I don't know what to call this thread :P

[Sk8er_Gurlie03]

Im sorry if this offending or a bit personal, but i was wandering if in Exodus, when you wrote about the statue of Jesus- were you saying that you do not believe in God or Jesus? Is that why the people in your book worship stones and Kentucky Fried Chicken posters or something?
Sincerely,
Sk8er_Gurlie03 <3

 

[Julie Bertagna]

Hi Sk8er_Gurlie03,

When I'm writing I try to forget all about me. I try to 'disappear' and slip entirely into the world and skins of the characters (though, yes, since it's me writing, I am still there). But I was wondering what it would be like in a world where cataclysmic events had swept away all the old organised structures - of power, government, communications, civilisation and even beliefs. What would it be like? What would people do?

I thought that it was very possible that the religions we know would still exist - but many people have no religion at all and I found myself wondering what people might find to believe in, in a devastated world, where the old threads of belief had been lost. In Exodus, Tain says at one point that he feels he lives in 'a godforsaken place'. What would it be like, I asked myself, to feel that the Earth itself had turned against you and that God (whatever god you believe in, if you do) has deserted you?

So it's really not about me or what I think or believe; it's about the characters and their world, an exploration, an imagining of communities that have had to begin again. That was the exciting thing for me. To bring religion (as we know it) into the book would have led me down an entirely different path - so I didn't!

Hope that helps

 

[Sk8er_Gurlie03]

Thankyou <3
I am christian and i felt guilty reading if the book was anti-God or something, but i see your point entirely.
-sk8er_gurlie03

 

[Julie Bertagna]

You asked a thoughtful question, sk8er_gurlie03. Many people have commented that they feel a strong sense of spirituality in the books - the theme of miracles (are they miracles?) and the searching and exploration by the characters of what it means to be human and what, in essence, God might be or mean, in a universal sense?

That's vague, I know, but it's never the author's job to tell a reader what to think!

 

[Namorvia]

Yay! That was pretty much what I thought you'd say.

In the culture we live in it's so easy to alienate half your audience just by mentioning religion. Which every side you take you'll feel the other side feeling hurt and let down.

-Quick sidetrack - Julie, do you have Facebook?

 

[Julie Bertagna]

I'm there, Namorvia - just. Have hardly done anything on Facebook Too busy writing and keeping up with you lot here! But drop in and say hello over there sometime...

 

[Namorvia]

Hehe, I just typed your name into the search to see if there was a fan group and I just got your profile and me (because I have you in my books section) so I thought I'd ask if it was actually you first. Friend request is me.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Thankyou <3
I am christian and i felt guilty reading if the book was anti-God or something, but i see your point entirely.
-sk8er_gurlie03

What!!!

 

[Namorvia]

What!!!

"What!" what? I'm not entirely sure what you're exclaiming.
It's a valid point that watching/reading/listening to something that goes against you're beliefs is an uncomfortable feeling, especially if you're enjoying it overall.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Uncomfortable because it's so good that you might be won over and 'change' your beliefs or uncomfortable because you shouldn't enjoy things that are 'wrong'.

Bear in mind, this a work of fiction we're talking about

 

[Namorvia]

The latter but its not quite as simple as that (well I don't think so). Very few people refuse to read the Harry Potter books due to their magic content and I personally am fine with them, like you say, it's just a work of fiction. Yet when Phillip Pullman describes God as an old and dying angel who lied about his divinity its frankly a kick in the teeth.
I take the view that if anyone doesn't believe and isn't willing to humour us, then they should mind their own business. If they want to write about a corrupt, lying religion then they should invent their own first (e.g. Final Fantasy X's Yevon), otherwise its a bit like writing a fiction on how Arnold Schwarzenegger is a adulterating, drug abusing murderer, sure it's fiction but that doesn't mean its not insulting. Only that doesn't even begin to cover it because I doubt that anyone out there feels for Arny what Christians feel for the God who saved their lives.

That's just my view though.

 

[apogee]

I am an atheist but am happy to read fiction with a Christian theme....I don't feel guilty or insulted by such works of fiction...so why is it Christians do? Lots of fiction and in particular sci fi/fantasy have themes which might make the reader uncomfortable....but it's only fiction!

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

I think its because of the resentment that we converts feel towards the religious. I spent years being fed what I now 'know' to be a load of codswallop by people who for the most part were just turning the handle on the 'we must make good christians of these' machine without ever questioning, challenging or testing what they were doing. I feel resentment because they tried to do it to me and luckily 'I saw the light' else I would be a another slave to their doctines and although I've escaped, they look around for the next innocent to groom. A three year old would be just right. Got to keep the hell fires burning.

