Regnants :duelling scene excerpt, 1500 words

[emburmak]

Below is part of a dueling scene from my book Regnants. Critiques in both structure and grammatical areas are welcome. Thanks.



“In our corner, the new Provincial Legate, the Magister, Baron bon Trepp.” Cheers and hoots exploded from the crowd.

“And in the barbarians corner from the beyond the outer rim of the Median Sea, past the known lands comes a champion. The Dark warrior,” the announcer said. He was a large man with a baritone voice that resonated around the arena.

Emburmak strode forward feeling a bit uncomfortable beneath his mask, as boos and hisses greeted him. The noise grew louder as he came mounted the duelling platform and saw his opponent was clad like him, but with a serene mask and a bigger cloak.

“In view of the gravity of the battle with civilisation on the brink, this duel will be under extended rules. This is not a free-style bout, but points one. The first to five points is the winner. The Magister has chosen the backsword, while the barbarian has chosen the falchion,” the announcer said.

Even as he moved to the centre, Emburmak slowly drew his duelling sword, a blunt falchion. What he was not going do was get into a drawing contest with a Paladin. That was an area were a Paladin like his opponent would be proficient in, horned by constant practice. Emburmak advanced, stopping just outside striking distance and waited.

His opponent turned away, bowing to the crowds taking in the ovation and then in a blink spun and somersaulted backwards. The Magister executed the draw, exquisite and blindingly fast, and advanced in a series of pirouettes. Emburmak gambled on a counter and acted on it.

It was an article of faith among soldiers that ‘he who struck first’ held the advantage or initiative. That was true when aided by an element of surprise. The brutal truth was however different. In a contest of near equals, devoid of a surprising move, he who struck first usually ended up in a slight disadvantage to a telling riposte. This was especially true when the opening strike was known or could be predicted beforehand.

Even as the whirling cloak came his way, Emburmak was already anticipating, rolling forwards on the floor, head first, legs tucked in. On his second roll, he used the speed to gain purchase with his feet, and sprung up, causing him to vault backwards. Even in the air, he whirled about, to land, an instinctive blow on his opponent. The howling crowd went distinctively quiet. He landed on his feet, his opponent obviously hurt.

Emburmak smiled, it was one of the counter-moves taught to him by Crylock. Obviously, if his opponent had been more cautious, such an opening would not have occurred. Emburmak had gambled on the opening move, putting him in a good position to land first. He could not count on such fortune continuing, unless he could provoke his opponent.

“One point to the Dark warrior. A slash to the shoulder that would have ended the battle in a blood contest.” the ref announced, to a stunned silence.

The Magister eyed him as he got to his feet. Overconfidence was the pitfall of many a skilled fighter. Emburmak could and almost read his mind and feel the accompanying anger: How dare this simpleton strike him!

True to type, the Magister would now be out to humiliate him, and that would bring other chances. Not to win, but at least make the contest respectable. The Magister closed in slowly, sword in the classic overhead ‘roof’ with his shuffling legs, in the T stance.

He was more cautious now, obviously according Emburmak a bit of respect than hitherto. Emburmak matched his stance and they started to circle each other just on the cusp of the striking distance. He zoned out the crowd, all concentration on his crouching opponent. The attack when it came was not sudden neither was the counter unexpected. Blow met blow, edge versus edge, as the opponents danced in a rhythm of flashing swords.

In haste and on the edge of one riposte, the Magister overreached slightly, just the opportunity Emburmak was looking for. In a flash, the blunt tip of his sword contacted with his opponent’s midriff.

“Two points to the Dark warrior.” The referee shouted.
The Magister turned his back on Emburmak, bowing and walking on the edge of the platform. Holding the sword in one hand, he was waving with the other hand sideways. The message was clear to all; the Magister was creating the impression that until now he had been playing with the opponent. The crowd went wild with joy.

“It would seem that our august Magister was playing…” Emburmak tuned out the rest as he attacked the turning form. The Magister jumped to the left, swiftly evading the attack, and then swung back, his blade a darting cloud of flashing steel. It was all Emburmak could do to defend the volley of cuts, thrusts and slashes. He danced back, bobbing and weaving, his sword a whirling shield of steel. A slight error in retraction by the Magister, caused Emburmak to land another score, this time on an outstretched leg. Emburmak smiled, he was not that bad after all. In a real duel, this contest would have long been over.

“Another hit by the barbarian. It would seem the arrogance was misplaced. Three points!” The referee shouted.

The Magister attacked with a vengeance, a veritable cyclone of darting and slashing efficiency, his sword flashing left, right, everywhere. Emburmak was forced on the defensive by the sheer skill and speed of his opponent. Yet the contest was not one-sided.
The blades seemed animated, as if moving by themselves, both wielders, mere extensions. Emburmak fought on, still on the defensive, as a part of his mind analysed the fight. The Baron’s wealth of experience was slowly turning the contest as time and again Emburmak could only counter by great instinctive saves. The most difficult thing was to discern between real threats and imaginary ones.

A major part of the problem; the falchion was a patently inferior weapon against the backsword. Emburmak wondered how long this would last. He dodged a strike, bobbed out of a slash and then almost in slow motion saw the approaching lunge. There was nothing to do and it struck him in the chest.

“One strike for the Magister, a truly decapitating strike.”

The Magister continued the attack without any momentary pause. Emburmak slipped away, and then reversed the other way to dodge what may or may not have been a feint. He countered again then launched one of his rare strikes. Or what should have been a strike for in his desperation he leaned too far.

His opponent slipped smoothly away from contacting swords, forcing Emburmak hopelessly forward and past. He tried manly to turn but felt the rude shock of a kick in the backside. He allowed the momentum to carry him, with his legs collapsing.

“Another point for the Magister! And what a point! A kick up the rear!” The crowd howled its approval.

Emburmak picked himself up slowly, breathing heavily. This was only going to end one way. His opponent had as much talent, maybe less, but allied to years of practice and training was clearly in a different league. The different weapons did not help. Even if he had the backsword, Emburmak knew, his lack of familiarity would make the outcome the same. Guts and will, could only go so far.

He fell back as the Magister unleashed another wave of blindingly fast attacks, a bewildering mixture of feints and real blows. Emburmak defended to the best of his ability, but he had no answer to a swinging foot that came out of nowhere. He landed with a thud. The sound from the onlookers was now deafening.

“The score is three all folks! What had appeared as if the barbarian was winning has now been proven wrong!”
Emburmak picked himself up and a surge of anger went up in him. It was not enough for this exponent to win, but to humiliate him.

Him!

Emburmak charged filled with a new energy and determination. He did not mind being beaten, but humiliated as well?

No!

He attacked in series of moves that flowed effortlessly from his mind, for the first time forcing the Magister back on the defensive. Attacks and moves, he had forgotten flowed from his mind through his body, pinning the Magister back, back.

Pushed relentlessly back, the Magister stumbled. Too late before he could stop himself, Emburmak walked straight into the trap. The first crunching blow to the midriff stunned him. The second he felt rather than saw, reacting even before he thought about it.

