What's the difference between "--" and "..."?

[P. R. D.]

Hello, I'm not sure if that's the right section but what exactly is the difference between "..." and "--" ?
I'm sorry for that question but It's all new for me. I now try to read as much books in English as possible and I couldn't help noticing that. I have no idea why both of them are used in one sentence, for example. Can you tell me, please?

 

[The Ace]

If you mean between dots and dashes, dots tend to symbolise a tailing-off as the speaker can't think of what to say next.

Dashes tend to represent excised swear-words.

 

[Lucien21]

They are completely different letters of the alphabet.

... is a "S"

-- is a "M"

 

[chopper]

Um, I think this is more about the difference between the ellipsis (...) and the dash (-).

Ellipses are more about words/sentences trailing off, i believe

Dashes are used more to separate thoughts or parts of a sentence in a stronger way than a comma.

So: "I think I'll get my coat..." he muttered to himself.

And: Cassia tugged the mule - suddenly recalcitrant and contrary - around the edge of the town’s market.

s

 

[Lucien21]

Um, I think this is more about the difference between the ellipsis (...) and the dash (-).

I wasn't being serious with the morse code joke.

 

[P. R. D.]

Thank you.

So, the dashes are used to make the dialogue realistic? They illustrate the uncertainty of the characters and that's all? Sorry but all those phrasal verbs in you previous post confused me and I couldn't get it quite well.


Edited:
Thanks Chopper, I get it now!

 

[Ursa major]

While we're on the subject, what about the use of different sorts of dashes: hyphens; "n" dashes; and "m" dashes?

I must admit, I get the impression that different publishers stick to one or other of them on a point of style/policy, but I haven't really been paying that much attention to know for sure.


(And does it really matter?)

 

[Thadlerian]

On the use of ellipsis and dash for ending sentences: The ellipsis is used when a sentence is trailing off, as if the speaker's voice dies in his throat as he starts to comprehend how huge that monster is. The dash is used when the voice is cut off, as when the monster jumps into view.

 

[chopper]

as far as i know, and this is only cos i did a little quick research on it an hour back, the difference is this:

hyphens join words together.
em-dashes and n-dashes are so named for the amount of space they take up on the page(em-dashes being the width of the letter m, and so forth).

so whether publishers use em- or n-dashes, i think, is down to in-house style (or possibly author preference? Teresa?). as to whether it matters...i dunno.

I wasn't being serious with the morse code joke.

actually i was replying to Ace's post....but he edited it while i was posting....

s

 

[Ursa major]

I've seen hyphens used where I'd expect to see dashes; I should have made it clear that I wasn't asking about the use of hyphen as hyphens. (Sorry!)

 

[chopper]

hmmm. maybe that's a stylistic thing. doesn't seem to be conventional usage, anyhoo.

 

[j d worthington]

Well, here's a fair amount of information on the difference in usage:

Dash (punctuation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Ellipsis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And I think that answers the question of whether or not it matters: yes, it does, as they indicate differing things. Try reading a passage aloud that contains various types of punctuation, and you'll find the reason why different symbols are used within the same passage. In the case of a dash within descriptive text or dialogue, it indicates, as has been noted, a separate but related thought within that sentence, hence verbally would indicate a spoken caesura, or pause; whereas ellipses would indicate a trailing off or rapid change from one thought to another (Celine used this quite often) where one doesn't return to the original thought, but continues to jump from point to point. The pause here is much like that when someone is speaking and hops from one thought to another as connections occur to them, but which are not tied together with any sort of segue; hence a trailing off or pause, sometimes followed by a new thought, where the speech itself is sometimes rushed (or, in some cases, the speech cadence becomes slower as the character grasps at and tries to clarify -- in their own mind -- nebulous thoughts) at the beginning of the expression of that new thought. (In the latter case, you might have something like... well, this... or -- perhaps -- some variant thereof....)

Em dashes and en dashes represent refinements and subtle gradients of these, or have specific uses of their own, such as contrasting relationships or linkages.

 

[Ursa major]

I was the one who asked whether it matters, JD, but I was referring exclusively to the use of different dashes, which (as I've said) seems to vary between publications.



By the way, in the Wiki article on the ellpsis, it does not refer to one usage I've seen, which is in dialogue where one speaker interrupts another: the first item of dialogue ends with an ellipsis, the second item starts with one.

 

[j d worthington]

I was the one who asked whether it matters, JD, but I was referring exclusively to the use of different dashes, which (as I've said) seems to vary between publications.



By the way, in the Wiki article on the ellpsis, it does not refer to one usage I've seen, which is in dialogue where one speaker interrupts another: the first item of dialogue ends with an ellipsis, the second item starts with one.

