Wing Span of a Human?

[Sapheron]

Well, this has got to be one of the silliest questions I've ever asked...

How big are a human's wings? No, I'm not crazy. Ahem... If you were to take an average, male human, for example, what sort of wingspan would be reasonable if they wanted to fly? Not from a scientific, anatomical point of view, from a view of that'd-make-sense-if-I-saw-it view.

I'd guess about four metres. Anyone else?

 

[Rane Longfox]

Well, I'd say that when they're folded, they can't be longer than the person is tall. Or is that too scientific?

Say, a metre and a half each, so 3 in total...

 

[Pyan]

I don't think its the size of the wings so much as the power to drive them - you'd need a breast-bone that stuck out about a metre to attach the muscles to.

 

[Keri]

I've always thought that the size of wings they did for Led Zeppelin - Swansong was about correct. Look up artwork for the album and you'll get a good idea. Really depends on the type of wings though also.

 

[Rane Longfox]

Not from a scientific, anatomical point of view,

I don't think its the size of the wings so much as the power to drive them - you'd need a breast-bone that stuck out about a metre to attach the muscles to.

 

[Pyan]

Oops! sorry, Sapheron - didn't read it properly.

How about the Angel from the X-Men? Looks to be about right at 3 metres-ish.

 

[Sapheron]

Yeah thanks all. I want the common sense rather than the anatomy because they're part of a fantasy story. Realism takes second place behind making it work. As long as they aren't too silly (ten metres per wing or something like that), then it's fine. I think I'll be going on a theme of 'slightly less than you are tall', because that seems to be the general consensus.

 

[asher marquering]

id say 4 metres is bout right

"Really depends on the type of wings though also"

i agree with Keri

if you look at how the wing folds each wing would be [about the persons height+a half to quarter of the persons height] depending on where the wing attaches on the back (i hope that makes sense) so the wing span would be about 2X1.25 to 1.5Xheight (using my own height i got 5.1 metres)

hmmm to technical ???

 

[chrispenycate]

You can't attach the wings too high, or the body would dangle down from them; adequate for brachiating, but lousy for flying (why most griffins look wrong in flight; with a weight distribution like that, they'd dangle from their shoulders like a kitten being carried by its mother. To balance a body like that, you'd need a brain made of plutonium - and yes, I know some people who wouldn't reach critical mass even then, too)
With bat-style wings you could have an extra joint, so the "point" of the wing is well above the head in rest mode, but this is much harder to fold with feathered. Taking off from the ground would require a lot of space; it would probably be wiser to live in the upper stories, and launch off a fairly sheer drop. VTOL humans are definitely fantasy. And are you intending to sacrifice the upper limbs (as with birds and bats) to get your wings, or add them to the already existing structure (as with insects, dragons and griffins)? It makes a difference to the desigm parameters.

 

[Sapheron]

My intention is to make angels. Simple as that.I'm sure we all know what these are meant to look like. The reason I'm after what would 'seem right' rather than 'be right', is that magic fills in the scientific holes (or makes them so big you can ignore them, either way). On the other hand, I don't want to tramp through countless religious/gothic pictures and then make an educated guess instead, because I'm lazy. So you good folks get the question and I get the answer and we can all pat ourselves on the back at the end of it.

So far I'm thinking my original guess, about four metres, should do.

Chris, you managed to show an almost scary degree of knowledge once again! Insteresting stuff though. I should get me one of them plutonium brains...

 

[flynx]

What looks right (angel from x-men) is quite far from what would work.

This is technical and ignores magic obviously. Bone density is the main drawback with flying. (on the other hand this doesn't stop dragons from flying) Take a look at the albatross. It has a large body for a bird and the wing span is enormous. A swan's wingspan is gigantic compared to its body.

Most, if not all, large birds fly by gliding not by being able to flap fast.

A human wingspan would probably have to be in the region of three to four times its height, unless they had 'chicken bones' reducing their weight.

Look how large a parachute is. Even a para-sail and they only slow down descent.

Para-gliders are enormous and they have no propulsion whatsoever.

So, as big as a hang-glider:

For 'reality'. Otherwise:'Angel' from x-men for looking good.

 

[Sapheron]

I think I'd prefer the looking good version. Otherwise things like doors become a very, very big problem.

 

[that old guy]

Does anyone remember how Sharon Shinn solved this in her Samaria series? I only read the first two or three books, but I do remember she had some sort of elegant solution for this problem. It may have been that her 'Angels' were genetically modified to have lighter bones, something along those lines.

 

[HardScienceFan]

Does anyone remember how Sharon Shinn solved this in her Samaria series? I only read the first two or three books, but I do remember she had some sort of elegant solution for this problem. It may have been that her 'Angels' were genetically modified to have lighter bones, something along those lines.

Was the diet modified?Any idea what oxygen consumption flying takes?

 

[Daniel Hetberg]

If it's just about looking good, what about these:
http://www.airdav.com/belgariad/royo07_rid.jpg

(maybe you can find the picture in bigger if you google a bit, but I'm in a hurry)

(edit: I meant the female angel's wings in the background, a bigger picture would really help)

 

[chrispenycate]

Oh, angels. Angels don't have to be aerodynamicaly stable, they fly upright. I suspect that halo is a very fast-rotating propellor; can you imagine one stretching its arms in front of its head and going flat out, in those robes?
They're nearly as bad a flight design as your average dragon.
And you're not even allowed to go after them with a shotgun.

 

[asher marquering]

just a thought

wat would be the sensitivity of the area where the wing attaches to the body would it be ticklish on one side like arm pits(hmmm sounds weird)

 

[Pyan]

just a thought

wat would be the sensitivity of the area where the wing attaches to the body would it be ticklish on one side like arm pits(hmmm sounds weird)

Yes.... it would be very inconvenient if you just had to scratch at 3000 feet up!

 

[Steve Jordan]

Here's something to think about: The wings don't have to extend upward from the back, like (X-men) Angel's wings; they could extend downward, have a joint at about knee-level, then up to a joint at or above the head, and down again. (Like having your biceps down, your forearms up, and your hands and fingers down. No comments from the Python fans! Or, think Pterodactyl.)

Presto: Wings that can span about 5 meters each, or 10 meters total span, comparable to hang-glider size, and you can still get through the door.

 

[kythe]

This conversation reminds me of "Changing Fate" by Elisabeth Waters:
Amazon.com: Changing Fate: Books: Elisabeth (Lisa) Waters

It's one of my favorite fantasies, and I think the author is quite thorough in how she deals with the issue of flying humans. The story is about a woman born with shape-shifting abilities, and how she learns to use them. She finds that her weight is the same in any shape she takes since she cannot alter her mass. When she is a bird, her wingspan is much larger than any other birds in order to support her body since she does not have hollow bones.

It's a little hard to describe, but the book itself is much better. I would highly recommend it if you are into this kind of thing.