What do you dislike most about sf/f?

[Brian G Turner]

No, it's a good point - some of us here are real sticklers for realism.

 

[dwndrgn]

Well, eveyone else wrote about big things, and my gripe is so small by comparison . . . but I wonder about the little things. When do the horses get to stop running and eat? If they rode all day, didn't they have to go to the bathroom really badly? If they're in the middle of the desert with no supplies, why aren't they dropping like flies? Why don't they get sunburned? Is there a spell for sunscreen? I know these things are piddling, but they make me absolutely insane. Maybe it's hard to think of the manly hero needing to pee, but I worry about his bladder control. Or in a battle that goes on for days . . . I mean, are they just soiling their chainmail? What's going on here?

Maybe I'm too practical to read fantasy . . .

You don't see this in most fiction - mainly I think the authorstend to want to assume that the reader can infer that Joe Hero takes a wizz on the side of the road...I mean, how exciting and story forwarding is it to describe a trip to the loo? Sometimes it becomes a plot point (first image that comes to mind is a western where someone is shot in the communal outhouse) so you see it there, otherwise it is boring and left out. I used to complain about this type of thing, mainly for female roles. There are very few menstruating females in fiction (pardon guys). Now, I'm all for realism and whatnot but I really have no need to read about someone else's tribulations in the washroom...

 

[Princess Ivy]

You don't see this in most fiction - mainly I think the authorstend to want to assume that the reader can infer that Joe Hero takes a wizz on the side of the road...I mean, how exciting and story forwarding is it to describe a trip to the loo? Sometimes it becomes a plot point (first image that comes to mind is a western where someone is shot in the communal outhouse) so you see it there, otherwise it is boring and left out. I used to complain about this type of thing, mainly for female roles. There are very few menstruating females in fiction (pardon guys). Now, I'm all for realism and whatnot but I really have no need to read about someone else's tribulations in the washroom...

Hehehehehe

 

[BlueSkelton]

I agree wholeheartedly with Brian I am taking a Fiction class this semester and it seems like alot of the Quality Science fiction is overlooked for their anthologies Its all most as if it is some form of subfiction or inferior form of fiction. I mean sure there is alot of crap published We ve all read those books that were so bad we had to laugh but thats true with any genre. I love this forum its good to see all of you again thank you for letting me participate I just wish that i had more time to come here more often

 

[Brian G Turner]

We'll keep the homefires burning for you are here, Blue Skeleton.

 

[polymorphikos]

My teacher made the point that

a) it wasn't on the syllabus

and

b) they thought a lot of people had trouble understanding it.

And yet Gabriel Garcia Marques is just so accessible. Chronicle of a Death Foretold had the idiots in class making the teacher stop and answer questions every five lines.

My last Lit teacher was quite accepting of sf/f, however.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Definitely depends upon thet teacher.

One of my English teachers was a big HP Lovecraft fan.

 

[littlemissattitude]

Definitely depends upon thet teacher.

One of my English teachers was a big HP Lovecraft fan.

Agreed, Brian. I know, when I was at university, I took a class in popular fiction, and most of what we read was either detective fiction or science fiction/fantasy. The two exceptions were "Othello" and "Catcher in the Rye" (which kind of disappointed me - "Othello" is my least favorite Shakespeare, and "Catcher" is probably my least favorite novel). We read "The Fellowship of the Ring", we read a Heinlein novel ("Farnham's Freehold"), we read a Vonnegut novel (something about Mars, as I recall)...all good stuff. On the other hand, in a world literature class once, the professor got all huffy when we read Kafka's "Metamorphosis" and a couple of us commented that it was about time we read some sf/fantasy.

As far as science fiction or fantasy being hard to understand...huh? Why would it be any more difficult to understand than any other fiction? That just isn't a valid objection, as far as I can see. I've read some literary short stories that were much more difficult to follow than any science fiction or fantasy I've ever read.

 

[Maledoro]

What I hate is when there are so many "Sci-Fi Elements" put together that the story is in danger of being a "Fantasy". Mind you, I have nothing against fantasy, but, when they start laying on all this time travel and alternate universes, etc., and they get used as a crutch for the story, then there's too much deus ex machina (God from a machine) where anything illogical or preposterous can happen, "just because".

 

[polymorphikos]

(A note to Maledoro: this is not inspired by your post, nor directed at you)

I'd also like to step-up in defence of pulp from fans of "hard" sf. Whilst many might dismiss it as trivial and mindless, and in many instances it is, pulp is the starting-point of most sciencefiction. The genre was born out of populist serials that caught the imaginations of people of the times, who in turn matured and let their tastes mature with them, resulting in the eventual birth of giants such as Asimov, Clarke and the like.

And yet many seemingly highly-developed pieces of sf are just pulkpy space-opera with a new coat of paint. See Vinge's "A Fire Upon the Deep", a fine novel with lots of interesting points and well-thought-out worlds, but still just a pulp adventure.

And besides, countless easily-dismissed novels have layer upon layer of sub-text. Look at Skylark Three, for example, which is a slightly ham-fisted dig at stubborn politics wrapped in a layer of brilliant imagination.

I guess my whole point in this is not that I don't like hard sf, because I do, and nor is it that pulp is necessarily as literary, but I think that the sheer effort that goes into coming up with these worlds (not an easy feat unless you've got a knack for deep imagining) is just as worthy of praise as any other aspect of a book.