Even as his legs obeyed the orders to fail, the blow struck him on the back of his helmet. His slight movement had saved him from the original purpose; a strike at the junction of his neck and the neck protector of his helmet. Even as he fell into unconsciousness, one thought dominated his mind; the Magister had tried to killed him!

 

[chrispenycate]

Below is part of a dueling scene from my book Regnants. Critiques in both structure and grammatical areas are welcome. Thanks.



“In our corner, the new Provincial Legate, the Magister, Baron bon Trepp.” Cheers and hoots exploded from the crowd.

“And in the barbarians

barbarian's; and a comma after "corner"

corner from the beyond the outer rim of the Median Sea, past the known lands

comma

comes a champion. The Dark warrior,” the announcer said. He was a large man with a baritone voice that resonated around the arena.

Emburmak strode forward feeling a bit uncomfortable beneath his mask, as boos and hisses greeted him. The noise grew louder as he came

no "came"

mounted the duelling platform and saw his opponent was clad like him, but with a serene mask and a bigger cloak.

“In view of the gravity of the battle with civilisation on the brink,

with civilisation on the brink of what? Disaster? And I think there should be a comma after "battle", though as I'm not sure what the sentence is trying to say…

this duel will be under extended rules. This is not a free-style bout, but

a points one; though one would not generally say "a points bout"

points one. The first to five points is the winner. The Magister has chosen the backsword, while the barbarian has chosen the falchion,” the announcer said.

I think it is sufficiently clear that this is a continuation of the introduction that you could leave off the "the announcer said"

Even as he moved to the centre, Emburmak slowly drew his duelling sword, a blunt falchion. What he was not going do was get into a drawing contest with a Paladin. That was an area were

where

a Paladin like his opponent would be proficient in,

no "in" (alternatively no "where") and "honed"

horned by constant practice. Emburmak advanced, stopping just outside striking distance

comma

and waited.

His opponent turned away, bowing to the crowds

comma

taking in the ovation and then

comma

in a blink

comma

spun and somersaulted backwards. The Magister executed the draw, exquisite and blindingly fast, and advanced in a series of pirouettes. Emburmak gambled on a counter and acted on it.

if he "gambled" it is already obvious that he acted.

It was an article of faith among soldiers that ‘he who struck first’ held the advantage or initiative. That was true when aided by an element of surprise. The brutal truth was however different. In a contest of near equals, devoid of a surprising move, he who struck first usually ended up in

at a slight

a slight disadvantage to a telling riposte. This was especially true when the opening strike was known or could be predicted beforehand.

Even as the whirling cloak came his way, Emburmak was already anticipating, rolling forwards on the floor, head first, legs tucked in. On his second roll, he used the speed to gain purchase with his feet, and sprung up, causing him to vault backwards. Even in the air, he whirled about, to land,

no comma

an instinctive blow on his opponent. The howling crowd went distinctively

not "distinctively" Maybe "distinctly"

quiet. He landed on his feet, his opponent obviously hurt.

Emburmak smiled, it was one of the counter-moves taught to him by Crylock. Obviously, if his opponent had been more cautious, such an opening would not

"never", rather than "not"? Not that yours is wrong

have occurred. Emburmak had gambled on the opening move, putting him in a good position to land first.

Is that "land the first blow, or be first on the ground?

He could not count on such fortune continuing, unless he could provoke his opponent.

“One point to the Dark warrior. A slash to the shoulder that would have ended the battle in a blood contest.” the ref

Again, not wrong, but shortening "referee" to "ref" in a contest as formal as this didn't feel right

announced, to a stunned silence.

The Magister eyed him as he got to his feet. Overconfidence was the pitfall of many a skilled fighter. Emburmak could and

no "and"

almost read his mind and feel the accompanying anger: How dare this simpleton strike him!

Question mark? Even if the question is rhetorical?

True to type, the Magister would now be out to humiliate him, and that would bring other chances. Not to win, but at least make the contest respectable. The Magister closed in slowly, sword in the classic overhead ‘roof’ with his shuffling legs, in the T stance.

He was more cautious now, obviously according Emburmak a bit of

more

respect than hitherto. Emburmak matched his stance and they started to circle each other just on the cusp

"cusp" to me is the point where a curve changes direction, a decision point; I don't see how it applies to striking distances

of the striking distance. He zoned

"zoned"? Possibly "tuned"

out the crowd, all concentration on his crouching opponent. The attack when it came was not sudden

comma

neither was the counter unexpected. Blow met blow, edge versus edge, as the opponents danced in a rhythm of flashing swords.

In haste and on the edge of one riposte, the Magister overreached slightly, just the opportunity Emburmak was looking for. In a flash, the blunt tip of his sword contacted with his opponent’s midriff.

“Two points to the Dark warrior.” The referee shouted.
The Magister turned his back on Emburmak, bowing and walking on the edge of the platform. Holding the sword in one hand, he was waving with

no "with"

the other hand sideways. The message was clear to all; the Magister was creating the impression that until now he had been playing with the opponent. The crowd went wild with joy.

“It would seem that our august Magister was playing…” Emburmak tuned out the rest as he attacked the turning form. The Magister jumped to the left, swiftly evading the attack, and then swung back, his blade a darting cloud of flashing steel. It was all Emburmak could do to defend the volley of cuts, thrusts and slashes. He danced back, bobbing and weaving, his sword a whirling shield of steel. A slight error in retraction by the Magister, caused Emburmak to land another score, this time on an outstretched leg. Emburmak smiled, he was not that bad after all. In a real duel, this contest would have long been over.

“Another hit by the barbarian. It would seem the arrogance was misplaced. Three points!” The referee shouted.

The Magister attacked with a vengeance,

aveangeance

a veritable cyclone of darting and slashing efficiency, his sword flashing left, right, everywhere. Emburmak was forced on the defensive by the sheer skill and speed of his opponent. Yet the contest was not one-sided.

The blades seemed animated,

possibly "alive" rather than "animated" In a very real sense they were animated, by their wielders

as if moving by themselves, both wielders,

no comma

mere extensions. Emburmak fought on, still on the defensive, as a part of his mind analysed the fight. The Baron’s wealth of experience was slowly turning the contest as time and again Emburmak could only counter by great

"great" doesn't feel quite right here.

instinctive saves. The most difficult thing was to discern between real threats and imaginary ones.

A major part of the problem; the falchion was a patently inferior weapon against the backsword. Emburmak wondered how long this would last. He dodged a strike, bobbed out of a slash and then almost in slow motion saw the approaching lunge. There was nothing to do and it struck him in the chest.

“One strike for the Magister, a truly decapitating strike.”

decapitating from the chest? He keeps his head low.

The Magister continued the attack without any momentary

Either "without any pause" or "without even momentary pause"

pause. Emburmak slipped away, and then reversed the other way

no need for "the other way"

to dodge what may or may not have been a feint. He countered again then launched one of his rare strikes. Or what should have been a strike

comma

for in his desperation he leaned too far.

