Mieville Recommends...

[Jayaprakash Satyamurthy]

Here's an interesting reading list compiled by China Mieville called 'Fifty Fantasy & Science Fiction Works That Socialists Should Read' : http://www.fantasticmetropolis.com/show.html?rw,50socialist,1

I'm a political agnostic if anything, but there is a real interest in politically engaged fiction, and the list is quite sweeping, from works where the political or social themes are covert, like M John Harrison's Viriconium to Ursula Le Guin's piercing examination of capitalist and communist utopias in The Disposessed. Apart from that, Mieville's blurbs for each book are concise and admirably expressive. I can't resist quoting his take on one of my least favourite works of speculative politics:

Ayn Rand -- Atlas Shrugged (1957)
Know your enemy. This panoply of portentous Nietzcheanism lite has had a huge influence on American SF. Rand was an obsessive "objectivist" (libertarian pro-capitalist individualist) whose hatred of socialism and any form of "collectivism" is visible in this important and influential -- though vile and ponderous -- novel.

 

[Rane Longfox]

Wow, i'm three fiftieths socialist... Odd list though, Northern Lights?

 

[littlemissattitude]

Well, I've always considered myself to be firmly moderate. Then again, recent events have been radicalizing me a bit, although I'm not anywhere near being a socialist - I'm not a big fan of economic systems.

However...I've read very little on this list. I would highly recommend this, however:

Charlotte Perkins Gilman -- "The Yellow Wallpaper" (1892)
Towering work by this radical thinker. Terrifying short story showing how savage gender oppression can inhere in "caring" relationships just as easily as in more obviously abusive ones. See also her feminist/socialistic utopias "Moving the Mountain" (1911) and Herland (1914).

It is just an amazing and, yes, terrifying story. Read it for a class a few years back.

Also, I would highly recommend Octavia Butler's "Kindred", which Mieville mentions in passing while writing about another of Butler's books. "Kindred" is about an African American woman from the present who is repeatedly taken back to the South before the Civil War. It is a very good novel.

 

[Jayaprakash Satyamurthy]

Oddly, one of my friends recently linked me to the Charlotte Perkins story online: http://itech.fgcu.edu/faculty/wohlpart/alra/gilman.htm#INSERT%203

 

[Jay]

Just browsing through the list I haven't read any more than 2 dozen of those, which means I have made some questioanble decisons. I've got some books to buy


Thanks for the list

 

[rune]

None of those books appeal to me and I've read Northern Lights and didnt think it was that political at all

 

[Jay]

IMHO Viriconuium, by M John Harrison is one of the top 5 best fantasy/sci-fi series ever written. Mieville also mentions Course of Heat by MJH, which is novle that belongs on all top 20 speculative fiction lists IMHO.

Other novels listed on their that I think are of the highest quality listed:

Use of Weapons - Ian M. Banks (really anything buy Banks represent among teh best sci-fi recently)

The Master and Maragrita - Mikhail Bulgakov (classic literature)

A Scanner Darkly - Philip K DIck - (move coming out and Dick is a legend)

Strange Evil - Jane Gaskel

The Star Fraction - Ken Macleod - Haven't read this particular novel by Macleod but he is defintely a upper echelon author for mwhat I can tell of hsi otehr work.

Wicked - Gregory Maguire - Admittedly, I think this was overated.

He mentions Moorcock who is of course a god in fantasy/sci-fi

Gormenghast - Mervyn Peake - Along with MJH's Viriconium in my top 5 works of speculative fiction ever and maybe the #1.

Northern Compass - Phillip Pullman - IMHO Pullman is far and away the best author writing speculaive fiction for younger readers.

The Mars trilogy - Kim Stanley Robinson

Mary Shelley is of course a classic legend in literature.


Iron Dragon's Daugther - Michael Swanwick - The only stand alone novels worth reading with elves in it besides perhaps Matt Stover's Blades of Tyshalle since maybe 50 years ago in Poul Anderson's classic Broken Sword and not written by Tolkien.

Guilver travels - Swift - Classic.

Island of R. Moreau - HG Wells - Forget the retarded movie one of the best horror novels ever written

Oscar Wilde is a Legend

Fifth Head of Cerebus - Gene Wolfe - If Mieville deosn't have the best prose Wolfe does currently IMHO. 3 Superior novellas.

From what I have read this is a awesome list.

 

[Jayaprakash Satyamurthy]

Damn it is nice to encounter someone who reads so much.

