The Revived Tolkien Trivia

[Pyan]

He's even got a rhyme and a "God start" comment from HB.

I don't think that Eru Ilúvatar is the answer...

 

[Pyan]

As for the seven stars, Gandalf doesn't explain, so if there was an eighth star, I can't think what it was.

The Seven Stars were taken by Elendil as his badge to represent the seven ships of the Faithful. There was never an eighth ship or star, AFAIK.

 

[Boaz]

What if the eighth ship was Amandil's ship?

 

[farntfar]

I didn't know that about the badge of Elendil, Py. Where is that told?

The original question was "Argue why one of the sevens should be an eight ".

All right. So Palantiri means "Those that watch from afar" (see the index at the back of the Silmarilion), also desctribed as far-sighted when speaking of Tar-Palantir.

Are you asking us to argue that Elendil was farsighted in leaving Numenor before it's demise, or that Isildur was farsighted in stealing the fruit of the White Tree, and so one or the other deserves the epithet Palantir, themselves?
(I always feel sorry for Anarion. He may have started the whole line of kings of Gondor, but otherwise he's portrayed very much as the wimp of the family, even if he did die with his dad at Barad-dur .
Pff! Second sons have it tough.
I can't find any reference which uses the words far-sighted specifically, but maybe on that basis the argument should be for 9.

 

[HareBrain]

Boaz, I'm not sure why you took my "good start, farn" to mean "that's totally wrong, you should try going off in a completely unrelated direction"

Are you asking us to argue that Elendil was farsighted in leaving Numenor before it's demise, or that Isildur was farsighted in stealing the fruit of the White Tree, and so one or the other deserves the epithet Palantir, themselves?

No, sorry, though that's a very inventive answer. It's somewhat more straightforward. You were very much along the right lines earlier, but there's something you're missing.

 

[Boaz]

Boaz, I'm not sure why you took my "good start, farn" to mean "that's totally wrong, you should try going off in a completely unrelated direction"

I'm the king of the one hundred and eighty degree turn.... and delusion.

But are you suggesting that Elendil should have recovered the body of Tar-Palantir, one of the Faithful, and taken it to Middle-earth?

Edit: Forget that... I just remembered that although Elendil landed in the north near the home of Gil-galad, Isildur landed much farther south and commemorated his landing by placing a plinth/monolith at the site. This enormous black rock is called the Stone of Erech, i.e. an eighth stone... and it was there that Aragorn called the dead to fulfill their oath to Isildur's heir.

@farntfar If I'm correct, then you should post a question. You figured correctly. You did all the real work. I was grasping at Valar.... plus, I'll be working a lot this week.

 

[HareBrain]

But are you suggesting that Elendil should have recovered the body of Tar-Palantir, one of the Faithful, and taken it to Middle-earth?

No. The "stone" is literal.

 

[Boaz]

@HareBrain I don't know if you saw my edited post.

Forget that... I just remembered that although Elendil landed in the north near the home of Gil-galad, Isildur landed much farther south and commemorated his landing by placing a plinth/monolith at the site. This enormous black rock is called the Stone of Erech, i.e. an eighth stone... and it was there that Aragorn called the dead to fulfill their oath to Isildur's heir.

@farntfar If I'm correct, then you should post a question. You figured correctly. You did all the real work. I was grasping at Valar.... plus, I'll be working a lot this week.

 

[HareBrain]

I don't know if you saw my edited post.

I didn't, so thanks for notifying me.

That is the right answer -- there were eight stones including the Stone of Erech: "those who remembered still the lore of Westernesse told that it had been brought out of the ruin of Numenor and set there by Isildur at his landing".

So, ding ding! Eight Bells to you.

Personally (no offense to farn), I think the crux of the problem was linking the Stone of Erech to the question, but I'm happy for farn to ask the next question if he wants to, since it was a joint effort.

 

[farntfar]

You did all the real work

The Stone of Erech is brilliant (*), Boaz.
"The mere thought hadn't even begun to speculate about the merest possibility of crossing my mind."
as Mr. Prosser says in another of my favourite books.

