The Revived Tolkien Trivia

farntfar

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Thank you HB.


We have heard how Ghan-beri-Ghan sounded more sweet to some people.
What was ripped from someone who sounded like they were more ruddy?
 
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farntfar

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We have to assume they were definitely fairly ruddy by the time it was ripped from them.
 

The Big Peat

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Hmm. Nothing was ripped from Rufus Burrows. Or any of the various Rudi-something Bolgers. Time to keep thinking...
 

The Judge

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Assuming "precious" was a clue, is it the ring, and was the fish Deagol caught a rudd??

(I was half-remembering he pulled the ring out of the fish, but thinking about it further, he just found it after the fish pulled him into the water, so that doesn't help...)
 

farntfar

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No I'm afraid precious wasn't a clue, precious. It was before Borrowses and Bolgerses and even before poor Smeagol, when the world was wider, and there was (at least) one fewer star in the sky.
 

HareBrain

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Ah, this was the Silmaril that was ripped from the belly of the great wolf Carcharoth, whose name translates as "Red Maw".

You didn't ask for a quote, so I haven't typed one out, but it's in The Silmarillion ch19.
 

farntfar

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Yes indeed.
He was described as Red Maw several pages before the one where he was ripped open to display Beren's hand and the Silmarill, but as you say, all in chapter 19 "Of Beren and Luthien"

So an incorrupt hand bell to you, HB, and the next question.
 

HareBrain

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Thank you!

Which rite is described as having been practised by royalty who could never have seen the Dunedain? (Quote please.)
 

Pyan

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Hmm. There's a rite of prayer by the Kings of Númenor on the summit of the Meneltarma, the mountain in the centre of the island:

There no tool or weapon had ever been borne; and there none might
speak any word, save the King only. Thrice only in each year the King spoke, offering prayer for the
coming year at the Erukyermë in the first days of spring, praise of Eru Ilúvatar at the Erulaitalë in
midsummer, and thanksgiving to him at the Eruhantalë at the end of autumn.

Unfinished Tales, Part Two, the Second Age: 1: A Description of the Island of Númenor

Carried out by royalty: and of course, as the Númenóreans were the antecendants of the Dúnedain, they could never have seen them.
 

HareBrain

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as the Númenóreans were the antecendants of the Dúnedain
The sources I checked say the Numenoreans were/are Dunedain. (Among others, Bilbo says his name for Aragorn, the Dunadan, means "man of the west, Numenorean"). Anyway, they are the same thing in the question, which might make it easier.
 

HareBrain

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A little clue: these royal personages, as well as never having seen the Dunedain, seem not to have had any knowledge of the Valar or Iluvatar either.
 

Boaz

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So this royal dynasty must be from a different time or location than the Dunedain. Given that the Dunedain sailed almost everywhere and that the stories of the Second and Third Ages revolve around areas populated by the Dunedain, I think this must be from a pre-Dunedain house/nation that either died out or removed themselves from mortal lands. Since, I don't have a copy of the Sil, I'll leave the best guess for Pyan or farny... I'll guess the House of Feanor. Specifically their oath of vengeance. From memory... Feanor swore an oath to recover the Silmarils and would not rest until they were recovered whether they were possessed by elf, man, demon, or vala. Thereupon his seven sons leapt up and swore the same oath. Many of the Noldor were shaken to hear such words uttered.
 

Boaz

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Okay, then I'll go for the lowest hanging fruit that I can see...

The House of Ingwe of the Vanyar. The Vanyar revered the Valar more than any other people or tribe of Arda. They would have remembered all the commemorative days of the Valar's rule of Arda.
 

HareBrain

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By the way, some guesses have assumed that I used the Dunedain as an almost random signifier of timescale or remoteness. In fact it's directly relevant to the passage in question.

What might help job a memory is to think what term (a fairly common English one) might be used for someone who has no knowledge of the Valar or Iluvatar.
 

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