An -urgy conundrum.

[Malloriel]

Greetings all. This is my very first post after peeking around a bit, and I very much like the feedback I've seen, so I feel I'll definitely get real help with the questions I have.

Firstly, I've been developing a fantasy based realm, oh eight years now off and on. The atmosphere is that of several time periods, all pre-industrial revolution, giving each kingdom its own flavour, and magic is a fact of life.

Outside looking in, intricacies abound, beginning with 14 separate entities, seven sets of opposites, key in the creation of the world, and their lingering presence as elemental influences, and dragons. There is a Hold (or type) of dragon to correspond with each god, and were the first sentient beings created, to act as physical vessels for the essence of the gods, to maintain overall balance within the new world.

The gods then grouped up and combined their abilities to create the Amalayel, comprised of three races: The Varalaco, the Talimure, and the Inoci. Magic is a part of their genetic make up, so to use it would be as easy and natural to them as breathing to us. Things that they can do that would to us seem like impossible magic is as simple as walking to the fridge to them.

Humanoid races came next, and over several long draconic generations, evolved. Those that remained close with the dragons became known as the maiyenin, which maintained a sensitivity to the essences of Creation to allow some within each generation to wield particular magics. They also divided into four sub-groups, influenced by the terrain they claimed as eventual permanent residence: Glaiden of the forests, Shaelyn of the rivers, Aslain of the mountain snows, and Eth'en of the seas. It takes recognition to access the magic, which flows through the chosen maiyen (Soulain) as an outlet (much like a volcano, where a buildup of pressure can create a catastrophic explosion, or it can quietly release pressure throughout its lifetime). The recognition is like opening an inner door, or lifting a stop-gate to allow the flow to go through them unobstructed.

Those of the pre-maiyenin who did not remain close to the influence of the dragons became mortal, and for all intents and purposes, human, who have no inherent connectivity to magic, elemental essences, or divine influences. They are, however, (as in so many cases) one of the most versatile races, because of what they can learn to do. Magic is not natural to them, as humans have been far too long separated from, and eventually ignorant of the power and essences of the dragons. Dedication to an element, or several elements, unlocks the ability to learn certain magics, but intense study, spells, rituals, and physical items of power are required to grant access to using those magics. Refered to as magi, they use thaumaturgy, the physics of magic, rather than elemental essences of the natural universe itself.

And here is where we find my indecision. I thought, first, to go with the suffix of -mancy, thinking to create fields of study in things like pyromancy, aeromancy, scotomancy, and chronomancy, for example. One for each element. However, it's long been held that the suffix of -mancy refers to the process of divination, so that any word placed before it becomes the method of divination, rather than simply a class of magic. The suffix of -urgy at least means "work". I considered -logy as well, but decided it comes too close to the scientific study (as a connotation), rather than the dedicated study of a class of magic.

SO! I compiled two lists of -urgies to correspond with the 14 elemental classifications, one based on the old world names of the elements (used to name the draconic Holds), and the other based off of the names of the gods. My quandary is that not only can I not decide which set I prefer the sound of, but which naming origin is more appropriate.

I include a list of the elements and the god associated with it, followed by the potential -urgies. I really look forward to feedback, good and bad, opinions, choices, anything at all. Just be gentle. ^_^

Elements/Gods:

Darkness/Anthia (f)
Light/Jahriel (m)

Water/Rheianna (f)
Fire/Rhammyn (m)

Earth/Drianna (f)
Air/Tayle (m)

Life/Ciah (f)
Death/Rhune (m)

Time/Belithe (m)
Memory/Gairth (m)

Wisdom/Catrione (f)
Impetuosity/Mourathay (f)

Love/Reist (m)
Lust/Myla (f)


-urgies List 1: Elements:

Hanatalurgy

Sishaeurgy

Nalurgy

Kivenurgy

Hilurgy

Ghruilurgy

Eirullurgy

Hanavhelurgy

Rishullurgy

Csellurgy

Noranurgy

Iiluvalurgy

Vhealurgy

Urullurgy




-urgies List 2: Divine:

Anthurgy

Jahriurgy

Rheiurgy

Rhamurgy

Drianurgy

Taylurgy

Ciurgy

Rhunurgy

Beliurgy

Gairthurgy

Catriaturgy

Mourathurgy

Reisturgy

Mylurgy



So my post is very long, hopefully interesting and informative enough to aid anyone who'd like to help me decide, but not overwhelmed by unnecessary information. If you do have an opinion, but no time to reply, or no words of advice, or even if you HAVE words of advice and have given them, please stop and vote in the poll on your way out. Every little bit of help is so appreciated.