You are the mechanic. I am just the oily rag. so it should really be you, if you have the time.

(*) though actually jet black and the very antipathy of brilliant.

 

[Boaz]

Okay.... this one has a two part answer.

How was Elfwine the Fair related to the Prince of Ithilien?

 

[Pyan]

I didn't know that about the badge of Elendil, Py. Where is that told?

In the main Index:

Seven Stars, of Elendil and his captains...originally represented the single stars on the banners of each of the seven ships (of nine) that bore a palantír

LotR, RotK, Index, Star, as emblem...

 

[Pyan]

Okay.... this one has a two part answer.

How was Elfwine the Fair related to the Prince of Ithilien?

I don't see the two parts, but here goes:

Elfwine the Fair was the son of King Éomer and his wife, Lothíriel, daughter of Prince Imrahil of Dol Amroth .

Éomer's sister Éowyn married Faramir, made Prince of Ithilien by the King Elessar.

So Éowyn and Faramir are Elfwine's aunt and uncle.

So the answer (as far as I can see) is nephew.

 

[Boaz]

@pyan Correct. A generic family bell to you. I figured the connection of Elfwine being Eowyn's nephew was easy, but that people may overlook the fact that his mother was Faramir's first cousin.

 

[Pyan]

Ding!

If we heard contempt that was really an accolade, (outside the genre, they may be a hedgehog and a mouse, but alas, no rabbit), who is in whose mind?

 

[Boaz]

I don't really understand the clue... but I'm hoping it's because I have not figured it out yet and not because it's insensible.

That being the case... I will guess the answer is the Lake-men are in Smaug's mind. In The Hobbit, Chapter 12, Inside Information, Smaug's reaction to Bilbo's boasts about his exploits is...

"I thought so last night," he smiled to himself. "Lake-men, some nasty scheme of those miserable tub-trading Lake-men, or I'm a lizard. I haven't been down that way for an age and an age; but I will soon alter that!"
"Very well, O Barrel-rider!" he said aloud. "Maybe Barrel was your pony's name..."

 

[Pyan]

Not what I'm looking for, but I'll re-phrase the question, as being a little confusing...

If we heard an insult that was really an accolade, who was thinking about whom?
(Outside the genre, the description of the insulted ones were once ( from 1953 to 1965) the names of a hedgehog and a mouse but, alas, no rabbit.)

I need the names of the insulted, the insultees, and a reference to where the animals fit in. Google can be used to check.

 

[Boaz]

Okay... I guess I did understand the clues and the question. The only hedgehog I know is Sonic. I don't recall any from The Wind in the Willows... nor any from A.A. Milne's works. As for mice.... well, there are many...

But my next guess is that Sam was thinking of Gandalf...

In The Lord of the Rings, Book Three, Chapter Five, The Window on the West...

...Sam hesitated for a moment, then bowing very low: "Good night, Captain, my lord," he said. "You took the chance, sir."
"Did I so?" said Faramir.
"Yes sir, and showed your quality: the very highest."
Faramir smiled. "A pert servant, Master Samwise. But nay: the praise of the praiseworthy is above all rewards. Yet there was naught in this praise. I had no lure or desire to do other than I have done."
"Ah well, sir," said Sam, "you said my master had an elvish air; and that was good and true. But I can say this: you have an air too, sir, that reminds me of, of - well, Gandalf..."

Frodo and Sam would be the mouse and the hedgehog, the rabbit would be Smeagol whom Faramir had not yet caught.

 

[HareBrain]

Aaaaargh, I can half-recall a bit of dialogue in which someone says "that was an insult, if you like", and the other says "it was a compliment, and so, untrue".

Before I curl up weeping trying to remember, can you at least say if I'm thinking along the right lines, Py?

 

[Boaz]

@HareBrain You're thinking of Merry and Frodo in the very first chapter. While sorting out the mess of Bilbo's departure, Lobelia called Frodo a Brandybuck.