 

[Thadlerian]

Ursula K. Le Guin—The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia (1974)

The most overtly political of this anarchist writer’s excellent works. An examination of the relations between a rich, exploitive capitalist world and a poor, nearly barren (though high-tech) communist one.

Not quite. Anarres is an anarchist world (not very high-tech either). The state of anarchy is the goal of communism, but only as a product of a revolution and a dictatorship of the proletariat. There was no revolution on Anarres, the Odonians just moved there.
To be really nitpicking, Urras isn't really a capitalist world either, it's a mix of several systems. Thu is a Soviet-like communist state.

Mervyn Peake—The Gormenghast Novels (1946–59)

An austere depiction of dead ritualism and necessary transformation. Don’t believe those who say that the third book is disappointing.

On the other hand, he's damn right about that last point!

 

[Brys]

Just browsing through the list I haven't read any more than 2 dozen of those, which means I have made some questioanble decisons. I've got some books to buy


Thanks for the list

Well remember "This is not a list of the “best” fantasy or SF", they're all to do with socialism/politics in fantasy and science fiction, so he's likely to find more obscure ones in it.

I'd say that Mieville still has the best prose in fantasy today - Wolfe has a few pretty good bits, but IMO he doesn't come that close to Mieville overall (based on the Book of the New Sun - maybe he's got better prose elsewhere, but it isn't quite as good as some of Mieville's, though it's still excellent).

Annares is quite high tech - they don't have much in resources, but it specifically mentions that they didn't pursue their ideals so far that it would lead to any decline in the level of technology - it's an anarcho-socialist world. On the political compass, it would be at the bottom left - ie collectivist libertarianism, rather than communism's more common authoritarian collectivism.

 

[Nesacat]

It's a very intriguing list and these are the ones I've read and would definitely recommend. Was quite surprised actuallt to find I'd read and really liked so many of the ones on the list.

Mikhail Bulgakov—The Master and Margarita ... there's the Devil and there's a cat. It's a very well written book indeed.

Thomas Disch—The Priest ... Utterly savage is certainly an apt description. It's very dark fantasy. Very haunting. A book that creeps under your skin.

Jane Gaskell—Strange Evil ... you can tell that she was very young when she wrote it, which perhaps adds to it's disturbing quality. definitely has an extremely creepy baddy.

Mary Gentle—Rats and Gargoyles ... Loved the protagonist and the city that was so strange and yet terribly familiar.

Charlotte Perkins Gilman—“The Yellow Wallpaper” ... One of the most frightening stories I have ever read, more so for the fact that the relationship was meant to be a 'caring' one.

M. John Harrison—Viriconium Nights ... an amazingly vivid landscape that for me at least gave a whole new meaning to the love of fantasy.

Gregory Maguire—Wicked ... So long as the lion cannot speak, history will always be written by the hunter. Here, the lion is given a voice and a wonderful voice it is too.

Toni Morrison—Beloved ... One of the best ghost stories I have ever read. Admittedly it's also a powerful tale of race and slavery but for me it will always be a fantastic ghost story first.

Mervyn Peake—The Gormenghast Novels ... How not to love Gormenghast and all its trappings of dead rituals and the terrible but inevitable forces of change.

Philip Pullman—Northern Lights ... One of my all-time favourite young adult books in recent times. Explores some complex ideas in rather novel ways. And then there's the bears.

Kim Stanley Robinson—The Mars Trilogy ... Another one of those books that I was wary of when I started since I tend to lean more towards fantasy but these were amazing. 3 books, 3 centuries and a host of beliveable, and detailed characters. I appreciate that the books are as scientifically "correct" as possible and the settings very realistic.

Mary Shelley—Frankenstein, or the Modern Prometheus ... This has always been a favourite. Agree that it's not a warning “not to mess with things that should be let alone” but rather a warning that there is a need to be responsible for choices made and to see things through to the end however bloody they may be.

Michael Swanwick—The Iron Dragon’s Daughter ... I have to admit that I didn't think I'd be able to get into this book and was very surprised to find that I could not put it down. It's a very compulsive read, especially since I've always loved fantasy and this definitely anti-fantasy.

Jonathan Swift—Gulliver’s Travels ... This has always been a favourite ever since I was a kid. I've read it many times over the years and it's almost a totally different tale now.

H.G. Wells—The Island of Dr Moreau ... They made an awful movie but the book is a must read. A very good horror story and a very disturbing one too, once you get around to thinking about the possibilities it puts forward.

Oscar Wilde—The Happy Prince and Other Stories ... Very moving and insightful and stripped of sentimentality.