Thank you all who stop by to read or give critique.

-Malloriel

 

[Peter Graham]

Hello and welcome, Malloriel

Right. Down to business. My view is that you should do one of two things - either mix and match it all up (some 'urgies' and some 'logys') or think of your own suffix. The reason is simple - to make the book interesting to read and easy to follow. You currently have fourteen 'urgies' in your elemental list and I for one would find it hard to follow and differentiate between each of these.

I always think that words need to sound right and be interesting to read - check out the first Gormenghast book for a great example of an author with a true love of language. By contrast, your world creation system may be cohesive, but is going to look unwieldy and a little leaden. There are a number of possible reasons for this, not least that both 'urgy' and 'logy' are Greek suffixes and your fictional prefixes are not. It makes them look like what they are - made up words.

So, if you are inventing words, think first about how they sound and how easy they are to pronounce and remember. The story is everything, so don't be afraid to bend or trample over the rule book in order to make the story as gripping and interesting as possible.

Regards,

Peter

 

[Culhwch]

What is scotomancy, exactly? The process of divination via the visions you see after you're thumped by an angry Scotsman?

I have to say that I must throw my hat in with Peter. It certainly sounds like you have a very deeply imagined world, but I understand what it's like to get hung up on names and terminology. I would recommend as much simplicity as possible, and as Peter mentioned, a bit of clear distinction. It can be tricky introducing a vast array of terms into a narrative, especially in a natural way. It's all too easy to lose a reader through sheer confusion.

I'd like to hear more about your story. If you've got any excerpts and are willing, drop a post in the Critiques section.

 

[Ursa major]

What is scotomancy, exactly? The process of divination via the visions you see after you're thumped by an angry Scotsman?

Not just any old Scotsman, surely, but a Son of the Manse.


On a more serious note, I tend to agree that there is a lot of naming going on here. Now this is fine if most are never seen, but simply in your notes and your head; the temptation would be to shoehorn it all in at various point in the story. (Putting it all in an appendix would be okay, I guess, although there are those who don't like appendices. Mixing languages, though, is problematic.)


In SF and F, it is often hard enough to keep track of lots of characters (with out-of-the-ordinary names) without having to keep track of dozens of -urgys, -logys and -mancys as well.

 

[Malloriel]

I'm flattered and nervous. I've never actually gotten around to submitting a piece of my writing for true critique. And to respond to both of you as best I can all at once, I'll begin with scotomancy.

Scoto is a prefix meaning dark or darkness. People with scotophobia are those afraid of the dark, for example.

As for the -urgies in question: It wasn't until I saw a picture by a deviant art friend of a Chronomancer that I even thought of doing this. Time, within my realm, I've been working on elaborating upon more recently than the others, and to see a Chronomancer made me swell with all sorts of creative ticklings. Firstly, I was jealous, then I was over zealous, then I was overly complicated, and then very very confused. I have to admit, I'm not really satisfied with a mountain of -urgies either.

AS WELL!! Every other term is basically engineered. For example, the land is for all intents and purposes an empire, but the empress in charge is called a Dorosai. Her sister is the Dorae. If there was an emperor, as there was before this Dorosai's rule, he would be the Dorian. I've developed, and am still developing, the language of the maiyenin, as well as certain phrases and titles within the Varalaco (whose names follow this system: given name, the name of the father(for males) or mother(for females), clan, and any other title given, such as Jeryn gei och Noth solith Ralnatharin, Tegath och Solith (Jeryn, son of Noth, blood of clan Ralnatharin, Master of Blood, or Blood Master), or Jirah couv och Gasha't'ara solith Dieras'shull, Nagathstorei (Jirah, daughter of Gasha'tara, blood of clan Dieras'shull, Nightstalker).

And while there's really an abundance of information, I don't hit the reader over the head with it, or reveal everything all at once. There are far too many overlapping stories for me to want to infodump it all at once. As a matter of fact, Ursa (your comment btw, made me laugh a lot ^_^), there's a series called the Noble Dead, by Barb and J.C. Hendee that does try to shoehorn it in more than is necessary. They're more slavic names, full of strange consonant combinations, and far too many letters that are simply easier to skip over than bother pronouncing, and they refer to things such as landmarks in English first, and then later in the slavic-esque form, followed by the English used before, and I know I personally walked away with a feeling of that being entirely unnecessary, and that it was a tool to put in the words they'd created, but not lose the reader.

