Decontamination- how futuristic?

[Huntress]

Hi, I'm trying to write a scene for a science fiction story I'm working on-
Essentially the protagonists (while attempting to investigate an insurgent group) find themselves caught in an area where a possible chemical weapon is detonated and they have to undergo decontamination procedures.
I’m wondering what those procedures could entail, as science fiction I’ve seen has a tendency to hand wave these issues. There is the notable exception of Star Trek: Enterprise which seemed to treat this as an excuse to strip the crew down to their underwear and rub oil all over each other.
Anyway I’m going for a gritty approach with my science fiction as oppose to hard science fiction (hence the contemporary problems of chemical warfare and terrorism) but I’m not adverse to showing that the setting is in the distant future rather than “this could happen tomorrow”.

- Sorry I posted this on the wrong forum, do I wait for a moderator or re-post it?

 

[The Judge]

Hi

I'm not sure how it's done, but I think you need to move this thread to attract the attention of the scientists - I don't know how many of them hunt with the critiquers.

In the meantime, have you googled decontamination? It's incredible how much information is out there on official sites - even if not all of it is easily understandable.

As for Enterprise - let's face it, with the crappy writing it had, they needed to give people some reason to hang around and watch!

J

 

[Dave]

I'm not sure where you want it moved. I've moved it to Workshop, but maybe the SFF Lounge would get a better response?

As to your question, I would ask someone with military experience. I believe they do decontamination drills regularly.

If you are asking how future technology might help, then I would say very little, I expect it will always involve hard scrubbing of the skin and unpleasant chemical washes.

As for decontamination in SF films, I know there is a scene in Twelve Monkeys and I'm sure I have seen others.

edit: I've now moved it to Aspiring Writers

 

[BookStop]

Depending on exactly what the contaminant is, the procedure would need to fit. If you assume the people doing the decontamination know what they are dealing with, then there will be decontamination areas already in place. For a dust, dirt, powder, liquid contaminant there would most likely be a stripping station, a washing station, a checking station. Different detergents would aid in washing different chemicals. All clothing would likely be lost, and all jewelry at least bagged and moved to another cleaning fadcility. Basically a really good shower would be needed, with special care taken to body crevices, under fingernails, inside ears, nose, etc. Tests would need to be done to check for the contaminant after to make sure it's as gone as can be.
Futuristic movies often have a blast of air to remove the materials, or an automatic showere type thing. Not really realistic.

 

[chrispenycate]

If they know what the contaminating agent is, I suspect there will be some form of reagent developed to test for it, and a neutralising agent (probably every bit as unpleasant as the original contaminant, but in the opposite direction) applied in precisely the right quantity to restore balance (you get caustic soda on your skin, pour on just the right amount of hydrochloric acid and bingo! Salt.)

External application is relatively straightforward; internal organs, even relatively accessible ones like lungs and digestive tract, are much more complicated. It might turn out to be easier to remove the effected parts and transplant (assuming transplant technology has developed far enough)

Perhaps a technology equivalent to the chelating agents used in heavy-metal poisoning? Or nanorobots preprogrammed to hunt specific chemicals in the bloodstream.

Whatever the technology, speed is of the essence; the longer you wait, the deeper it will get into the system.

In a university chemistry lab forty years ago there was a telephone with no dial. A postgraduate student took off his protective gloves and saw a white spot on his finger, so picked up the telephone and said "Hydrofluoric acid". He then applied a tourniquet to his arm.

Less than two and a half minutes later an emergency car of doctors drew up outside the chemistry building, parked on the pavement, and disgorged doctors. when they reached the lab, they cut the finger off, then stated blood tests. The hand came off at the wrist, then the arm at the elbow, then just below the shoulder, in the lab, with local anaesthetic until the general had time to work.

The guy survived, and the doctors admitted they could probably have stopped it half way up the biceps, but didn't want to take the risk.

The ambulance carried him off to hospital after the work was done, to neaten up the somewhat crude work an do further tests; for shock, if nothing else.

Now that's decontamination.