If you look at the benefits that any religeon has brought to the table of humanity it's virtually impossible to find anything that is good just because it comes from 'above'. By that I mean most societies sort out a 'live and let live' policy because eventually they get fed up of the alternative or just die out. Ok they usually drag a bit of religion into it as a 'do as your told or else' factor. Interestingly enough these rules never seem to apply to the ones doing the telling. Look to history, from popes down to lords of the manor. The rules we make are for you, not for us.

On the other hand it's all too easy to find evidence to the contrary. Over the mellenia billions of people must have committed to sacrificing their lives in the belief that a 'Supreme Being' would be grateful or even rewarding. Where's the evidence - just take it on faith.

Let's not even think about the number who have paid the price for believing in another faith or even slight variation to the main line.

So for me religions are bad things. They would prefer that everyone towed the line really and even worse, secretly deep down in their 'soul' they, when the crunch comes are thinking, they'll be sorry when the Big Man comes, they'll be for it. I'll be all right though I was good.

Another thing that amazes me, as I've posted before on another thread, is the rewards for this subjugation are what. An eternity of tedium. It's never suggested that heaven is a fun place where everyone rocks till they drop fornicates every hour and the drink flows from every fountain.

Seriously trying not to be offensive.

 

[Namorvia]

Well I have no intention of letting this thread become a religious debate so I'm not going to argue with what you say. After all if I tried to force you in to thinking anything I'd be just as wrong the people who tried before and made you resent religion.
I'll just correct one thing (I really don't want to preach), and maybe some Christians don't get this, but they should. Skip it if you must.
We're not saved by our actions, by are intentions or anything at all that we do, we are saved by the love and grace of God. For any one to be considered worthy of heaven on their own merit is ridiculous, no one is good enough, no one is perfect (and what God would expect us to be if he hadn't made us that way), yet we're welcomed nonetheless through the sacrifice of Jesus. So if anyone thinks "we must make good christians of these" or "I'll be all right though I was good." they are wrong, because their aren't any good Christians, only extremely grateful bad ones.
[/sermon]

@apogee - We don't generally get offended, it's really only if we feel like our faith is under attack. If you insult a believer's faith you insult their entire life, what they've dedicated their life to, if you insult an atheist's lack of faith you're insulting something they don't really care about, unless they've dedicated their entire life to their lack of belief, which to me just seems depressing.
Two aid workers fly to Burma to help deliver aid to the hurricane victims, one a Christian, one an atheist. The Christian does it because she knows that God loves all His people and because of that she cannot bare to see them suffer and wants to help them, the atheist goes because she too, cannot bare to see people suffer, for her own reasons. Neither is more noble, neither is more passionate. The difference is is that the Christian goes because she is a Christian, the atheist goes, but she doesn't go because she is an atheist. Your atheism isn't your life, my Christianity is mine.
Don't think I'm naive enough to think it's all good though, no one ever blew up the underground with the cry of "there is no God" either. There is no one the devil likes to trick into doing bad things more than those who think they are doing the right thing.
I hope that kinda helps explain why we take it more personally, not sure though, it's 1 in the morning and I have a killer headache.

 

[apogee]

I accept everything you say and respect your views and really don't want to get into a debate about it. You have your views and I have mine. However you have missed my point....I was talking about fiction. I could list 100 themes in fiction (including religion) which I personally don't agree with but it doesn't mean I get uncomfortable or feel guilty reading them.

 

[Namorvia]

Like I say, in most cases most Christians will be fine with reading things they don't agree with. But when something is presented (even as fiction) which stands in direct opposition to what we believe then we cannot simple turn off our feelings for that bit. Whatever a Christian does they do as Christians (or at least they should do, no one's perfect). It would be like being married then going to a party and cheating with someone else taking the philosophy that it was a party and therefore doesn't count.
It really is only when something stands in opposition though.

 

[Julie Bertagna]

I was enjoying this discussion - really interesting. Especially as everyone was being forthright about their own views and feelings but not offensive to anyone else.

And then you all got shy and went quiet... shame

I'd love to know if you have ever read a book that didn't confirm or tie in with your views, but actually changed the way you experience and see the world? And what you felt about that?

It doesn't have to be regarding religion - it could be anything.

Now I'll go and have a think about that myself....

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Hang about, hang about - we went all shy.

What about your good self?

Please feel free to jump in and cast a few of your own opinions about. The more the merrier and all that - well the more the depressed actually. However, don't let that stop you.

Which side of the electrified impaling spiked fence do you want to land.

 

[ducky5]

Talking about being shy: only 3 threads have been updated since the 18th May. Come On People!

 

[Julie Bertagna]

It's exam time, ducky5, and going by what I see in this house everyone's grumpy and all wiped out...

EndIsNigh - not gone shy; I will attempt to land gracefully amid the electrified impaling spikes once I get a minute. I've just been too busy revolting and rebelling over this, doing the US edit on Zenith while writing a short story and (before anyone complains) writing Aurora.

But I get all the space I need to explore stuff in my books, so while I head off for a sleep, this is your space...