Hmmm. Usually, when I've seen that set-up, it's not a case of interruption, but one character finishing off the thought the other began. An interruption most often tends to be indicated by a dash, in my experience.

 

[Pyan]

Well...as anyone who's read any of my posts will know, I have this habit of using the ellipsis as a sort of pause between bits of the post...I think of it as being a kind of breath between thoughts.
It's probably very annoying to read...mind you, no-one's ever complained. And seeing that one of the uses is "to indicate a pause in speech", I suppose it's not too far from correct usage....any thoughts?

 

[j d worthington]

Well...as anyone who's read any of my posts, I have this habit of using the ellipsis as a sort of pause between bits of the post...I think of it as being a kind of breath between thoughts.
It's probably very annoying to read...mind you, no-one's ever complained. And seeing that one of the uses is "to indicate a pause in speech", I suppose it's not too far from correct usage....any thoughts?

Well, I certainly tend to use ellipses quite a bit... though I will admit it's nowhere near what Louis-Ferdinand did....

 

[Erin99]

I've seen hyphens used where I'd expect to see dashes; I should have made it clear that I wasn't asking about the use of hyphen as hyphens. (Sorry!)

I agree. And most authors seem to use either the m-dash or the n-dash, when, from what I can gather, they have different meanings. In the book I'm reading now, and indeed a few others I've read in the past, the hyphen is used in between hyphenated words, an n-dash is used to separate off a parenthetical expression that's not done so by commas or parentheses, and the m-dash is used at the end of a word when someone's sentence has been cut off.

So, here's some examples:

‘I think her ex-husband lied in court today.’
‘I think her ex-husband – who has a history of violence – lied in court today.’
‘I think her ex-husband – who has a history of violence – lied in court—’ She ended abruptly as she bumped into someone.

The m-dash is also used when a word or sentence is cut off during the sentence. Example:

'I think her ex-husband – who has a history of violence – lied in court— Argh! I trapped my finger in the door!'


See - there are three different types of dash/line/straight thing (), and they're three different lengths. Oh, and I'm talking about UK authors here.

This is how I arrange my story, anyway. Hope it helps!

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

... an n-dash is used to separate off a parenthetical expression that's not done so by commas or parentheses, and the m-dash is used at the end of a word when someone's sentence has been cut off.

Very helpful Leisha thanks.

However is there a right and wrong time to use the - instead of the comma or parentheses or is it down to personal choice. I always tend to use commas in the book I'm writing for an aside say (cos thats the way I was taught) however, there are places where dashes and brackets would possibly be more effective.

 

[Erin99]

A lot of it's down to personal choice, as you say. I've seen writers who prefer using dashes; others use brackets (the author I'm reading now, Robert Redick, prefers these – and colons. Loads of colons! Oh, but don't start me on the subject of his colons! ), and some authors rarely add in anything past a comma. Anyway, some occasions call for one form over another: I wouldn't, for example, use commas when my parenthetical expression already had a couple of them in it. Others might, but not me.

Example:

'I think her ex-husband – who has a history of violence, among a few other bad traits – lied in court today.'

Also, dashes and parentheses are useful when your extra info is too jarring – even with commas. Example:

Tommy only ate peas – it was a habit he'd had since childhood – and no one could get him to try anything else.

Or:

Tommy only ate peas (it was a habit he'd had since childhood), and no one could get him to try anything else.

Written with commas it sounds – and looks – wrong:

Tommy only ate peas, it was a habit he'd had since childhood, and no one could get him to try anything else.

In this case I'd add a semicolon and a full stop:

Tommy only ate peas; it was a habit he'd had since childhood. No one could get him to try anything else.

In the same way, some authors prefer semicolons over dashes and full stops over semicolons. Every one differs. If you ever get published, a good editor will respect your unique style and offer suggestions which reflect that.



(And I'm not published, by the way. I'm an aspiring author with a finished manuscript that's undergoing its final edit!)

Or is it perspiring author?

 

[Erin99]

Oh, and one more thing, since it's related. I've read in the Writers' and Artists' Yearbook that when you send your manuscript/s out to agents and editors, some prefer you to have double dashes to signify a dash (--), instead of using the m-dash or n-dash. This is also because fonts like Courier New can't display the two different versions of dash, and that's the font most Important People require your manuscript to be in.

However, that same book told me that authors should always use an underline to signify italics. But John Jarrold has said lately that he prefers to see italics as italics! So, as always, it's subjective. Every agent and editor is different. When I send off, I will use m-dashes, n-dashes, and Times New Roman size 12 – unless the agent asks for something different!