I've got so so so much information, some still only in my head, some in a file, some on a site, and it really is more of a reference for myself. Colours of the world, hidden flavours and secrets that need not be revealed, but just may be convenient now and then.

So then, I believe I'll take the advice given me so far, and compile a new sort of list entirely unique to my world. I do think that would sit better with me anyway. As it stands, my equivalent for what would be a necromancer is that Tegath och Sol above.

 

[Daniel Hetberg]

So then, I believe I'll take the advice given me so far, and compile a new sort of list entirely unique to my world.

I don't know if that is precisely the tenor of the advice... I think the main problem with a very unique naming convention is that nobody understands it, at first. It is a bit daunting that in order to read a story, you might first have to take a language and culture course to make any sense of it.

I would use custom titles and so on extremely sparingly in the day-to-day (page-to-page?) vocabulary of your story, maybe once to explain the title (if it's not REALLY clear from context), and then refer to them for dramatic impact (forgive my feeble improvisation):

"Igdalf was the Benern, the ruler of rulers, in the land of Antioch. [...] Igdalf does this and that, Igdalf says this and that. [...] 'Tell you what,' the masked noble snickered, 'we will poison the Benern'. Shocked silence ensued."


Giving names to things does not cure them, as in, if you go to a doctor and he tells you the latin name for your sprained ankle, you haven't gained anything. Telling people how people, schools of magic and things influence each other is more important ("you need to give your ankle some rest, put it up on a chair"). Or for the more mathematically minded, calling something a "Bessel function" or an "elliptic integral" does not make it easier to compute.

edit:

Also, don't hide behind made up names. It's no fun to read about Tegath och Sol's for half a novel to finally find out they're entirely not-so-exotic (for fantasy) necromancers. I'd like to point out this guideline, again, which I personally have found really helpful:

• "Call a Rabbit a Smeerp"
  A cheap technique for false exoticism, in which common elements of the real world are re-named for a fantastic milieu without any real alteration in their basic nature or behavior. "Smeerps" are especially common in fantasy worlds, where people often ride exotic steeds that look and act just like horses. (Attributed to James Blish.)

From the Turkey City Lexicon.

edit edit:
Calling someone a Tegath och Sol (in the sense that this means something in a native language of your fantasy world) is not unreasonable, but would it be so bad to call him Animator of Dead Flesh, or Abuser of Corpses or something that means the same thing, but uses a language that is accessible to your reader? I mean, if you really don't want to use the word Necromancer because it appears drab to you.

 

[Malloriel]

--Smiles-- The problem is I can't explain everything I have and everything I do with it all at once, so I appreciate every take I'm given on the information I provide. I don't BELIEVE I run around with a flock of smeerps in my wake. The Blood Masters are holy men, who serve as traditional necromancers were seen to serve; raising the spirits of the departed to gain wisdom and insight. they also work blood magic, a dangerous affair that most other races are not only afraid of, but that carries a heavy enough price that few are willing to attempt any of it. There are several beneficial things that blood magic can provide an individual, or a group, and several adverse conditions it can impart, depending on the intent used while working. So in the most in depth sense, the Tegath och Sol are not what we in the real world consider our necromancers to be any more, but as a quick lay term, I found it works well enough.

And I've worked up the nerve to put a sample chapter in the critique section, which has several terms and words unique to Eleasia, which I hope aren't presented in a way that loses the reader, but helps them feel included in a fantasy world where things are familiar, but not of reality. Believably so, I hope. At least, the sample will be there shortly. I hope you'll take a look and give an opinion there as well, and perhaps that will address some of the very valid points you've brought up here.

edit: Also, the term would only be used within the Varalaco society, or by scholars. Everyone else discussing them would use the Common equivalent. However, I feel knowing what a race would use within its own society is an important shade within a world, if you're going to do in depth worldbuilding. Developing the intricacies allows you to portray them with so much more depth than I think you'd be able to do otherwise, such as the name they introduce themselves with having so much information in it, but not being what everyone calls them. Jeryn would be Jeryn to most, or on formal occasions, Tegath Jeryn, simply being Master Jeryn.