His opponent slipped smoothly away from contacting swords, forcing Emburmak hopelessly forward and past. He tried manly

I think that's "vainly"

to turn but felt the rude shock of a kick in the backside. He allowed the momentum to carry him, with his legs collapsing.

“Another point for the Magister! And what a point! A kick up the rear!” The crowd howled its approval.

Emburmak picked himself up slowly, breathing heavily. This was only going to end one way. His opponent had as much

there's a logical problem here. Perhaps "his opponent had no more talent, maybe less, but…" or "his oponent had as much talent, maybe more, and…"

talent, maybe less, but allied to years of practice and training

commaAnd "allied to" for the training would maybe work better as "combined with"(though I wouldn't have bothered if I hadn't already been correcting)

was clearly in a different league. The different weapons did not help. Even if he had the backsword, Emburmak knew, his lack of familiarity would make the outcome the same. Guts and will,

no comma

could only go so far.

He fell back as the Magister unleashed another wave of blindingly fast attacks, a bewildering mixture of feints and real blows. Emburmak defended to the best of his ability, but he had no answer to a swinging foot that came out of nowhere. He landed with a thud. The sound from the onlookers was now deafening.

“The score is three all folks! What had appeared as if the barbarian was winning has now been proven wrong!”
Emburmak picked himself up and a surge of anger went

rose up in him, or went through him

up in him. It was not enough for this exponent to win, but to humiliate him.

Him!

Emburmak charged

comma

filled with a new energy and determination. He did not mind being beaten, but humiliated as well?

No!

He attacked in

a series

series of moves that flowed effortlessly from his mind, for the first time forcing the Magister back on the defensive. Attacks and moves, he had forgotten flowed from his mind through his body, pinning the Magister back, back.

could you find another word for one of those "flowed"s?

Pushed relentlessly back, the Magister stumbled. Too late

Well, there would be a comma there; but is it really "too late"? Or would the sentence start just as well with "before"?

before he could stop himself, Emburmak walked straight into the trap. The first crunching blow to the midriff stunned him. The second he felt rather than saw, reacting even before he thought about it.

Even as his legs obeyed the orders to fail, the blow struck him on the back of his helmet. His slight movement had saved him from the original purpose; a strike at the junction of his neck and the neck protector of his helmet. Even as he fell into unconsciousness, one thought dominated his mind; the Magister had tried to killed

kill

him!

I will cheerfully admit that I'm not a specialist in this type of fighting, and can make no comment about the technicalities, but it seems that the combination of acrobatics and fencing would have been much easier if they had disgarded their cloaks at the beginning. Would not even a short cloak get hopelessly tangled in very short order?

 

[emburmak]

Thanks very much chrispenycate, your help is invaluable! How I wish you were a computer program and I could buy you.

As to the cloak, having had quite a lot of experience, both thoeretical and practical, I can assure you that cloaks have been used in dueling, especially by the 'italian school' of rapier fencing, where it was used to sweep away thrusts. I simply adapted this to my world where dueling is supreme. It is an addition like a shield or flowing clothes etc ( a fighter who knows how fight only with sword will be at a disadvantage when faced with one who has a sword and shield and knows how to utilise this edge)which should give an advantage to one not conversant with its technique.

In the talent issue, I am trying to show Emburmak is more talented but the Magister with years of constant practice and experience is more skilled. Or better yet using the wealth of his experience to win. In this case, Talent is what you are born with, while skill is what you acquire or learn. Nevertheless I will rework it to get my idea across clearer.

The 'our' and 'barbarians' is like 'home and away'. The Magister is representing civilisation while Emburmak is representing the 'barbarians'.

The 'on the brink' would have been understood if you read the story from the beginning. In brief, rumblings of war is on the horizon.

The 'points' issue, I took from jousts that occured during the middle ages. These had complicated scoring systems to decide the winner. I adapted this to five hits in the scene because in my world, five or a 'hand' is almost like the unit number or number base (in place of ten) for the masses. The free-stlye bout is one which these rules do not appy, in which the winner is the last one standing. Again this is based on jousts from the middle ages.


I used 'cusp' thinking it meant the same as edge. Thanks to you and consulting a dictionary, I have found that is an error.


In the 'zone' comment. I had initially used 'tuned', but not wanting to face the 'this word is too recent for the story brigade', I decided on 'zone'. I will change it to your suggestion as it goes better.

'Decapitation' can occur on the torso, cutting somebody in two for example. With the backsword akin to a katana, if it had been real duel Emburmak should have done that on the first strike.

A hearty thanks to all your other suggestions, and I will put them to good use.

 

[chrispenycate]

So, you're saying it should be the barbarians' corner, rather than the barbarian's? Fine, but there's still the apostrophe for the possessive.

As regards the talent/skill dichotomy, that is what I had suspected, which means my first suggestion (no more talent) (or an equivalent in your words, evidently) is more accurate.

Capitatus= latin for head, thus decapitated = head cut off. not torso cut in half.

Yes, I see what you mean about "tuned" - it's only since radio that the word has expanded to incude rejection of unwanted information. But what was the old term for that focussing of attention to the exclusion of all else, the tunnel vision effect (though it involves all the senses, not just sight) which occurs during intense concentration on one subject (I'm not often short of a word, but here I'm hoping someone will come up with a suggestion)

The "points" idea came through perfectly well; I was merely nit-picking about precise word usage (you had understood that I'm a linguistic pedant, I trust? there will be few who give you this hard a time)

 

[emburmak]

As regards the talent/skill dichotomy, that is what I had suspected, which means my first suggestion (no more talent) (or an equivalent in your words, evidently) is more accurate.

Capitatus= latin for head, thus decapitated= head cut off. not torso cut in half.

Yes, I see what you mean about "tuned" - it's only since radio that the word has expanded to incude rejection of unwanted information. But what was the old term for that focussing of attention to the exclusion of all else, the tunnel vision effect (though it involves all the senses, not just sight) which occurs during intense concentration on one subject (I'm not often short of a word, but here I'm hoping someone will come up with a suggestion)

The "points" idea came through perfectly well; I was merely nit-picking about precise word usage (you had understood that I'm a linguistic pedant, I trust? there will be few who give you this hard a time)

Here's my revised sentence for the talents "His opponent had almost as much talent, but with skill allied to years of practice and training was clearly in a different league."


You are right about the decapitated but remember the announcer is doing a running commmentary and making it simple but exagerated, like all sports commentators. So while it is not factually correct, I feel it works in the scene.

I have tried thinking up alternativess to tune and zone out but failed. E.g ; Blanked, unhearing, deaf, filter out, introspect, disconnect, none of them work as zone and tune.

 

[Phil Brown]

I think the dramatic focus of this contest, the stakes that keep the reader on the edge of her seat, is "the gravity of the battle with civilisation on the brink". That's why we care who wins. But these stakes are never really explained, perhaps because this is just an extract. More important, they are never mentioned again as far as I can see. If we are going to be worried about civilisation being on the brink then it needs to be brought to the foreground. As it is, this dramatic dimension is simply forgotten about, being replaced by a simple duel.