So, yeah, I'm attacking the snobs within the sf establishment. Pulp is a fine thing, and most sf/f wouldn't exist without Howard, Smith and Burroughs.

 

[Maledoro]

Being one who was raised on Hard Sci-Fi, I would have to agree with you. I roll my eyes whenever I tell someone that I read sci-fi and they say, "Here, read this. You'll love it!" and the cover has a guy riding a horselike alien creature with a hot chick wearing a huge medallion that says "I used to be royalty" and the guy has a laser sword at his side.

If it's fantasy, then it should be labeled as such.

 

[willb]

On the subject of realism and fantasy / sf, Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson has a small part of its plot revolving around geeky roleplayers wanting to create a coherent fantasy world in which to roleplay; they work hard on working out detailed rules for energy required in gathering food and energy gained from eating it. And it is really a great book. So while the mechanics of human bodily needs may not (necessarily) make interesting reading, a book including characters who think about bodily functions can be.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Being one who was raised on Hard Sci-Fi, I would have to agree with you. I roll my eyes whenever I tell someone that I read sci-fi and they say, "Here, read this. You'll love it!" and the cover has a guy riding a horselike alien creature with a hot chick wearing a huge medallion that says "I used to be royalty" and the guy has a laser sword at his side.

If it's fantasy, then it should be labeled as such.

I just had to laugh at that.

The sff genre is a like a Tardis from Doctor Who - to people on the outside it may look very small and narrow, but from the inside it's far bigger and much richer in construction.

 

[Lacedaemonian]

It is a real challenge keeping my mouth shut!

 

[Princess Ivy]

I just had to laugh at that.

The sff genre is a like a Tardis from Doctor Who - to people on the outside it may look very small and narrow, but from the inside it's far bigger and much richer in construction.

But that is the way with so many things. even breaking down to sf, time travel, and a whole new world opens, same with all sub genres.

 

[aurelio]

A general question -

"What do you dislike most about sf/f?"

There are two things I can think of right off the top of my head that really bug me. One is deliberately "unusual" character names - everyone here knows what I'm talking about. Long and illegible jumbles of words without vowels. There are usually too many of them all in the same story too. I find when I'm reading names I can't sound out easily in my head, it disrupts my flow and pulls me out of the story.

The other is convenient magic. "All powerful" beings that are suddenly not, simply to suit the plot. Or there's the "secret power from within" that appears on right on cue. A corallary is the "predestined" hero/heroine - once you know they are predestined, HELLO!!! - you might as well close the book! It's a done deal!

 

[jonak]

I think it's um... a question of what you like really. Who cares what other writers are writing about. I personally LOVE science-fiction. Another part of me feels that I've been there and done it, possibly eons ago, perhaps in different times than these. That may sound funny, but it's the way I feel. And it's also my explanation of why I'm so fascinated by space and so interested and intriguied by sci-fi movies, people and different cultures. I can't get enough of it. As long as you're aware of who you are, and that you aren't one of those teens who're involved with one of those popular trends, then you're golden. If you respect the genre the way it's supposed to be respected, you're in for free. As long as your writing is good, who gives a crap right?

 

[scalem X]

The thing I dislike is:'errm damn I want to live in such a world, why do they have such an interesting life and I have to be damn here.' I am sure I would have been a great knight. Even in this world I have minor experience in battling with a sword and nunchaku's and even a bow and along with my karate and tricking skills I should make no bad warrior I think. Damn why have these values disappeared and are we living in a society where you can survive if you cannot even lift your own weight? A world were fighting isn't fighting anymore? A little example of the current American war tactics:
Soldier1:damn a building of 10 stories!
Soldier2:'call an airstrike, call an airstrike'
Boom BOOM BOOM
Soldier1:damn the left part hasn't exploded
Soldier2:'call an airstike, call an airstrike'
Boom BOOM BOOM
Soldier1amn I saw something moving
Soldier2:now anxious;'call an airstike, call an airstrike'
Boom BOOM BOOM
Soldier1:mmm nothing moves
Soldier2:Let's engage
Soldier1ops it was a :....... (choose one; hospital/school/abandoned home/a hideout for enemy snipers/an appartement)
Let's say it was the most unlikely (hideout for enemy snipers), do you call this a fight?

 

[zorcarepublic]

I hate the fact that all science fiction nowadays seems to be less about science fiction and more about interpersonal relationships, like soap operas rather than space operas. I also hate changes made to old programmes to bring them up to date.

For instance, while I have not watched the new series of BSG, from what I hear it is vastly different from the old BSG which I was fortunate enough to see. I don't mean to step on anyones toes here, but I hate what the new BSG seems to be. Human-style Cylons? They're supposed to look like clunking hunks of metal-that was the attraction for me!

 

[Rane Longfox]

Returning to an earlier point, I do find there is a lot of snobbery towards sci-fi and fantasy amongst all the English teachers at our school. I don't do english at A-level, I got bored of the poetry, but I'm in a book club run by one of the teachers, and when I suggested some nice, short, easy Neal Asher or Iain M. Banks, I was laughed out of the room. I said I was even prepared to stoop as low as David Eddings if they really wanted, but they still sniffed at it as "too unrealistic to be worth bothering with". We read Animal Farm a couple of months before with no problem though. Stupid...