Captain Jack - The Face of Boe?

Ian Moone

New Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
1
Okay, so I've been reading the threads and I have rewatched episodes of Doctor Who, including "The End of the Word", "New Earth" and "Gridlock", along with some episodes of Torchwood. And from what I can gather it is likely that Jack Harkness could be the Face of Boe due to many circumstances discussed in "The End of the World", "New Earth", and "Gridlock."
During "The End of the World" the artistic event of watching the Earth burn during the expansion of the sun was said by the Steward that the event was sponsered by the Face of Boe, my question is why would a micellaneous alien lifeform sponser an event about the Earth. This lays the possible frame work of RTD knowing about the Face's and Jack's possible connection from the start.
At the end of "New Earth" the doctor goes back to talk to the Face of Boe, and the Face first starts to speak to the Doctor and Rose (who was still inhabited by Cassandra) using telepathy, of which in episodes of Torchwood, Jark Harkness has developed a limited degree of telepathy since he became immortal (e.g. Rose bringing him back to life in "The Parting of Ways").
Next the Face says how he has grown tired of the universe, but the Doctor has taught him to look at it anew. Throughout the first series with the Ninth Doctor, Jack says during the "Parting of Ways" that he was better off as a coward, but the Doctor taught him to stand up for what is right. Also in the episode "The Sound of Drums" the Master when talking on the phone to the Doctor, tells him how the Doctor is the man who "makes people better." Also with every companion the Doctor has changed their outlooks on life, and the Face of Boe sees the universe anew from the Doctor.
The Doctor then says to the Face in "New Earth" that there are legends saying that the Face is millions of years old. The Face simply replies by saying that would be impossible. Later in series 3 in the episode "Utopia" (i think) The Doctor calls Jack an Impossible thing. Also throughout the series the Doctor has discussed how he likes impossible. Just another connection.
Finally, during "New Earth" the Doctor talks to the Face about the secret (e.g. "Gridlock" being told that he is not alone) and the Face says that he and the Doctor will meet for a third and last time, my next questions are, how would the Face know for a fact that he and the doctor would meet again, and how would the Face know that the Doctor, who has recently regenerated was actually the Doctor. A possible answer to these questions are that The Face of Boe is actually Jack Harkness.
During the episode "Gridlock" Once Martha Jones and the Doctor arrive on New Earth again, their is a small clip of the Face of Boe and Novie Hane, he tells her that the Doctor has arrived and that she should find him before it is too late. Once Novice Hane finds the Doctor and brings him to the senate building. The Face had wired himself into the mainframe to support the undercity, giving his life for them. This in turn ends the Face of Boe's life. When Martha returns from the undercity she asks who is he, the doctor in turn replies that he doesnt even really know. The Face of Boe calls the Doctor, "an old friend" (however this was revealed to be a line inserted by RTD during the production of the episode at the last minute) Next, the Face says he has seen too much, and that he and the Doctor are the last of their kind, however he then speaks the secret to the Doctor that "[he is] not alone" This of course refering to the Master being alive in the year Three Hundred Trillion. However, how could the Face of Boe know for a fact that the Master existed somewhere in time without the Doctor even knowing. This possibly implies how Captain Jack (who heard Martha mention the Face in front of the Doctor) figured out that he might be the Face someday, (since during the book "Monsters and Villains" Jack says how he saw someone dressed up as "The Face of Boe" revealing that he at least knows of what the actual Face of Boe is. Of course this is probably from knowlegde of living in the 51st century, in which the Face may have been a prominent figure in society then.) This possible realization of Jack being The Face may have lead to The Face knowing when the Doctor would arrive to meet him as the Face and to keep time lines consistant he never told the Doctor who he really was.
And of course we all know about how Captain Jack says that he used to be the poster boy for the Time Agency, "The Face of Boe they called me." This possibly alluds to Captain Jack, the Immortal Time Traveller from the 51st century being the actual "Face of Boe."
According to the tie in book "Monsters and Villains" the Face had 6 children during the 2001st century that lived for 40 years each, the average lifespan. This shows how the Face of Boe lives abnormally long for his species, and as a possible humanoid Time agent at the beginning of the series Jack Harkness was at least 34 years old. after he became immortal in "The Parting of Ways" he said in "Utopia" he "bounced" using his time agent gear and ended up at the end of the 19th century. Lets say roughly 1880. Jack then lived from 1880 to 2007 until he re-found the Doctor in "Utopia" That already makes Jack approximately 160 years old, give or take a decade. Then during the Torchwood episode "Exit Wounds" Jack is taken back to Cardiff in 27 A.D. by Captain John and Jack's brother Gray. He lives through all of that up till 2008 when he is released from his cryogenic state (due to being placed into that under his own free will by 19th Century Torchwood) making Captain Jack possibly about 2143 years old. However since cryogenics froze him his body never aged so he'd be more around the lines 2018 years old. This longevity in his lifespan adds to how the Face of Boe could live so much longer than his actual species could. And with the Face of Boe being around in the year 5 billion and 23 (Year given in "New Earth") that means that the face of Boe could truely be billions of years old.
All of that of course is just what I picked up from watching the series once agian of tv when i was bored. And I know that was a bit long, but that is what I found to be the connections between Jack and the Face of Boe.
 