 

[emburmak]

I think the dramatic focus of this contest, the stakes that keep the reader on the edge of her seat, is "the gravity of the battle with civilisation on the brink". That's why we care who wins. But these stakes are never really explained, perhaps because this is just an extract. More important, they are never mentioned again as far as I can see. If we are going to be worried about civilisation being on the brink then it needs to be brought to the foreground. As it is, this dramatic dimension is simply forgotten about, being replaced by a simple duel.

Once again thanks for your critique. The excerpt is from a scene that is over 3,500 words long and is the climax of an event that takes up a sizble portion of the major sub-plot in the book. The event is put up to commemorate the passing of a mayor. This munus or wake celebration, is put up by a candidate to gain the favour of the city inhabitants. The climax of the event, being a duel between a Magister (the premier class of duelists in the Empire) versus a representation of a barbarian, akin to a 'we' versus 'them' match.

The society I am introducing is one in which there has been no war for over a thousand years and as such the populace exhibit their urges through sanctioned duels and tourneys, akin to watching a modern tennis or boxing event. However due to events of squabling Regnants and immortals this long peace is about to change. As the 'philosophy' excerpt was meant to show, mortals will be pawns in this coming conflagration. The 'storm clouds' so to speak are gathering. The scene excerpt is taken from page 200 of book currently over 400 pages. A reader who reads up to the event will get a feel of the escalating situation.

 

[Keri]

“In our corner, the new Provincial Legate, the Magister, Baron bon Trepp.” Cheers and hoots exploded from the crowd.

American boxing has popularized the "in this corner" phrase, so you will have a great many readers automatically assuming this is a pugalistic battle just from your wording, thus it is somewhat of a cliche which I would avoid. How about an introduction that fits a more medieval flavor context.

“And in the barbarians corner from the beyond the outer rim of the Median Sea, past the known lands comes a champion. The Dark warrior,” the announcer said. He was a large man with a baritone voice that resonated around the arena.

Also it is repetitive repeating yourself with in the barbarian's corner. (apostrophe needed also) I'd avoid the use of the word announcer as well, if you are going to describe his voice you might as well name him or it's a little unnecessary information.

Let me give you an example of a rewrite:

A deep baritone voice cried out resonating around the arena, "Ladies and Gents may I present to you our very own, Magister, the new provincial Legate, the shining blade of the west, Baron von Trepp! Cheers and Hoots exploded from the crowd as he strode toward the marked off area.

"His opponent, the Dark warrior, a champion from the furthest reaches of the Median sea." (Quick rewrite but it gives it a more medieval flow and escapes the cliches) If you've ever seen Knights Tale then you could go with an introduction like that as well which would be very entertaining and a great intro to the piece.

Emburmak strode forward feeling a bit uncomfortable beneath his mask, as boos and hisses greeted him. The noise grew louder as he came mounted the duelling platform and saw his opponent was clad like him, but with a serene mask and a bigger cloak.

Get rid of "a bit" You're obviously using alternative or british spellings with duelling and civilisation instead of dueling and civilization, which adds a nice touch I think. Omit "came" as well. Try to reword the second mask as to not be repetitive. Perhaps omit the first usage of the word and the second time you use it add "more serene mask and a bigger cloak" thus you get the impression he has both but is outclassed in both areas.

“In view of the gravity of the battle with civilisation on the brink, this duel will be under extended rules. This is not a free-style bout, but points one. The first to five points is the winner. The Magister has chosen the backsword, while the barbarian has chosen the falchion,” the announcer said.

Ok in all traditional senses of Duels, they are always with the same weapon, which usually the one challenged got to pick. Backsword's and falchions are from different eras as well, though this could be considered unimportant the choice of the usage of backsword threw me, while it may be used for dueling today it was originally a secondary weapon for cavalry.

Even as he moved to the centre, Emburmak slowly drew his duelling sword, a blunt falchion. What he was not going do was get into a drawing contest with a Paladin. That was an area were where a Paladin like his opponent would be proficient in, horned(honed?) by constant practice. Emburmak advanced, stopping just outside striking distance and waited.

Get rid of "drew his duelling sword" and simply state he drew his weapon you've already educated us to what type of weapon and that they are in a duel it seems repetitive information the way it is presented. I think labeling the Baron as a Paladin is too contrived. I've never heard of Paladins being known for their quick drawing ability. I'd rephrase this whole part of why he believes the Baron is fast. Did he hear it from rumor and usually in duels with swords you don't draw your weapon after the bout begins, so thus it seems even more contrived.

His opponent turned away, bowing to the crowds taking in the ovation and then in a blink spun and somersaulted backwards. The Magister executed the draw, exquisite and blindingly fast, and advanced in a series of pirouettes. Emburmak gambled on a counter and acted on it.

I have a real issue with this whole paragraph. He knows he's up against a champion and any real swordmaster would take him out while he's busy twirling around and trying to show off. End of battle. I now just want to dress Magister in a little tutu and not take him seriously, and write him off as the biggest buffoon who ever was allowed to handle a weapon. Sorry first impressions count big and you've just made him in my mind a ballerina twirling pansy. Though I love the idea of him showing off as he enters the arena and playing to the crowd I think you are doing so in a manner that doesnt serve your character well.

It was an article of faith among soldiers that ‘he who struck first’ held the advantage or initiative. That was true when aided by an element of surprise. The brutal truth was however different. In a contest of near equals, devoid of a surprising move, he who struck first usually ended up in a slight disadvantage to a telling riposte. This was especially true when the opening strike was known or could be predicted beforehand.

Two quirks I have here. Even though Baron knows Emburmak is a champion he probably still dismisses him as a crude barbarian, that is what the first part of your piece seemed to insinuate how the general populace saw him.

Two: Are you really going to use the word soldiers here, and throw everyone in confusion about are duellists all soldiers in a populace that has no war, and consider duelling a social bout? Would the word even be used in your society.

Even as the whirling cloak came his way, Emburmak was already anticipating, rolling forwards on the floor, head first, legs tucked in. On his second roll, he used the speed to gain purchase with his feet, and sprung up, causing him to vault backwards. Even in the air, he whirled about, to land, an instinctive blow on his opponent. The howling crowd went distinctively quiet. He landed on his feet, his opponent obviously hurt.

Land of the great flashy duels. I'd rather you exhibited some standard swordplay here first then have this essentially first point over with Ballerina spins and gymnastics. Remember what happened the first time the Karate Kid got flashy, at least it was believable when he tried his flashy move why he did it because we'd had a little preliminary on it and they went through some standard martial arts first. Never have a showy move right at the front. I just lost interest the whole duel, it doesnt build up any tension whatsoever.

Emburmak smiled, it was one of the counter-moves taught to him by Crylock. Obviously, if his opponent had been more cautious, such an opening would not have occurred. Emburmak had gambled on the opening move, putting him in a good position to land first. He could not count on such fortune continuing, unless he could provoke his opponent.

I'd rather his opponent underestimate him. I don't think a seasoned duelist would make that sort of mistake unless he dismissed his opponent as barbaric unworthy.