Gene Wolfe—The Fifth Head of Cerberus ... Not an easy read and certainly not a happy read but a very good take of social realities.

I've not read any of China Mieville's books but was recetly given Perdido Street Station. It had been pretty low on my to-read-pile but after reading several of the threads here it's been moved to the top.

 

[GOLLUM]

Well get cracking then Cat....

I've read most of the books highlighted, it's an excellent list from a great talent of our times.

 

[the smiling weirwood]

Is China Mieville a socialist? I couldn't tell anything about him from his book, except that he idolizes the desert, no doubt due to his time in the Midle East.

 

[Brys]

He's a hardcore socialist, stood in the elections as an Socialist Worker's Party member and one of the most left wing authors I can think of. It takes a certain level of skill to be able to hide it so well in his books (well, except in Iron Council anyway).

 

[Storm Centurion]

While I am a fan of King Rat, which led me here, am I the only one that finds himself getting uneasy at Mieville's statements regarding Ayn Rand? Yes, she had here flaws and objectivism can be taken too far. But we should reject her Atlas Shrugged because it is pro-libertarion(someone who respects civil liberties and free speeach and such and is pro-capitalist(has its faults but so do they all) and individualist (What does Mieville want? Sheep?)?

I found that comment kinda disturbing.

I am not exactly pro-capitalist but from what I understand, Rand's Anti-socialist, anti-communist leanings come from direct experience under its thumb in the Soviet Union. Maybe she could have a point. Why reject her for libertarian values and being anti-socialist?

 

[kaelcarp]

Why reject her for libertarian values and being anti-socialist?

Because Mieville himself is a very strong socialist, one who actually ran for office as such. Naturally, he's going to consider anything anti-socialist to be antithetical to his own views.

Personally, while I'm not a socialist, I'm not a fan of Rand's political beliefs. She glorifies capitalists and egoism way too much and seems to be either in denial of or unaware of the drawbacks of unhindered capitalism. Her views seem as naive to me as anything communism ever produced.

 

[Ursa major]

Is China Mieville a socialist? I couldn't tell anything about him from his book, except that he idolizes the desert, no doubt due to his time in the Midle East.

His political sympathies are most obvious in Iron Council, but I've always put his hatred of New Crobuzon (or, rather, the feelings this city state evokes in Miéville's characters in all three Bas Lag books) down to his view of the society in which he lives, i.e. antipathy. As he's a good writer above anything else, it doesn't intrude in a way that would drive a non-socialist away, i.e. it's easy to forget his political leanings and simply immerse oneself in the books.

 

[kaelcarp]

As he's a good writer above anything else, it doesn't intrude in a way that would drive a non-socialist away, i.e. it's easy to forget his political leanings and simply immerse oneself in the books.

I agree. I think even if I were an Objectivist, I could enjoy Mieville's work (although an Objectivist might not quite enjoy Iron Council, I guess). Other than IC and a short story or two, his politics are not overt in his stories.

 

[gil]

I've read 6 of these, all of which but one are excellent.

Pavane I have as individual parts in my collection of the whole run of Impulse magazine. I loved these stories.

Gormenghast - one of the mainsprings of my youth. Fantastic story, well told. A friend of mine was similarly captivated, and owns a unique collection of Peake ephemera, original hand-written text and drawings.

Use of Weapons, yes.

Watson's Slow Birds... well, OK in parts. The anti-Thatcher stuff is frankly tedious, a sort of weak case of Ben Elton.

Pullman's Dark Materials.. yes.

The Master and Margarita - total piffle, in my opinion. Typical case of an author who has not taken the trouble to limit fantasy and magical powers, just allowing his magician (the devil, in this case) to thrash about, together with a lot of tiresome jokes about politicians whose main claim to fame is as butt of Bulgakov's tiresome jokes. It started well, and I liked the Pontius Pilate business, but it all collapsed in a heap about two thirds through. I think the Kremlin showed good judgement in banning it.

What d'you think? Did I overstate my case?

 

[the smiling weirwood]

His political sympathies are most obvious in Iron Council, but I've always put his hatred of New Crobuzon (or, rather, the feelings this city state evokes in Miéville's characters in all three Bas Lag books) down to his view of the society in which he lives, i.e. antipathy. As he's a good writer above anything else, it doesn't intrude in a way that would drive a non-socialist away, i.e. it's easy to forget his political leanings and simply immerse oneself in the books.

Well, I was unable to tell Orson Scott Card was a fundamental Mormon until I started reading Alvin Maker...so my aptitude for deducing the character of the author from his works is not excessively high.