PTeppic

Reetou Diplomatic Corp
Joined
May 31, 2001
Messages
3,337
The Doctor then says to the Face in "New Earth" that there are legends saying that the Face is millions of years old. The Face simply replies by saying that would be impossible.
I always assumed that it was the Face acknowledging it, with a sly acceptance to the Doctor who clearly was in the know, whilst "publicly" denouncing such a thing as impossible... since it would pretty much admit he was immortal... which even by then he probably wouldn't want to do.
 

Ursa major

Bearly Believable
Staff member
Supporter
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
21,752
Location
England
And there may be another joke here, given how big-headed Captain Jack is.
 

Relsoh

New Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2008
Messages
3
I'd Just like to say, because I don't think anyone has mentioned it, but it does actually say in "The Long Game" that the Face of Boe announced that he was pregnant - "Face of Boe expecting Baby Boemina". This just goes to show that anything can happen if a male, big head can get pregnant, then I guess its possible that it can be Jack.
 

Dave

Non Bio
Staff member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Messages
19,554
Location
Way on Down South, London Town
What if the Face of Boe had changed sex at that time and so could get pregnant?

What if... Jack turns into River Song?

Or... River Song is Baby Boemina?
 

Relsoh

New Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2008
Messages
3
Well in that episode the Face of Boe is still male, it says "The Face of Boe has just announced that he is pregnant", so Jack wouldn't even need to change gender if he is in fact the Face of Boe.
 

Davyd

New Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
1
Rose absorbed the power contained within the heart of the TARDIS and used it to breathe life into Jack. I don't think she absorbed all the power of the TARDIS and therefore the energy infused into Jack would run out at some point - apparently it runs for 5 billion and 53 years.

Another possibility is that Jack as Boe has not died at all. He obviously has evolved at some point from the humanoid Jack into Big Face - maybe Boe's death is yet another stage in this evolution process. He might now exist as pure TARDIS energy and is floating around the universe.

Possible - or is my imagination working overtime?
Jack's imortality is not a matter of how much energy was infused into him, as the doctor said he had become a fixed point in time including an occassion when he mentioned something about even the darleks recognised he is a fixed point in time. This does put the possiblity of Jack being the face of Boe into question again for some, only if you can't answer the question of what does it mean to be a fixed point in time as an individual and not an event. The latter is something the doctor has mentioned (do not expect me to quote any references my little memory dont work that way, but feel free to challenge anything I say and I will feel free to ignore you or not) more than once about some events being fixed points and his ability to see the difference. So as a fixed point in time is there a difference between that and imortality? There are many chances for the doctor to see face of Boe again in his timeline. Like there are always more threads to these topics.
 

darkerdave

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Messages
11
Location
star wars, doctor who
Jack's imortality is not a matter of how much energy was infused into him, as the doctor said he had become a fixed point in time including an occassion when he mentioned something about even the darleks recognised he is a fixed point in time. This does put the possiblity of Jack being the face of Boe into question again for some, only if you can't answer the question of what does it mean to be a fixed point in time as an individual and not an event. The latter is something the doctor has mentioned (do not expect me to quote any references my little memory dont work that way, but feel free to challenge anything I say and I will feel free to ignore you or not) more than once about some events being fixed points and his ability to see the difference. So as a fixed point in time is there a difference between that and imortality? There are many chances for the doctor to see face of Boe again in his timeline. Like there are always more threads to these topics.
well put - i agree though!!
 

