, is even if they threw away all their technology, it would be only a short time before they started 'inventing' stuff. So in 150,000 years, the Earth would have been much different than it is today. I was hoping they were going to tie in some of the colonials and maybe even the cylons beliefs with our own, but I think the BSG movie coming out this fall called The Plan will tackle some of those issues.
So I'm wondering, did Adama bring any 'seeds' with him of that plant he and Roslin were so fond of...Hmmm...
If there are any unanswered questions left, I say let the viewer fill in those gaps with their own interpretation or imagination. Any more answers from the writers risks the chance of more ridicule. I love the twists at the end, although I predicted crispy earth they found earlier was not 'our' earth as they never showed recognizable continents. Great ending to a great show. One more thing, dustinzgirl, you were kidding about the God is a woman thing, right?

 

[The Procrastinator]

Dusty would not kid about such a thing.

So, I've just watched it and half of me is satisified and half of me isn't. Here are the facts:
- - BSG, after a stellar start, has been going downhill for a while now. How much w*nk can you cram into a series? Series 4 is overflowing with it.
- - The reason is that the writers (this started in series 3 I think) were just throwing stuff in there that seemed cool at the time, deal with the ramifications later. This led to some fairly nutball stuff and a fair bit of stalling in series 4, perhaps they were trying to work out how to write their donkeys out of the big hole.
- - Is this a bad thing? Not entirely. There's some interesting creativity there. Two downsides though - patchiness of quality, and some stuff that is only superficially plausible.

The Finale - cleverly done on the whole, especially given what they had to work with. Some very satisfying moments.
Did not like: that ridiculous blown-up thing about the Temple dream sequences, Baltar, Caprica 6, Roslin, Athena and Hera. Tempest in a teapot.
Liked: Tigh, he was great. The Chief killing Tori, Baltar's character arc, the Earth thing (although as others have noted it does not stand up to scrutiny, it had a certain emotional satisfaction to it for me. As long as I don't actually think about it.)
Not overly impressed with: what they did with Starbuck. It was ok I guess, but still felt like a cop out.

BSG overall: well its all wrapped up now. I will have to rewatch to see how it all gels together. My feeling is that series 4 is pretty lame really, but maybe the rest will carry it when taken as a whole? Time will tell. The ending was good for what it was, and I agree with Shadow Trooper about the point of the show.

However even knowing this and agreeing with it, I am still left wanting more. It should've been better, frak it! I loved this series from the beginning, but by the end of series 4 I was really watching just to see what happened - not for the love anymore. Hmph.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Throwing ships into the sun was the only option so as to make it appear more 'authentic' - which is why we haven't discovered a rusty metal hunk of junk called Galatica still floating above the Earth! It also 'burnt their bridges' so as to ensure that they HAD to make the most of what they had , and ensured there was absolutely no chance of being found by any bad guys.

I think it's interesting to see that , although the technology didn't survive, the ingrained knowledge is still in there somewhere - the technologies of this advanced race are starting to become realised by the human race today - but so is the penchant for self-destruction

 

[StoryForge]

Wasn't a huge fan either of the last episode. It wasn't bad, but I hadn't watched the last 5 or so episodes due to play rehearsals and think I built up my own ending soooo, was kinda disappointed.

 

[reiver33]

I've been a big fan but the ending left me feeling very disapointed...

General observations;

The phantom Caprica-6 in Baltar's head was great and could have been explained by a hidden chip in his head (despite looking for it), but as soon as the phantom Baltar appeared then it was obvious there was a third force at work, and one who believed in "God's Plan". The activation music (end of series 3) and the 'new' Starbuck kind of rammed it home. So was the piano player her father, or even 'God'?

I found the 'chuck it all away' approach to technology really lame. Having stripped the fleet for civilisation building materials once (New Caprica) there isn't going to be much left to try this a second time. I doubt you would find a majority amongst the 39,000 odd survivors who would happily trade in what remains of their creature comforts for a hunter-gatherer existance, and given the small packs they were shown carrying I simply don't see how they plan to make it through to next harvest (assuming you have and seeds). But hey, the mass of civilians never got much of a say in things anyway. Given that you have a 'Captain's Forum' I VERY much doubt they would all agree to sacrifice 'their' ship for the common good - so was this collective Sun dive enforced?

You could have kept the Battlestar in orbit as protection/hospital/workshop and gone for a New-New Caprica approach without much danger of repeating past mistakes; I don't see the limited resources the fleet has being able to jump-start an advanced civilisation - all you can hope for is to cushion the fall back to an agricultural existance.

I just feel let down...

 

[mushroomyakuza]

Galactica was one of my favourite pieces of media in recent memory, truly a fantastic TV show. But the ending sucked.

I was really let down.

First of all, it was a huge emotional contradiction to the rest of the season. Season 4 had pushed everyone to the edge, off the cliff, into the mud, kicked them, then drowned them. To pull a complete deus ex by discovering a lush, green Earth felt like such a cop-out. It just didn't ring true for me. It was all far too convenient. It's a shame, because I really really wanted them to find Earth - but not like this.

