The fool - man or woman?

Is the fool male or female?

  • Male

    Votes: 47 58.0%
  • Female

    Votes: 14 17.3%
  • Can't decide

    Votes: 20 24.7%

  • Total voters
    81

Overread

Searching for a flower
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For me the end of the Tawny man series (I think) is where the fool explains that he would never force Fitz to love him (in the physical sense) because he is aware of Fitz's stance on single sex relationships.
Now this could go two ways; either this is the fools admission to being male, and thus the Amber line was a red herring (there are so many stories of women dressing up and acting as men, so maybe the fool does the total opposite).
Or it could be like Wyvern says, some sort of gender swapping evolution through time, or maybe there gender changes at their request - the fool started as a male, not expecting to fall in love with Fitz, when he did so as a male he (or it) realised that he could never change to be a women for Fitz as that would alienate Fitz from him - so he settled for the friendship with fitz. This allows the fool to change to be a women in the liveship series, and then accounts for a male shift back, when he returns to Fitz in Tawny man series (also - - come on people its called the Tawny MAN series - - - that could be a hint!)
for me I stick with option 1
 

loreth

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i always assumed that the fool was the the complete opposite of the pale woman in every way and thus male. i could be wrong tho but it seemed that way to me

i never got how the pale woman should be a false prophet cause there is only meant to be one white prophet for each era/age/whatever. the purpose of the white prophet is to break the cycles that time becomes caught up in or keep the balance something like that. but if all that is true then wouldnt only having one white prophet at a time becomes a cycle so maybe the pale woman was a true prophet whose purpose was to break the cycle of only one prophet.

sorry im rambling and heading off topic so ill shut up now
 

Koopa

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Or maybe there was just a convergence of conflicting paths.
The path the Fool and that black man choose, or the path that almost every other prophet seemed to have chosen (since they seemed to remain white). The fools path wins for now, however at the end of the novel it is clear that we dont know if that path will prove to be better for humankind or even the world for that matter.
 

loreth

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i got the impression that the fool turning darker was a sign that he was growing and changing and happened to all white prophets as evidenced by the black man who was also once a white prophet. the pale woman stayed the same because she refused to change.

it is the general assumption that white prophets remain white cause up til now none have ever returned to the tower place where they were raised and after completing their missions they tend to disappear. remember the fool thought his mission would end with his death he certainly lost the ability to predict the future after his mission was completed and the dark man also had lost the prediction thing and outlived his mission which implies that white prophets have a tendancy to die at the completion of their missions.
 

Koopa

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Huh, i really think i read that the Black Man, tells Fitz, that the Fool changes because he himself has changed the track of the world or so. Mind you its been a while since i read that part, on my rereads i usually skip stuff that i found uninteresting during my first read.
 

loreth

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your probably right. its been a while since i have properly read the book and i never reread it just flicked throu and looked up my favourite parts
 

Shingetsu

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I say male because of the contrast between the Pale Woman and the Fool. Not skin color, just body shape and all.
 

kauldron26

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yea man that pale woman was ridiculously hot in my head. lol. even fitz marveled at her beauty. the fool was a dude, and for the last time fitz didnt like him like that.
 

Shingetsu

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I agree, Fitz didn't like the Fool like that. Though the fool did. They just had a very strangely close friendship. And yeah, the Pale Woman was hot. He should have had sex with her to distract her and then in the middle twist her neck and break it. Though doesn't matter, the why she died was better anyways. No hands and crazy. She couldn't even get up after she ran into Fitz and fell. I almost feel sorry for her. Or maybe it's pity. It annoyed me how close they were though. When the Fool said he was leaving, I thought good, Fitz needs to get back with Molly and take care of that anyways. Probably good he dissapeared for a month actually, well the good may balance the bad. Since everything went hectic with Nettle knowing the truth and Molly seeing him and he couldn't explain anything at the time. But atleast then he didn't have a chance to go back to the Fool and try and go with. I would have had to come out of a corner and stab Fitz then. Their relationship was a tad bit fruity for me.
 

