The Revised Tolkien Trivia

pyan

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A nice bit of thinking outside the box.;)

It's Glóin recounting the Dwarves side of the events leading up to the Council of Elrond.

"Then about a year ago a messenger came to Dáin, but not from Moria - from Mordor: a horseman in the night, who called Dáin to his gate. The Lord Sauron the Great, so he said, wished for our friendship. Rings he would give for it, such as he gave of old. And he asked urgently concerning hobbits, of what kind they were, and where they dwelt. "For Sauron knows," said he, "that one of these was known to you on a time."
'At this we were greatly troubled, and we gave no answer. And then his fell voice was lowered, and he would have sweetened it if he could. "As a small token only of your friendship Sauron asks this," he said: "that you should find this thief," such was his word, "and get from him, willing or no, a little ring, the least of rings, that once he stole. It is but a trifle that Sauron fancies, and an earnest of your good will.'


FotR, Book II, Chapter 2: The Council of Elrond

53121


(Artist's impression - actual ring may be slightly different.)
 

HareBrain

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Bravo Py! And double bravo for finding that pic. I won't ask.

A Bell's for you (in place of the sherry) and next question please.
 

pyan

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Almien! Slàinte mhath!

Try this:

What would the Noble Maiden's grandfather have in common with a surprise discovery by his grandson-in-law, her husband?
 

farntfar

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There aren't really that many granddaughters that we know, most of the family trees being predominantly male, and then some details about granddaddy and granddaughter's hubby as well?

So we can pretty much forget the dwarves.

In the LOTR and Hobbits we're pretty much restricted to Sam's dad and Sam's children, but that just leaves a link between Thain Faramir and Hamfast. So pretty much stuck there.

Men, maybe Faramir and Theodred.

But Aragorn and Earendil?? Something about finding the white tree in the snows???
Or Aragorn and Celeborn??

Elves Celebrian==> Elrond and Finarfin, or Galadriel ==> Celeborn and Olwë .
Rian==> Huor and Bregolas?
Morwen==> Huor and Bregolas (again)

Idril==> Tuor and Fingolfin

I think that pretty much does it for married grandaughter/grandfather sets.

I'm still drawn to the Aragorn/ white tree thing, but can't get the other half.
 
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HareBrain

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But Aragorn and Earendil?? Something about finding the white tree in the snows???
I think you're right, not least because the LOTR index translates Arwen as "Lady" (presumably in the sense of "noble woman"). But i can't find a connection between Earendil and any of the white trees. The Silmarillion doesn't mention him seeing Celeborn or Galathilion when he visited Valinor.
 

The Big Peat

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I think you're right, not least because the LOTR index translates Arwen as "Lady" (presumably in the sense of "noble woman"). But i can't find a connection between Earendil and any of the white trees. The Silmarillion doesn't mention him seeing Celeborn or Galathilion when he visited Valinor.
The best I can come up with is they both possessed some element of the light of Valinor - I think Earendil had a silmaril, and the white tree came from trees of Valinor - but that feels weak. Couldn't find anything in the etymology.
 

HareBrain

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Ah, I think I might have it, unless this is a big coincidence:

The white tree Aragorn found was a seedling of Nimloth, the tree of Numenor.

Earendil married Elwing, who was daughter of Nimloth of Doriath.

(Both taken from the Silmarillion index.)
 

pyan

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farnrfar has half the genealogy - but there's a direct coincidence if you look at the lineages of those in his post. Look to Tol Eressëa.
Eärendil is a red herring...
 

Boaz

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Elwing's grandfather, Beren, took a Silmaril from Morgoth. It was taken by Carcharoth, given to Thingol, then to Luthien, then to Dior, then to Elwing. In the form of a bird, she bore it to Earendil, who was surprised to find it was her with the Silmaril. The power of the jewel allowed him to find Tol Eressea and the Undying Lands.
 

pyan

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I'm getting the impression that this is being over-thought. There's a direct nomenclature coincidence between the first part of the question statement and the surprise discovery...
 

Boaz

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Eowyn's grandfather was Thengel. Eowyn ended up marrying Faramir. Faramir discovered Frodo, Sam, Gollum, and the Ring.... and perhaps it could be said that Faramir was the first, in Gondor, to discover Aragorn's royalty while he was incognito... and Aragorn served Thengel under the name, Thorongil.
 

pyan

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Ok. farntfar has mentioned the grandfather part of the solution (in passing - not as an actual guess), but I'm looking for the xylological coincidence, which HB nearly got...
 

HareBrain

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Ah, I think I might have it, unless this is a big coincidence:

The white tree Aragorn found was a seedling of Nimloth, the tree of Numenor.

Earendil married Elwing, who was daughter of Nimloth of Doriath.
So this really was a complete coincidence? I'm flabbergasted.

xylological
Are we allowed to use Google for this bit? o_O
 

Boaz

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Gahhhh..... Arwen's other grandfather is Celeborn... Silver Tree... named for Telperion, the first White Tree of which the seedling that Aragorn (Arwen's husband and Celeborn's grandson in-law) found. I think. I'm looking in The Silmarillion now.....


Edit: Okay.... Telperion was the elder of the two trees made by Yavanna. She then made a lesser replica, Galathilion, for the Noldor in Tirion. From the fruit of Galathilion, the Teleri grew Celeborn in Tol Eressea. They gave a fruit to the Dunedain. This fruit became Nimloth the White Tree of Numenor of which Isildur stole a fruit and planted in Gondor. Aragorn found a sapling of the White Tree of Gondor.

So the answer is that the noble woman's grandfather, Celeborn, shares his name with that surprise found by Aragorn. The sapling's great grandfather was/is called Celeborn.
 
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pyan

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Yay! I honestly thought that this one would be a quick win. A bell made of truesilver to Boaz, and we await the next puzzle with bated breath...:)
 

Boaz

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Well, farny and HB did the work and handed it to me on a silver platter....

Which hero's father and best friend have similar nicknames? Please explain the nicknames.
 

Boaz

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This answer does not require extensive knowledge of elven, human, dwarven, nor hobbit genealogical charts. All information is in the text, you just need to make the connection.
 
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