Also confirming the existence of a God really got to me. Put simply, I just feel Ron Moore put too much of himself into the finale, philisophically speaking - he's a "recovering Catholic" (a WHAT?), but I really feel that he got too preachy with the whole existence of God. I'd much rather he'd left that particular question a mystery.

Starbuck's Houdini impression was horrible, too. Again, what the hell was she? They never answered that definitively, and I wish to God they had. And I don't see what the point in saving Hera was? Sigh. A million other quibbles come to mind; no goodbye between Tigh and Adama, several pretty pointless flashbacks, and Lee chasing a pigeon with a broom....WTF?

 

[JagLover]

And I don't see what the point in saving Hera was? Sigh.

I have only just finished watching the fourth season so a belated reply.

The importance of Hera actually ties in with why the arrival of the BSG humans had so little effect on human evolution. Perhaps they helped create language and some limited stone tool useage but that is it.

A common theme in the show was difficulties in conception. It may be that on a new world, with different plant life, viruses etc, only a cylon/human hybrid was in fact capable of breeding with the native population and creating a new race (despite what Baltar said). Therefore the importance of Hera was that only through her could both the humans (on BSG) and the cylons live on. That she in fact became mitocondrial Eve for all of us.

The rest of the arrivals died out in a single generation.

 

[Purdy Bear]

Iv just watched the last episode, and in most parts it was brilliant (compared to Voyagers finale).

I would have loved to seen more of what went on after they arrived on Earth, there are so many questions still to answer:

Where did Starbuck go?
Who does Lee end up with?
What did Bills cabin look like?
How did these people who are so techno based survive the first year and so on.

I personally would have parked up the ships on the dark side of the moon, but then what would you have done about Sam!

I dont believe the cylons are gone for good though, maybe in another ten or twenty years time we'll see a follow on hopefully.

 

[ctg]

Where did Starbuck go?
Who does Lee end up with?
What did Bills cabin look like?
How did these people who are so techno based survive the first year and so on?

About some time ago they were talking about making a movie to answer these questions but let me just say that Starbuck's went away as she was already dead. The time she spent in the reality was extended due to will of God. So, in a way, she was an angel. Therefore, your question should be addressed as where does the physically manifested angels go after they have fulfilled their mission?

 

[Brian G Turner]

[WARNING! SPOILERS!]





Really enjoyed the series in general and the final episode had a few issues, but not so bad.

The Starbuck subplot was bad - we should have seen this concluded with her being revealed as a form of "Daniel" of the "7"'s that were supposed to be boxed up. The "angels among us" felt like a deus ex machina cop-out..

However, the overall conclusion was fairly good.

In terms of flying the ships into the sun - well, why should they keep them? It was plainly obvious that:

1. Galactica was beyond repair
2. Civilian ships were almost out of fuel
3. The ships were useless as a materials base, unless they were going to build metal cities on earth. That would have been pointless in itself.
4. Besides, they were looking to start afresh. The *entire* point of the Cylon conflict was that humans harness technology, and then enslave it. Getting rid of old hunks of metal was part of that mentality.


As for setting the Cyclons free - this should be pretty self-explanatory. It was only by trying to keep the Cyclons as slaves that the cycle of war kept being repeated. The Centurions had to be set free to break that cycle. With that, there was no logical reason for the Centurions to seek out the humans and kill them.

Also, as for other Cylons being out there - I was under the impression that with John gone, there was no longer any effective leadership among the Cylons. Therefore, as per past lessons, they would slowly turn against themselves to destruction, exactly as happened on the original earth.

Not least because there is no way they could have discovered where Galactica and the fleet ended up.

There were things the ending could have done better - not least bringing in the Daniel element, which could have explained a lot (especially after we hear John had messed up the DNA - we could have had Baltar even as another version of John - but overall, considering I was expecting a really bad ending from general complaints in review, it was a lot better than I thought.

Really, it was a fairly nicely rounded end. It wasn't perfect, but it satifactorily ended the series run overall.

 

[kulture]

Oh well, you have persuaded me to watch it. i gave up on BSG after half way through season 4. What started as an amazing show, gritty, realistic, and well scripted, degenerated into pointless fantasy. I will watch the end now.

 

[quantumtheif]

It was a decent ending. I mean they found Earth right?!
To throw away all their Semi decent technology was a little stupid though. They could easily make a new beginning without throwing away the FTL drives.
Do they really have that much faith in mankind?

 

[C. S. Hand]

Battlestar Galactica has been one of the best pieces of television I have ever watched, hands down. It has been better than many movies I have seen.

But.

I was so drawn into the show due to the character Starbuck (which early on I was actually bored and annoyed with), and to have them really mess that story arc up with 'she's an angel...or something' really gutted me.

The only other part I didn't really like was the awful Hendrix remix they kept doing.

On the whole however, what an amazing TV series. I was actually mildly depressed for about a week after I finished watching the show since it was really hard to let go of.