“One point to the Dark warrior. A slash to the shoulder that would have ended the battle in a blood contest.” the ref announced, to a stunned silence.

Again modern word usage "ref"

The Magister eyed him as he got to his feet. Overconfidence was the pitfall of many a skilled fighter. Emburmak could and almost read his mind and feel the accompanying anger: How dare this simpleton strike him!

Reword, reusage of overconfidence again. Emburmak places words in the opponents mouth is contrived also. He would know that they considered him a barbarian and simplistic and take advantage of it but why would he think it. Also it's a duel of course Baron expects to be swung at and a few lucky connections perhaps. Give him overconfidence but don't make him stupid.

True to type, the Magister would now be out to humiliate him, and that would bring other chances. Not to win, but at least make the contest respectable. The Magister closed in slowly, sword in the classic overhead ‘roof’ with his shuffling legs, in the T stance.

Doe Embulark truly know his opponents thoughts so well, show us that Baron is out to humiliate don't make it seem that he is all knowing and knows the thoughts of his opponents.

I like the concept though it is hard to conceive that a society so peaceful would organize a sport so potentially viscious. You have some nice descriptions but they don't seem genuine to me and the whole piece seems a bit staged and contrived. Go ahead and get a little showy but first show there is a real duel going on. True Baron may consider him a barbarian and at first underestimate, then he gets angry humiliated and maybe Embulark can play it up so that he becomes more so and uses it against him. I'd find it more intriguing if he then pushed his anger aside and got down to really dueling.

You have a good start to something that could generate alot of interest just needs some rework to hold interest better.

 

[emburmak]

American boxing has popularized the "in this corner" phrase,


>Duels in fixed areas 'rings' have existed throughout human history, modern boxing is just an incarnation of that. My duel is one such but with blunt swords and it ended with a knockout.


I'd avoid the use of the word announcer as well, if you are going to describe his voice you might as well name him or it's a little unnecessary information.


>Why should I name a characther whose appearance is only to comment on a duel? We are seeing things through Emburmak's POV and he has just arrived and does not know the name. As I commented on earlier in a response to a earlier critique, this is the climax to the event, that has a series of performances. Boxers in modern times rarely know the name of the announcer. As a matter of fact how many in the crowd will actually remember the name?

Let me give you an example of a rewrite:

If you've ever seen Knights Tale then you could go with an introduction like that as well which would be very entertaining and a great intro to the piece.



>First and foremost my world might seem medieval but it is not. I have seen knight's tale but that has nothing in common with my world: There are no mounted jousts. The closest should be Roman times with a good dose of Samurai dominated Japan, but devoid of the conflicts and strife. You seem to be falling into the trap of transposing the scene to a european medieval one. Ideally a fictional world should be unique, drawing its form from those that actually existed. that is the case here.


Ok in all traditional senses of Duels, they are always with the same weapon, which usually the one challenged got to pick. Backsword's and falchions are from different eras as well, though this could be considered unimportant the choice of the usage of backsword threw me, while it may be used for dueling today it was originally a secondary weapon for cavalry.

>I wonder if you know what you are talking about. Duels were held with different weapons, for example those held in the Coliseum--a short sword and shield might face a trident and net, or long sword.


Get rid of "drew his duelling sword" and simply state he drew his weapon you've already educated us to what type of weapon and that they are in a duel it seems repetitive information the way it is presented. I think labeling the Baron as a Paladin is too contrived. I've never heard of Paladins being known for their quick drawing ability.


>What to do know about Paladins in my world? This is an excerpt that is on page 200 of my MS. If you had read that far you would know what a Paladin was, specific to my imaginary world. The art of the draw is very important in my world to the Paladin caste, and akin to Iaido in japanese Samurai.

I'd rephrase this whole part of why he believes the Baron is fast. Did he hear it from rumor and usually in duels with swords you don't draw your weapon after the bout begins, so thus it seems even more contrived.

>Who told you?

Drawing is an art of which Paladins in my world are supposed to be supreme. So it would be folly for Emburmak to go toe-to-toe with one.

I have a real issue with this whole paragraph. He knows he's up against a champion and any real swordmaster would take him out while he's busy twirling around and trying to show off. End of battle.

>Not if he stays outside striking distance, which is the case here.

I now just want to dress Magister in a little tutu and not take him seriously, and write him off as the biggest buffoon who ever was allowed to handle a weapon. Sorry first impressions count big and you've just made him in my mind a ballerina twirling pansy. Though I love the idea of him showing off as he enters the arena and playing to the crowd I think you are doing so in a manner that doesnt serve your character well.


>Unfortunately you are basing your info on insuffucient knowledge. I think you are mistaking this as some short story. Part of the military's attraction is in dressing. In times of extended peace such mode of attire will become more ostentatious.

In my book, that particular opening the Magister initiates, is one used to teach new Paladins about the paucity of their academy training. The Magister will use it earlier in the book with great success. He uses it here not knowing that his opponent has been trained by Crylock a great Paladin in his own right as the text infers to. Emburmak gambles and uses a counter he picked from Crylock.


Two quirks I have here. Even though Baron knows Emburmak is a champion he probably still dismisses him as a crude barbarian, that is what the first part of your piece seemed to insinuate how the general populace saw him.


>The Baron thinks he is a champion, ie at level of a new Paladin at best, but not a Master Paladin, talkless of a Magister Paladin. He is not aware that Emburmak is totally conversant with Paladin techniques. The crowd see it as a 'show' with the outcome certain.

Two: Are you really going to use the word soldiers here, and throw everyone in confusion about are duellists all soldiers in a populace that has no war, and consider duelling a social bout?


>The society has no war but it has soldiers. These soldiers compete in tourneys and tournaments to in part justify their continued existence. The empire has threats but these have been dormant for over a thousand years. These events are the premier recreation of this society. The Paladin caste is actually the Officer caste of the Empire. An example of the times in my world can be infered from Japan during the Tokugawa Shogunate. That was less than 300 years of peace and yet the samurai still existed but had evolve to be relevant.


Would the word even be used in your society.
Land of the great flashy duels. I'd rather you exhibited some standard swordplay here first then have this essentially first point over with Ballerina spins and gymnastics.


>You seem to be ignorant of gladitoral contests in the coliseum. One cardinal feature-- the more showy the better. The crowd has to appreciate it and the more spectacular the better. This is infact historical and current. Few fights on Tv are in fact 'real'. Recent examples are Kung-fu movies and sword fighting movies and even punch-ups. These have little to do with efficiency or reality. It is mostly show, but the audience can appreciate it.

I'd rather his opponent underestimate him. I don't think a seasoned duelist would make that sort of mistake unless he dismissed his opponent as barbaric unworthy.


>Emburmak, has talent but is not a seasoned duellist as the text makes clear. He is supposed to be a sacrificial lamb, crowning the event, while at the same time showcasing the absolute superiority of the Empire's soldiers. The Magister is also one of the foremost duelists in the Empire one of the few with the Title, Magister. He is supposedly facing an unknown uncouth barbarain. Thus the faster and more spectaculer it ends the better. That did not happen and that is why the crowd fell silent. The Magister attempt's to pass it off.