 

[BookStop]

Chris - first off, love the nanobots idea. Makes sense.

and second - Cripes - will not mess with hydroflouric acid anytime soon.

 

[ray gower]

The wash down sequence from ST Enterprise is typical of decontamination from radiation and biological hazards, where it is essentail to remove all traces of dust.

Chemical weapons cause mechanical damage. Either you go in protected, or you run out again, very quickly, either you heal or you don't That said, their duration is very short, no more than a few hours before dispersal. You might be better advised to consider industrial pollution which can be longer lasting.

Biological weapons can also hang around. Treatment is reliant on isolation, identify the agent and applying relevant medication.

 

[goldhawk]

If they know what the contaminating agent is, I suspect there will be some form of reagent developed to test for it, and a neutralising agent (probably every bit as unpleasant as the original contaminant, but in the opposite direction) applied in precisely the right quantity to restore balance (you get caustic soda on your skin, pour on just the right amount of hydrochloric acid and bingo! Salt.)

And third-degree burns. Acid + alkali = salt + heat. Using a strong chemical to neutralize another is considered a Bad Idea.

If the contaminate is unknown, it is best to wash in distilled water. No neutralizing agent, no soap, just pure water.

 

[The Ace]

I'd go with the majority here. An absorbent powder to soak up residual liquids, strip and clothing destroyed (including underwear but they couldn't show that), all jewellery removed and sterilised or destroyed followed by a thorough wash, followed by repeated testing and rewashing as necessary.

Internal methods could include purging the digestive system and/or inserting brushes into varous orifices (horrible but perhaps necessary).

The amount of detail actually written down is up to you, but I wouldn't get too graphic and I'd suggest that the characters are informed of the proceedures as an incentive to wear protective clothing.

NB, Hydrofluoric acid has a nasty tendency to eat its way through to the bone, literally before the victim realises he's been splashed. Nobody goes near it unless they have to.

 

[chrispenycate]

And third-degree burns. Acid + alkali = salt + heat. Using a strong chemical to neutralize another is considered a Bad Idea.

If the contaminate is unknown, it is best to wash in distilled water. No neutralizing agent, no soap, just pure water.

I was simplifying, not suggesting anyone actually tip concentrated hydrochloric acid over himself. Just stating that some of the aantidotes are as bad as the poisons.
And if you tip sodium hydroxide over me you get soap; sodium penycate seems to resemble sodium stearate considerably…

NB, Hydrofluoric acid has a nasty tendency to eat its way through to the bone, literally before the victim realises he's been splashed. Nobody goes near it unless they have to.

I knew there was a good reason for studying mathematics; no electricity, chemicals, bulldozers, viruses or nasty bitey machinery; the most dangerous things around are tutors.

 

[Pyan]

There's a scene at the beginning of Subspace Explorers, by E.E. "Doc" Smith, where our hero and heroine, having been exposed to a large dose of hard radiation, use an all-over coating of decontaminating foam to save themselves:

He unclamped a fire-extinguisher-like affair; opened the door of a tiny room. "In here!" He cradled the device and opened four valves. Fast as he was, she was ready for the gush of thick, creamy foam from the multiplex nozzle.

"Oh, Dekon?" she asked. "I've read about it. I rub it in good, all over me?"

"That's right. Short for 'Decontaminant, Complete; Compound, Absorbent, and Chelating; Type DCQ.' It takes care of radiation, but speed is of the essence. All over you is right."

He placed the foam-gun on the floor and went vigorously to work. "Eyes, too, yes. Everywhere. Just that. And swallow six gulps of it ... that's it. I slap a gob of it over your nose and mouth and you inhale once-hard and deep. One good one's enough, but if it isn't a good one you die of lung cancer, so I'll have to knock you out and give it to you while you're unconscious, and that isn't good-complications. So make it good and deep?"

