Deathly Hallows - death watch *EXPECT SPOILERS*

[Lenny]

In Leish's thread I said:

Just a bit more on the deaths... in fact, no, I'll start a new thread specifically for them. Anyone mind? I mean, we've got this thread for overall thoughts, one for Teps answered and unanswered questions, why not one specifically for deaths?

Et voila! Use this thread to talk about the deaths, in much more depth than you might do in another thread.

---

Just a list of deaths (forgive me if I miss someone, I'm a wee bit tired).

EDIT: Knew I'd forgotten some - Ted Tonks, and the person with him. Dirk, wasn't it?

And Colin Creevy. And how on earth did I miss Wormtail?!

So my updated list now is:

- Professor Charity Burbage
- Hedwig
- Mad-Eye Moody
- Rufus Scrimgeour
- Wormtail
- Dobby the House Elf
- Ted Tonks and co.
- Fred Weasley
- Professor Snape
- Crabbe
- Nagini
- Bellatrix Lestrange
- Tonks
- Lupin
- Colin Creevey

And, of course, Voldie.

 

[HoopyFrood]

Dear me, I'm weak...haven't finished the book, but couldn't help looking at this thread Still, the more I've been reading, the more I suspected some of the above. Now it's just a case of reading about them! I don't mind, as I've said, I've not a raving fan of Harry Potter so I don't mind finding out about this kind of stuff. The story is all right thus far, I guess, it's not riveting. Kind of looking forward to finishing so I can get back to Royal Assassin, to be honest!

 

[The Ace]

Errrrm plus 50 assorted Hogwarts students. Do we mention the giant spiders ?

 

[PTeppic]

I found the story entirely rivetting, but as I've said in one of the other threads, apart from Dobby the deaths were very casual. Yes, it's a genuine magical battle, but so many of the "main" character deaths were either merely mentioned in passing (oops, Fred's still on the ground) or could have been one of several people (it's someone red-haired out of a group of three red-haired people - pick a straw and they're it). I felt no compassion or emotion, or even sympathy. It's almost as if they died because they had to. We couldn't have so much fighting without including deaths, and so many deaths without it being people we knew would be unlikely (e.g. LOTR trilogy, perhaps even OotP finale), so "lets just pick a few of those we know and happen to mention they died".

It's the same with Ace's point: "and fifty others". Let's think who was there: staff, students (should only be 17+), house elves, the Order, and the Death Eaters. Just typing aloud here, but, we've been introduced to most of the Order, so presumably it was mostly not them. There're probably only about fifteen staff at Hogwarts and you'd expect we'd be told about them. Assuming each year is as per Harry's, then it's 40 strong. Everyone in 7th year is "of age" and on average half the 6th too, though some others below age crept in: say 75 pupils (likely to be a lot less since most Slytherins aren't likely to have stayed and maybe many of the of-age too). But of those, two thirds are Harry's year, and most others are either the year below or are likely to be DA members: most of whom we've been introduced to in the series (e.g. was Lavender Brown dead, or "just" mauled, like Bill?). So, of the humans fighting against Voldemort, we'd have to assume that the vast majority are actually people we know and have come familiar with, and so since they're not named, can it be any of them? Many faceless house elves, perhaps, late pawns who fall in high numbers? Or, finally, do we assume that the majority to fall were Death Eaters? In which case, unless they were killed by cross-fire from Voldemort or their colleages, you have an army of 2/3rds pupils killing on a wide scale... not likely... She doesn't make many but I think this was a small error on JKR's part, not thinking through the implication of a tiny little thought: "not enough deaths for the scale of the battle, so let's add some: and fifty others" without double-checking who was there, etc.

 

[little smaug]

I can see why the deaths weren't detailed in the final battle - it is a battlefield, which means there are no drawn out monologues, no dying words, no noble deaths. It's hard, it's fast and it's brutal. In that respect, I think Jo captured the atmosphere perfectly.

And yet it's that point that made me sure one of the major characters would die right at the end, after all of the fighting had finished, cut down by a stray Avada Kedavra from a fleeing Death Eater. Because for all the unnamed masses who give up their lives defending who and what they love, there will always be a single figure who dies for no reason.

 

[PTeppic]

I was sure Molly was to be that person, after her dramatic dealing with Bellatrix...

 

[Adasunshine]

In Leish's thread I said:

Et voila! Use this thread to talk about the deaths, in much more depth than you might do in another thread.

---

Just a list of deaths (forgive me if I miss someone, I'm a wee bit tired).

EDIT: Knew I'd forgotten some - Ted Tonks, and the person with him. Dirk, wasn't it?

And Colin Creevy. And how on earth did I miss Wormtail?!