timelord1

New Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
1
You're wrong. Jack hawkness isn't Human! he's an alien from another planet, the only survivor of his kind (explained in season 3 of torchwood.)
When the Face of Boe refer back to his kinds he was mentioning his origins. (which is not human)
 

PTeppic

Reetou Diplomatic Corp
Joined
May 31, 2001
Messages
3,337
You're wrong. Jack hawkness isn't Human! he's an alien from another planet, the only survivor of his kind (explained in season 3 of torchwood.)
When the Face of Boe refer back to his kinds he was mentioning his origins. (which is not human)
Which post are you disagreeing with?
 

scifriday

Member
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
20
Rose absorbed the power contained within the heart of the TARDIS and used it to breathe life into Jack. I don't think she absorbed all the power of the TARDIS and therefore the energy infused into Jack would run out at some point - apparently it runs for 5 billion and 53 years.

Another possibility is that Jack as Boe has not died at all. He obviously has evolved at some point from the humanoid Jack into Big Face - maybe Boe's death is yet another stage in this evolution process. He might now exist as pure TARDIS energy and is floating around the universe.

Possible - or is my imagination working overtime?
So you're saying Boe "ascended"?
 

roogomez188

New Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2011
Messages
1
You're wrong. Jack hawkness isn't Human! he's an alien from another planet, the only survivor of his kind (explained in season 3 of torchwood.)
When the Face of Boe refer back to his kinds he was mentioning his origins. (which is not human)
No, but he is. Yes, he comes from the future. But they are humans from the future!
 

Dave

Non Bio
Staff member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Messages
19,554
Location
Way on Down South, London Town
But I thought Sir Mervyn King was the face of BoE....
That brings up the question of what exactly is the Boe of which he is the face of. Boe could be a planet or a geographical region, but it could equally be the Bank of England or the Board of Education.

I think the jury is still out on whether Jack is a human or not. He is humanoid, but not all humanoids are human. He is from the future and conceivably from an Earth colony, but that has not yet been determined. He does appear to be human in every way though. Torchwood has shown that. However, it has still never been explicitly said and so it is pointless to argue over it.
 

lordoskuro

New Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
3
When Face of Boe says that he is the last of his specie I think he maybe talks about the Time Agents (with this point of view he can be Jack Harkness), also can be older than the Time Lords because in some point of Jack Harkness life he travelled back to the universe origins.

Don't you think so?
 

QueenMagrat

New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
3
When Face of Boe says that he is the last of his specie I think he maybe talks about the Time Agents (with this point of view he can be Jack Harkness), also can be older than the Time Lords because in some point of Jack Harkness life he travelled back to the universe origins.

Don't you think so?
Is Time Agents a species?
He may have traveled to the beginning of the universe, but that does not mean that it was time that actually passed for him. He might have nipped there for ten minutes and only been ten minutes older, not as old as the universe itself. Though he might still grow older than the Time Lords if his actual personal lived time is longer than that of the time lords. though if he is from the future, they will always have been there before him...right?:confused:
He might as well have founded their nation and we just don't know about it. He probably had enough time to time-travel in his 5 billion years of living.

Time travel is a tricky business :rolleyes:
 

PTeppic

Reetou Diplomatic Corp
Joined
May 31, 2001
Messages
3,337
When Face of Boe says that he is the last of his specie I think he maybe talks about the Time Agents (with this point of view he can be Jack Harkness
Was Jack ever actually a Time Agent... I thought he just stole the technology from a Time Agent! (probably after sleeping with him/her/it)
 

Dave

Non Bio
Staff member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Messages
19,554
Location
Way on Down South, London Town
I never thought that "Time Agents" were another species. I actually thought they were the same as the "Space Agents" from the William Hartnell era The Dalek Master Plan but that may not be so. I thought Jack was a humanoid rather than a Human. I also agree with PTeppic that he stole the arm thing, and so may not be a Time Agent at all. He has either lied or been economical with the truth over other things. Mind you, if he did steal the technology, why have the real Time Agents never caught up with him?
 

lordoskuro

New Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
3
Jack said in last episode S3 drwho that he was one of the very first Time Agents, so how can he stole tecnology if he is actually one? Also on Torchwood he met his old friend (Spike on Buffy vampireslayer xDDDD) and they were partners on Time Agency. Also maybe he said "kind" but referring about the last of Time Agents, indeed of humans/humanoid, nope? Do you know what I mean?
 
Top