Again modern word usage "ref"


>That has been done, thanks.


Reword, reusage of overconfidence again. Emburmak places words in the opponents mouth is contrived also.


>Where exactly did I overuse overconfidence to merit a reword?

One who is highly skilled in what he does carries around him a cloak of great confidence. This can stray to overconfidence, especially when underestimating the opposition. I can give numerous examples but let me leave it at that.


He would know that they considered him a barbarian and simplistic and take advantage of it but why would he think it. Also it's a duel of course Baron expects to be swung at and a few lucky connections perhaps. Give him overconfidence but don't make him stupid.


>Again you are out of tune with the scene, allowing your pre-concieved prejudices to interfere. Emburmak is not a barbarain but is made to appear as one. He is at best thought to be a mercenary, even the falchion he is armed with is a giveaway. It is the premier weapon of the mercenary caste. Under normal circumstances a highly trained Paladin versus a middle of the road mercenary should be no contest. But Emburmak is highly talented and was trained by one and so knows their mode of thought. Again the text shows the initial over-confidence of the Paladin taking a knock. He get's up slowly no doubt evaluating... He has to restore 'honour' so to speak.

Doe Embulark truly know his opponents thoughts so well, show us that Baron is out to humiliate don't make it seem that he is all knowing and knows the thoughts of his opponents.


>I do not know if you have been in fights, duels etc. But you can actually see 'steps' ahead while evaluating different scenarios in your mind. You do not stand there like mindless robot. In one scene I show Emburmak making a mistake and 'seeing' a strike before it lands.


>To explain the Paladin's mind-set, let me use Chess as an example. If a grandmaster has a match with an expert (really an amateur), but unexpectedly losses the first game, what will his mind-set be?

He will not only want to win to pass off the loss as a blimp to the onlookers, but will like to anhnnialate this opponent on the board. It will almost be like how dare he?

The grandmaster might at the begining make some unsound sacrifices at the beginning to win in spectacular style, confident that his skill is so superior to the opposition. He will be shocked by the first loss. He will then be more cautious but still try to win in good style. Same here in this dueling scene.

I like the concept though it is hard to conceive that a society so peaceful would organize a sport so potentially viscious.

>This is viscious only to your modern mind. In an older society this is not the case. Even in modern times, crowds flock to executions for example.


You have some nice descriptions but they don't seem genuine to me and the whole piece seems a bit staged and contrived. Go ahead and get a little showy but first show there is a real duel going on.

>What will you consider a real duel? Karate kid? That is as far from the real thing as to be laughable. A knight's tale? It has some interesting moments, but is infused with a lot of fantasy. Duels in writing and Tv have to have a high dose of fantasy to be appreciated by the public. The truth is somehow different and only a purist would appreciate it. For example how many people know that in sharp sword duels that is not conventional to parry with the edge, but with the flat? The pommel, crossguard, legs and arms are integral parts of 'real' duelling but how often are these actually pointed out?

If you want me to go completely commerical say so.

True Baron may consider him a barbarian and at first underestimate, then he gets angry humiliated and maybe Embulark can play it up so that he becomes more so and uses it against him. I'd find it more intriguing if he then pushed his anger aside and got down to really dueling.

>But that is exactly what happened. The contest evolves and the Paladin realises the quality of his opponent. Instead of getting angry, he makes Emburmak get angry, while at the same repairing the damage. The crowd roars in jubilation, Emburmak responds with anger, overeaches, walks into a trap, and as a consequence loses.

You have a good start to something that could generate alot of interest just needs some rework to hold interest better.



>This is not some start but buried deep in the book. I would think that if you read to page 200 of a book, certain concepts perculiar to that world will become clear to you. Thanks for your critique anyway.

 

[Keri]

Your taking a critique way too personally instead of using it. If one or more people see the same thing then maybe there is something you should address. I'm going to be honest and straightforward in my opinion and the comments you made in response are excuses. You claim to know yet you don't bother to double check. Look up any definition of duel and you will see same weapon mentioned. Games in the Roman Coliseum were just that they were considered spectacles or games, never in any literature that I've seen have they been referred to as duels.

Please take critiques for what they are as trying to improve your work. If you get sensitive and critisize everything we try to point out you are not benefiting whatsoever from these forums, as obviously you already know best.

 

[Keri]

PS. No I don't consider Karate Kid a duel at all but a tournament and a well written film at least the first one. I was trying to make a viable observation of a showy move not working and you again took it personal.

 

[Pyan]

A bit of friendly advice - tone it down a little.
Emburbak, you posted wanting critique - if you don't like what you get, just say "Thank you", and ignore it.
Keri, perhaps you might look at the tone of your critique, and make it more impersonal.

One thing this site is noted for is its family-like and tolerant nature, and the mods don't take kindly to people that may jeopardise that reputation.

As I said, just a friendly word.


Duplicated in Regnants: Prologue

 

[emburmak]

Your taking a critique way too personally instead of using it. If one or more people see the same thing then maybe there is something you should address. I'm going to be honest and straightforward in my opinion and the comments you made in response are excuses. You claim to know yet you don't bother to double check. Look up any definition of duel and you will see same weapon mentioned. Games in the Roman Coliseum were just that they were considered spectacles or games, never in any literature that I've seen have they been referred to as duels.

Please take critiques for what they are as trying to improve your work. If you get sensitive and critisize everything we try to point out you are not benefiting whatsoever from these forums, as obviously you already know best.

I am not taking offense but there is little of your critiques to use. Except for few which other critiques have also pointed out, yours are wrong and based on wrong summations. Alot of your 'critiques' come across as 'superficial' and 'put downs' as if you have some score to settle. Go through my posts, to nobody have I responded to as I have to you. Theirs are honest critiques clearly outlining my mistakes.

Lets take your outcrop critique for example. Villagers in older times had mounds around the farm-land to use as vantage points so they could use it to have an unobstructed view over and above the fields of cultivated plants. The advantage is obvious from using during the planting season at as rest point etc , but you simply critiqued it as bad without me understanding why. That these things have faded from modern society does not preclude me from putting it in my piece.

I give expanded answers based on the plot, you call them excuses. Paladins have uses in my world that is alien to your experience as you are not privy to my world. So your comments on how I use Paladin is mystifying. The 'spectacle' as you call is called the 'show' in my world.

I was shocked when you told me 'midday' is better and less recent than 'noon'?

Or another about the Sun 'hangiing'? I know that the Sun 'hangs' at noon.

Putting down the 'art of the draw' is another thing. You shot it down without actually realising its inherent import. Paladin versus Paladin always starts from the draw. I am reasonably proficient in the dueling art and it is reflected in my writings, what is wrong with that?

If you read earlier, in answer to a question, I said 'munus or wake celebration 'which exactly what my show is. This kind of after-death ceremony was pervalent in the pre-imperial Roman era and is where gladiators came from. At the end of the festivities, a duel between gladiators would be the crowning event. They could use whatever weapons they felt comfortable with within the ambit of the rules. Later on these 'events' were hosted to the populace to curry political favour for elections, culminating during the imperial era to use by Emperors. So I adapted this to my world.

