Timewalker
Orthodox Herbertarian
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2006
- Messages
- 59
Who wanted to write a book? 
(btw -- hello, Omphalos -- it's Hypatia from Arrakeen!
)
(btw -- hello, Omphalos -- it's Hypatia from Arrakeen!
Jerry Pournelle and Larry Niven worked as NASA advisors. They had a committee and lobby group with Robert A Heinlein, Poul Anderson, some space industry executives and scientists, the retired general Daniel Graham, and the astronaut Buzz Aldrin. They called it the "Citizens’ Advisory Council on National Space Policy".Also, NASA did have a fellow working for them, can't remember his name, who had a detailed plan of how we'd have an entire colony at a libration point by now, and a colony on the moon.
The fact that manned space exploration is dependent on political will was, I think, ignored or forgotten by those writers.Most of the stories set near our time period and written before the Challenger tragedy were very optimistic about how far we'd make it by now.
Gerard K O'Neill? He wrote the standard text on human colonies in space, The High Frontier.Also, NASA did have a fellow working for them, can't remember his name, who had a detailed plan of how we'd have an entire colony at a libration point by now, and a colony on the moon. But he wasn't taken too seriously (and I can sort of agree, for one thing the food problem isn't solved nor the affects of lower gravity on the astronauts) and eventually left and the public opinion of the program's importance was shattered after our first tragedy.
Bush has already said the US will return to the Moon by 2020, although whether that happens depends on his successor. But Nasa are already getting started on Project Constellation. The thing is, the standard justifications for manned space exploration don't bear scrutiny. Technological benefits? Well, Apollo gave us... velcro... and teflon. Scientific benefits? We know a lot more about the Moon than we did before. But we'velearnt as much, if not more, from robot explorers. And that's especially true of the rest of the Solar system. An astronaut on the spot is better than a robot? Well, yes - but way more expensive... We should do it because we can. Yes, the money could be better spent elsewhere - but everyone knows it won't be, it'd just be appropriated for something of even less benefit. Like an invasionThe real problem is that no one in any important position is stepping up and saying, "We have a calling to expand our nation to the only unsettled frontier left to us, space and beyond. We'll make this dream a reality and through diligence also make it bring another financial outlet to our economy. My engineers and scientist tell me that by X year we'll be at Y point, and later at Z year we'll have A, B, and C, completed. In this noble undertaking we'll continue our long history of excellence and devote the necessary resources."
No one is pumped about the space program. No one is setting big goals and getting nations excited about the prospect of meeting them. The best prospect in America right now is a private company that has almost made it to space. But our national space program just sucks.
I knew that. I don't know why I said it was an invention from the Apollo programme. Doh.Velcro was a Swiss invention from the Forties. (I was told the inventor got the idea from burrs that were caught on clothing.)
Hi Hypatia. I found that page archived at web archive. Here is the linkSorry, no.But I save all my PMs so I'll find it and do some searching.
[...]The thing is, the standard justifications for manned space exploration don't bear scrutiny. Technological benefits? Well, Apollo gave us... velcro... and teflon. [...]
Tang was developed before the space program but they had good PR guys.Correct about teflon/goretex/velcro.
In addition to those you list are a slew of plastics like lexan (used in the helmets), high tech foams and adhesives...and of course Tang.
They were folding space. The Guild reinvented fold space navigation after the computer navigators were destroyed.Another thing I don't get is how they move around so fast in The Butlerin Jihad. Fold space drive wasn't invented yet but they could traverse the galaxy in a matter of months.
Also, astronomy seems to be a lost science. The "known universe" in Dune is much smaller than the "known universe" today.
I think they just misunderstood the context in the novel.I think they are trying to say that Herbert didn't know how large the universe truly is when he originally wrote the novel because the scientists of the day didn't.
That has little to do with any authors ability to estimate the march of technology. The fall of the USSR and the rise of personal computers has more to do with why 2001 didn't come true than the pace of technology. Clarke couldn't predict how uninterested we would be in technological development.And Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep is set in 1992. And 2001: A Space Odyssey... well, it's going to be two decades after that date before the US sends another man to the Moon.
Lucas lifted stuff from all sorts of sources, but the desert and trading of spices featured in both SW and Dune are both taken from the real Middle East.Hi Hypatia. I found that page archived at web archive. Here is the link
Star Wars Origins - Frank Herbert's Dune