 

[Boneman]

Of course you could always fall back on MRI principles: essentially, magnets whir round you so that your cells are polarised, ie all north at the top and all south at the bottom (for want of a simple argument). Because of the different density of tissues, an image is produced through resonance (sound wave) that can be read easily (a bit like ultrasound scans). So, you could have the contaminant analysed by a machine thingy, and then a magnetic scan set to its polar density, so that only those cells are polarised (they can't do this with MRI....yet) but as yours is in the future, you're allowed to do it.

Naturally your scanner will attract the contaminant particles to the magnet, and hence only the magnet has to be cleaned, the body will be clear. Of course some people might need two or three scans if they are very contaminated, and if the particles are in the body, there could be a side-effect of bruising, or the release of free radicals (I love that, it sounds so much like a protest group) which will need to be dealt with, so you could have a decent dose of anti-oxidants straight after the scan. Or not bother....smoking releases free radicals, and nobody bothers taking anti-oxidants.

If you want to be really futuristic, your scanner will be able to change the polarity of the contaminant so there is a molecular shift, and the contaminant becomes harmless. There is some research on this type of thing in cancer work, as a cancer cell is only a normal cell that changes, and starts to grow, genetically. If they can work out how to turn off the growth factor the cancer will be stopped in its tracks, so you can go one further and reverse the growth until the cells normalise again. Simple.

 

[Huntress]

Some good suggestions so far and to elaborate further on the situation- the protagonists are travelling undercover through a spaceport with a large group of refugees who are there to be assigned work placements when there’s an explosion nearby and the threat of possible contamination.
It’s really more of a group hysteria scene, but I felt I may as well touch upon what these people are going through.

 

[Boneman]

ooh, so you could add to the hysteria by having them scanned (hand held thingies) and then divided - you go through this door, you go through that one. Naturally the medics are working fast, so little time for explanation, and this could increase hysteria. Or, and I'm not sure I like the symbology of this, they are herded into a massive chamber, and decontaminant floods the chamber. It's a bit too much like a gas chamber scene for my liking, but supposing they know they will pass out, (so the treatment can get into their lungs etc) the undercover group might be discovered, so that might ramp up the tension. Heh heh, maybe they plant some incriminating stuff on one of the 'bad' refugees before they all pass out,so he's hauled off. Or one of their group volunteers to be the fall guy so the others can complete the mission... they'll have to work fast.....

 

[Ursa major]

It’s really more of a group hysteria scene, but I felt I may as well touch upon what these people are going through.

So it depends on how close to your POV(s) the narration is and how well informed the POV(s) are. If he, she or they are ill-informed, all sorts of nasty things might be mentioned**, with possibly nasty outcomes. (And the nastiest outcom of all may be that they're told that only they - that is, the ones who have received the dose - are affected and no-one can be bothered to decontaminate them....)




** - Within reason, of course: your job is not to bore the reader.

 

[soba]

Here are some ideas I had for decontam scenes...

Dermabrasion -- could be a bit gory or icky for some.
Exposed to temporary vacuum -- probably kills most things.
Sonic bath for biological nasties.
Remember the healing tube that Luke was in after he lost his hand? That seems cool...
nanotech is good, but then you have to work that into everything....
How about biological or enzyme cleaners? It might make a tingle, and don't open your eyes or it might...damn.
Maybe the chemical weapon is ionic, and you can use a positive anode to pull it off your crew, like powder coating but the other way...with a bug zapper at the end.
Real decontam has to do with a lot of washing, usually with water. I used to do it quite a bit in a former career. It took a long time, and was hard to be patient with.

gl

 

[Interference]

Some minor instant thoughts:


Dermabrasion -- could be a bit gory or icky for some.
Or not, depending on how intensive an operation it is. The tools or instruments would be the important parts of this, I'd think, and their disinfecting/de-infecting properties.

Exposed to temporary vacuum -- probably kills most things.
Thinking it through, I'd say it'd kill the patient, too. However, it may be perfect for machinery and equipment. At least as far as air-dependent contaminations are concerned.

Sonic bath for biological nasties.
Again, frequencies that don't damage the patient/subject would need to be delicately identified before they could be used, I imagine. Not impossible, in fact a potentially nice little added layer in the description of the process.