My world and its events are not created in a vacuum, but are based on sound historical ones. That perhaps you misidentified which ones and made conclusions based on that, is honestly not my fault.

I know my history, and base alot of my world thus. Critiquing is one thing but basing a critique on false superior misconceptions is wrong. That you equally adopted a condescending manner was also not helpful. However let bygones be bygones. Maybe I came along too strong in my rebutal so I sincerely apologise.

Let me say it again, the duel is the climax in a munus or wake celebration, a 'show', set up by a local figure to further her political ambitions, a well known tactic in Rome. I cannot post the whole show due to space considerations. And based on the posting rules, I stated exactly where I required critiques: grammar and structure. I will PM you the whole event, it is just over twice as long, feel free to critique it as extensively as you want.


Every writter brings a bit of his background into his writing, so have I. Your comments in certain areas are incomprehensible to me. Things like dueling and martial academies, roman and japanese history are things in which I have a lot of experience, both practically and otherwise. I might not know how to translate them correctly into concise writing yet, but that is what I am here for.

Keri, honest constructive critiques is what I am here for and try to do my bit as I see it. All I ask is that you do likewise. Peace.

 

[Keri]

Lets take your outcrop critique for example. Villagers in older times had mounds around the farm-land to use as vantage points so they could use it to have an unobstructed view over and above the fields of cultivated plants. The advantage is obvious from using during the planting season at as rest point etc , but you simply critiqued it as bad without me understanding why. That these things have faded from modern society does not preclude me from putting it in my piece.

Outcrop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is how I see outcropping the definition from encyclopedia above. I simply was trying to point out that you were using it in regards to plants when it usually is geological.

I give expanded answers based on the plot, you call them excuses. Paladins have uses in my world that is alien to your experience as you are not privy to my world. So your comments on how I use Paladin is mystifying. The 'spectacle' as you call is called the 'show' in my world.

I'm sorry I may not be privy to all information but I'm basing my critique on what information I have and it sounded contrived here to me.

I was shocked when you told me 'midday' is better and less recent than 'noon'?

I was suggesting another word, if I remember correctly the flow of that sentence just didn't come out correctly for me. It just seemed very modern in the context used. I know noon was used very early based off the latin Nona I believe but I was reminded of how the scandanavians kept time in this part and they kept track of daymarks and the central daymark was usually highday or midday, thus my suggestion of the word. Because when you were basing it off the sun it seemed more natural to me.

Or another about the Sun 'hangiing'? I know that the Sun 'hangs' at noon.

I was questioning the sentence formation not the aspect of the Sun nor your imagery portraying its position, and was trying to provide an example of how I might reword it of course do it in your own words and if you want the sun to hang by all means let it hang just it didnt seem like a natural sentence to me.

Putting down the 'art of the draw' is another thing. You shot it down without actually realising its inherent import. Paladin versus Paladin always starts from the draw. I am reasonably proficient in the dueling art and it is reflected in my writings, what is wrong with that?

Well I wasnt shooting down any artform in your duel. Though I believe from what you stated they do have rules and thus I would assume they either started swords/weapons drawn or there was some rule in place that they drew upon start of match. It just seemed contrived to me or too convenient. Perhaps you could just add a little here is he breaking the rules by drawing before combat or is he simply not adhering to normal protocal.
You clearly stated he was doing it so that Magister didnt have an advantage but is this breaking the rules a barbaric thing to do? Or is this part of a match freeform where whoever makes the first move before it starts decides upon that bit of protocal? I simply was unclear so wished you to either clarify it, simplify it or expound upon it.

If you read earlier, in answer to a question, I said 'munus or wake celebration 'which exactly what my show is. This kind of after-death ceremony was pervalent in the pre-imperial Roman era and is where gladiators came from. At the end of the festivities, a duel between gladiators would be the crowning event. They could use whatever weapons they felt comfortable with within the ambit of the rules. Later on these 'events' were hosted to the populace to curry political favour for elections, culminating during the imperial era to use by Emperors. So I adapted this to my world.

Yes I agree the romans had events facing one another. The origin of the word duel though I believe didnt occur until the 15th century and was mainly and is most widely used to refer to matches that are the same weapon eithe r pistols or swords. I believe it devoloped out of judicial system thus my questioning of the differing weapons though of course. You can of course make duels in your universe have differing weapons though it would be neat if you could work in a little more background on your dueling system worked into the descriptions thus the question wouldnt arise in my mind.

My world and its events are not created in a vacuum, but are based on sound historical ones. That perhaps you misidentified which ones and made conclusions based on that, is honestly not my fault[/QUOTE]
We can agree to disagree I based conclusions on your writing and what you presented to me. I never thought you were in a vacuum and of course you have considerable artistic license I just need a little more information worked in so that I dont question it.
Of course make your world your own, I expect nothing less but if you use a basis of any history I like for the words and items to be concurrent with that period. It is confusing when one moment there is modern sounding words and cliches and the next there are seemingly from Early Roman to Medieval timeframes.

I know my history, and base alot of my world thus. Critiquing is one thing but basing a critique on false superior misconceptions is wrong. That you equally adopted a condescending manner was also not helpful. However let bygones be bygones. Maybe I came along too strong in my rebutal so I sincerely apologise.

I'm not trying to be superior I'm stating it as I perceive it and how it is coming across. Perhaps others are more tactful in their critiques but honestly if you critique me I would want and enjoy you pointing out anything you dislike and why as well as what you thought worked for you. I did try to point out what I saw as working. I take anything anyone writes about what I write with a grain of salt but I also look at why they would think that and see if it's something I think should be addressed or not. By no means do I think you need to take in all my suggestions just work with the ones that you can honestly say I dont have a point.

I'm not saying you don't know history at all perhaps though some of your wording led me to believe we were basing it on an era that it wasnt in.

Let me say it again, the duel is the climax in a munus or wake celebration, a 'show', set up by a local figure to further her political ambitions, a well known tactic in Rome. I cannot post the whole show due to space considerations. And based on the posting rules, I stated exactly where I required critiques: grammar and structure. I will PM you the whole event, it is just over twice as long, feel free to critique it as extensively as you want.

I'd be happy to have more basis from which to look at it and yes indeed I want it to be a great show and dramatic. It was more the buildup of it that I was looking at and I made comparisons of how I was perceiving your characters at that given moment. It just seemed you started with the fireworks and I thought it could benefit with a little more buildup. The wording here bothered me also because I couldnt correlate pirouettes with the swordplay. Now if you had told me "The Crowd cheered as Magister displayed his Pirouette move" or had perhaps described the spins in another manner. I like to build mental images of a scene and ballerina immediately popped into my mind because of the word Pirouette.

Every writter brings a bit of his background into his writing, so have I. Your comments in certain areas are incomprehensible to me. Things like dueling and martial academies, roman and japanese history are things in which I have a lot of experience, both practically and otherwise. I might not know how to translate them correctly into concise writing yet, but that is what I am here for.