So my updated list now is:

- Professor Charity Burbage
- Hedwig
- Mad-Eye Moody
- Rufus Scrimgeour
- Wormtail
- Dobby the House Elf
- Ted Tonks and co.
- Fred Weasley
- Professor Snape
- Crabbe
- Nagini
- Bellatrix Lestrange
- Tonks
- Lupin
- Colin Creevey

And, of course, Voldie.

Can't forget poor ol' Bathilda Bagshot... *shudders at that particular scene*

xx

 

[Lenny]

And I've just re-read Gregorovitch's demise.

I have to say, there are far too many deaths to keep track of.

 

[PTeppic]

It's the nature of warfare....

 

[Tabasco]

Can't forget poor ol' Bathilda Bagshot... *shudders at that particular scene*

xx

Geez... yeah. What kind of special effects will that take in the movie? 50 lbs. of ground beef? I had to put the book down for a second after reading that.

 

[little smaug]

I want them to go the way of Alien and make it hilarious rather than scary.

 

[Sirathiel]

I'm not wholly through the book yet - 40 pages left and stuck at work *gah*. I keep trying to avoid all these threads though I really want to read them and jump in with my own opinion. *big sigh* So I've skimmed through this one, read the list up to Snape and then stopped, since he's the last one I read die.

I've got to say that Dobby's end made me cry. Or would have if I hadn't been sitting in a bus full of people. But I really wanted to cry. His death was very unfair and very touching. A badly aimed silver knife? But he saved Harry, probably in more ways than one. Well, even if it sounds morbid: Thumbs up for Dobby's death. Very well written and heart touching.

As to the others... they kinda left me cold. Well not cold, but they didn't squeeze at my heart. It was more along the line of: 1 death, 2 deaths, 3 deaths... And I have to agree that they mostly happened "off-page" or in the middle of the big battle. No time to really dwell on them. Not for the people around, nor for the author.
SIDENOTE: Tolkien pulled this off though: gave depth and meaning to isolated incidents on the battle field. Going full out in his descriptions and all that. But then, ... we don't know that many people on the battlefield before Gondor than in the battle of Hogwarts...

I might be back later, once I've finished the book.
~Sira.

 

[DarkIntentions]

I finished the book this morning and I can't even remember reading that Bellatrix died. Hmm still thinking. .. wdh.

 

[HoopyFrood]

Another missing from the list...Gellert Grindelwald, killed by Voldemort in Nurmengard prison.

 

[Lenny]

Gods... pick my list apart, why don't you all?

 

[kythe]

I am quite surprised that none of the "main" characters died. Despite the sheer number of deaths, many of these people were created as disposable characters. Charity Burbage, Ted Tonks, and Bathilda Bagshot were unknowns to us until they appeared right before their deaths. Although tragic, it just isn't as emotionally moving as if Hagrid or McGonagall had been lost in battle.

It also seems to me that more adults died than kids. Sure, the number "50" is thrown out at the end, but it still feels like more experienced aurors fall than students. I think the last battle could have had more impact if a kid we know well, like Luna or Ginny, had been among the 50.

 

[PTeppic]

It also seems to me that more adults died than kids. Sure, the number "50" is thrown out at the end, but it still feels like more experienced aurors fall than students. I think the last battle could have had more impact if a kid we know well, like Luna or Ginny, had been among the 50.

At the end of the day, wouldn't the adults present be doing all they can to protect any "children" who have stayed (with due note that those staying should have been "of age" anyway)? As such they are likely to be getting themselves into the line of fire deliberately, and so more likely to be injured.

It also means I forgot a section in my "how come 50 died who we didn't know by name" spiel above - any Aurors and related adults who came to try to help Hogwarts at its hour of need. But I still think JKR didn't fully think through that minor detail (which can be forgiven judging against all the detail she did think through)!

 

[Markida]

I think the death of Fred Weasley was shocking enough for my liking. To the point that it made me cry

 

[DarkIntentions]

To be honest whenever I came to the point when I noticed Fred or George was to speak I would skip reading their name without realising it, When I do that it is hard to have a relationship between myself and the character and to me the twins were just one person, Tbh I didn't really care about Fred dying as I still had George to entertain me.

Ooh that is so wrong. Maybe it stems from when I was younger and there was this boy who fancied me and was an indentical twin and I never got to know HIM because I couldn't tell whether I was speaking to him or his brother. To this day I don't know which one it was who fancied me.

I'm rambling.

 

[bookaholic]

Well, because I'm me, I've always liked Fred better than George. No idea why,I just do. I read the passage when Fred dies aloud to my brother and I burst into tears halfway through. Poor Fred