Shingetsu

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If the Pale Woman was female, why shouldn't the Fool be male or female?(and he certainly isn't shapely or hot like the pale woman)
 

Ice fyre

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Black will do till they invent a darker colour. U
Just a note as I'm in the middle of "the Golden Fool" I have noticed some thing. The Fool has not left its chambers since its old friend who percives it to be female has come to Buck.

The answer perhaps (from admitedly limited knowledge so far) is that the Fool is neither male nor female.

Lets look at this from an Out islander point of view, who has power in an Outisland comunity? Female, so how does one of the fool's people (a Catalyast) appear? Usually they appear as whatever the expectation for power is, for buck male, Outisland female. :D
 

Shingetsu

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I just think he pretended to be a female in the Liveship Traders to hide himself or be weird or whatever. I havn't read that trilogy yet though. I needed a break from Hobb.
 

Clownwalkin

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I think it has been explained more than enough just in the Farseer and Tawny Man books. He is most definately "male" or the male counterpart of his race. He is definitely not human or entirely human so it goes without being said that he would be different from a human male. He also explained that being a woman made his time in bingtown and those other areas easier and less noticable. Finally, the pale woman was opposite of the Fool and she was obviously a woman thus the Fool was a man.

I have not read the Liveship Traders but i dont think that even read about Amber could change my opinion of this. To me it just seems so obvious.


The homophobia in this forum is disgusting. Just wanted to put that out there. Beloved wanted Fitz's heart not his D---
 
Last edited:

j d worthington

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Clownwalkin -- you might want to take a look at the Forum Rules. We don't allow personal attacks here, nor flamewars -- and your final line there seems very calculatedly geared to both....
 

Tickle

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I think that The Fool is a man. A very sensitive man, who knows how he truly feels about Fitz and isn't ashamed to let Fitz know. He loves him without reservation and would do anything for that love. Fitz finally realized it, in Fool's Fate and realized it in himself. By the end of Fool's Fate, nooone could have stopped Fitz from looking for The Fool's body (I bet not even Molly) or hoping that he would find Fool alive. If Fool wouldn't have left with The Black Man, Fitz would have expected him to be a big part of his life (just as close as Molly, but no sex). Anyone else think so?
 

0Sanne0

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I chose Can't decide

I thought of the Fool as male and of Amber as female...
And since the Fool and Amber are the same I can't make up my mind.
 

Pyan

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Neither...which isn't a poll option, I'm afraid.:rolleyes:

I incline to the theory that Whites change their orientation as they go through life, but always stay vaguely androgenous. Certainly there are clues scattered through the three trilogies, but I'm under the impression that they balance out without any definite proof either way.

Anyway, gtst's a wonderful character, and it really doesn't matter that much, does it?
 

Overread

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Well I still stand by the "Tawny MAN Trilogies" as proving that the fool is male. Along with the lack of evidence of the Pale Woman ever changing or hiding gender at any point.

However Pyan you raise an interesting idea - could it be that the Fool's race is like frogs(or was it toads) and can - at will or in response to certain outside factors - change genders? Might be that all the exposure to Fitz in the first trilogy caused the Fool to start changing (around the time for the journey to the place of resting for the dragons). But he know that Fitz would be uncomfortable with that as up till then the fool was a male - so he went away to Bingtown.
Not sure what prompted the change back to male (which he clearly is in the third trilogy) but it could be that male is his "dominant" gender and without a desirable male in Bingtown the Fool reverted back to he "default" gender.
The third trilogy sees him stay as a male - which hints that the process is probably controllable by the individual, but requires more maturity in them to be able to choose whether to change or not (mind over instinctive reactions).

This would balance out for the Pale Woman as she has her "lover" in the male leader in the Isles - even though her treatment and relationship to him is clearly different, there is a bond between Prophets and their catalysts - so she never had the driving force to change gender

actuall after all that writing and thinking - well I can't fully stand by my theory!
 

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