I'm not saying you don't have any background its obvious you know something of what you speak just the wording didnt lay quite the foundation for me that it should have in places and yet was very good in others and i will try to point out more the places I liked alot, I was focusing on what I thought would be an improvement though.

 

[emburmak]

Outcrop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is how I see outcropping the definition from encyclopedia above. I simply was trying to point out that you were using it in regards to plants when it usually is geological.

>I used 'outcrop' so as to assist my 'mound' description.

Maybe my interpretation might have been better. What I have in mind are those mounds as I have originally described, with them hidding/waiting there.The two men waiting by an overgrowth?---does that sound right? Do you have any suggestions?


I was suggesting another word, if I remember correctly the flow of that sentence just didn't come out correctly for me. It just seemed very modern in the context used. I know noon was used very early based off the latin Nona I believe but I was reminded of how the scandanavians kept time in this part and they kept track of daymarks and the central daymark was usually highday or midday, thus my suggestion of the word.

>I dont know about scandanavians but I have spent a few years in the tropics with my grandfather and few things are based on interactions with him--The mounds, the sun hanging etc. When I was a child, I once asked him the time, he told me it was noon. I looked at my wrist watch and it was five past. I asked how he knew and he said, "look the sun is hanging". I looked and it was or appeared to for quite a while.

He came from a society that was uncivililised as recently as a 100 years ago. He was born in nineteenth century and could still remember the 'old' times. He could accurately measure the time by looking at the position of the Sun, could predict the weather by looking at the clouds, read tracks etc.



I was questioning the sentence formation not the aspect of the Sun nor your imagery portraying its position, and was trying to provide an example of how I might reword it of course do it in your own words and if you want the sun to hang by all means let it hang just it didnt seem like a natural sentence to me.

>The main reason it is there is to show the passage of time after the impending conflict when the sun would have crossed the sky. nevertheless, based on your comments I will look into it again.

Well I wasnt shooting down any artform in your duel. Though I believe from what you stated they do have rules and thus I would assume they either started swords/weapons drawn or there was some rule in place that they drew upon start of match. It just seemed contrived to me or too convenient.


>Paladins start as a rule from the initial position, with weapons sheathed as do the duels. remember this is not a war or battle of armies but a one versus one duel. When samurai get into the duels, they usually give a litany of their achievements and family name etc. Then both can be still from anywhere from a few moments to much longer. Then suddenly they will excute the draw and attack each other. Maybe it is the word 'duel' that is causing the confusion in your mind. In my world all tourneys are a collection of elimination duels.

Perhaps you could just add a little here is he breaking the rules by drawing before combat or is he simply not adhering to normal protocal.

>No he is not. The moment its starts any competitor can do what they like.


I simply was unclear so wished you to either clarify it, simplify it or expound upon it.

>You have a point, but I would have to make sure it is not a repitition in the MS text. Usually by page 200 of 400+ book the explanations have been made.


Yes I agree the romans had events facing one another. The origin of the word duel though I believe didnt occur until the 15th century and was mainly and is most widely used to refer to matches that are the same weapon eithe r pistols or swords. You can of course make duels in your universe have differing weapons though it would be neat if you could work in a little more background on your dueling system worked into the descriptions thus the question wouldnt arise in my mind.


>Of course you are right about its origins, but in my world, duels are of the gladitorial or samurai sort. And I cannot find another word that describes this to my satifaction.

I never thought you were in a vacuum and of course you have considerable artistic license I just need a little more information worked in so that I dont question it.


>Okay but do realise that it is a bit more difficult to do in an excerpt of a MS than a short-story. I simply pulled the scene from page 200 becuase I was unhappy with the build-up, but due to posting rules decided to post the dueling scene, reserving the build-up for later in the week when I would re-worked it to my satisfaction.


It is confusing when one moment there is modern sounding words and cliches and the next there are seemingly from Early Roman to Medieval timeframes.

I'm not trying to be superior I'm stating it as I perceive it and how it is coming across.


>I think I have better feel for your humour now. All I can say was the way it came across it looked like you were mocking me. It did not help when you insinuated the 'jordan' comment. I take pride in my writing and will not go and copy another writer's creation. It might be similar but it will definitely be my own.


I'm not saying you don't know history at all perhaps though some of your wording led me to believe we were basing it on an era that it wasnt in.


>That was part of the problem.


The wording here bothered me also because I couldnt correlate pirouettes with the swordplay. Now if you had told me "The Crowd cheered as Magister displayed his Pirouette move" or had perhaps described the spins in another manner. I like to build mental images of a scene and ballerina immediately popped into my mind because of the word Pirouette.


>You are mistaking this duel for a rapier one of 16th century where distance and timing is everything and where the sword is held point-first facing the opponent in the horizontal. The rapier's main attack is thrusting, with long lunging steps. There is no need for pivots.


Paladin stlye is based on the Samurai katana and two-handed long sword, and these use a lot of pirouettes in their styles. It is a two-handed stlye with the sword held at the near vertical 'roof' style. The main attack style is the draw-cut, ie slashing. A lot of this cutting power is generated by swiveling the hips, so pirouettes and pivots are used. Distance is not so important as is speed, power and technique, with short shuffling steps, ready to pivot or turn.

>Let me post some comments on the katana which the backsword is based on vis the rapier you are thinking about.



The Katana has a good deal of agility as well as being able to thrust some. Kenjutsu cuts are delivered in quick succession using a flowing manner. Its two-hand grip can generate great power by using a sort of "torqueing" method with additional force added from the hips. The katana's cutting power and edge sharpness is also legendary.
The katana has a well-rounded offence to defence, and is much more symmetrical in its handling. It can make great close-in draw cuts and is an agile weapon with quick footwork of its own.

The Rapier is not the flimsy tool of the modern sport, nor is it used in the same flicking manner. It is longer, stronger, heavier, and involves a greater range of techniques and moves. The rapier's penetrating stabs have great reach and are very quick, particularly on the disengage. But it can still be grabbed and lacks cutting offense.

Obviously, a katana can't match the rapier thrust for thrust. What a rapier does best is fight point-on with linear stabs, and no heavier, wider blade will possibly out maneuver it. Playing to the rapier's strength by using a katana horizontally is a losing game.

While not every puncture with a rapier would be lethal, to be sure, virtually every cut by a katana was intended to kill instantly.

>Simply replace katana with backsword and I hope this gives you a better idea of the diffference in styles between the backsword and the medival rapier. The former uses cuts and swivels so pivots and turns are neccessary to its use. Have you watched Blade? Or the Seven Samurai? Either of these films depict the style I am trying to portray.

I'm not saying you don't have any background its obvious you know something of what you speak just the wording didnt lay quite the foundation for me that it should have in places and yet was very good in others and i will try to point out more the places I liked alot, I was focusing on what I thought would be an improvement though.

>Please, I am alway ready to hear your constructive opinions and critiques and will do my best to do likewise. Thanks.