Remember the healing tube that Luke was in after he lost his hand? That seems cool...
Any idea how it works (Hmmm. Cool. Hand. Luke..... now, why does that ring a bell?)

nanotech is good, but then you have to work that into everything....
How about biological or enzyme cleaners? It might make a tingle, and don't open your eyes or it might...damn.

Agreed

Maybe the chemical weapon is ionic, and you can use a positive anode to pull it off your crew, like powder coating but the other way...with a bug zapper at the end.
Another nice idea that will pay dividends, I think, in any descriptive passage you need to explain it.

Real decontam has to do with a lot of washing, usually with water. I used to do it quite a bit in a former career. It took a long time, and was hard to be patient with.
So, perhaps replace the water with something even more wholesome and contaminant-free

Of them all, the anode concept appeals to me most, though perhaps the scientists around here would have an objection I can't think of. I like it because its operation could be simply explained which would keep the pace under your control; and because it sounds to me like it's quite an original approach. Again, our more widely-read co-chronners may know better.

 

[goldhawk]

Real decontam has to do with a lot of washing, usually with water. I used to do it quite a bit in a former career. It took a long time, and was hard to be patient with.
So, perhaps replace the water with something even more wholesome and contaminant-free

That's what I said: if the contaminant is unknown, wash with distilled water.

Although there are some things you want to avoid having contact with water, human skin normally has a small layer of sweat on it so the contaminant already is in contact with water.

As for equipment: autoclave it; destroy it; or leave it in the contaminated area.

 

[Interference]

That's what I said: if the contaminant is unknown, wash with distilled water.

I was wondering when you'd said that and then I noticed - this is Page 2

Sorry, I thought Soba was the thread-starter, which is why I didn't include the name in my response. Okay, so I'm a great big silly old Inter

However, what if your contaminant/contaminate reacts with hydrogen? Is water still a good idea?

 

[soba]

Most things that react with hydrogen do so with *free* hydrogen...but not water, where it is in a nice, stable situation. Water, however, is quite polar which is what makes it such a good universal solvent.

I spent the better part of a decade as a commercial diver, and in every case that I went through decontam, it was in a suit. Detergents played a big part. I had to dive in diesel, once, and the decontam afterward involved lots of detergent and uncomfortable scrubbing. They pressure washed me, too. Which you can do when someone is wearing a thick coating of vulcanized rubber and metal.

Another time I had to dive in a sewage-contaminated holding pond. The detergent that they used on me that time ended up degrading the suit I was wearing, and I billed them for a new suit. Can you imagine if you decontaminated that suit a few times, and then it FAILED (like a seam opening) just when you need it?

And one more interesting thing, I have a friend who is a nuclear reactor diver (the best job in the industry with the highest pay) and they just went to a new system using hot water suits, only they are putting graphite flakes in the suit circulation water in order to absorb radiation, enabling a longer dive time (though they are not diving longer, just safer)

I have also been told (was discussing this with a colleague) that some modern day decontam procedures with *airborne pathogens* use a WIND TUNNEL!! He didn't say how, but my overactive imagination sure got the better of me! What a concept! And if you introduced a grit to the wind tunnel, you have dermabrasion again! Add a few bolts of lightning (caused by the friction of the grit in the air of the wind tunnel) for your anodes, a few drops of water (stinging rain)...now you have something like

"Borydnas waited nervously for his turn in the decontamination cavern. He'd heard that some people lost their grip or had their straps fail and were found as a gooey mess crammed into some hidden corner. He reviewed the procedures he'd learned over and over. "Do not expose the straps to the dermabrasion flow." Soon it was his turn, and he entered the scarred metal cavern with trepidation. There were stripes of freshly exposed metal where the decontam media had concentrated in the wind, and the smell of ozone was strong in the air...if you could call it air. He walked to the center of the chamber and strapped himself to the saddle. He was frightened, but this was the only way to get off this retarded planet...."

or something to that effect. I'm getting a little bit of Bill the Galactic Hero into that...sorry Mr.Harrison.

soba