What do you think of it?

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obcooke

OB-Wan
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WARNING - This thread is intended for discussions of Serenity in detail, so if you haven't seen it, enter at your own risk. There be spoilers here!
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Come on, guys, it's been out almost 24 hours and no one has commented yet?! Well, I'll start it then....

WOW! That's what I said as soon as it ended and then I said that again about half-a-dozen times before I put together a sentence.

I was knocked out by what a good all-around film it is, without any need to know Firefly.

I read repeatedly in the reviews about how the opening quickly explained everything one needed to know about the premise of the series with efficiency, excitment and no boring monologues. But I wasn't prepared for how cleverly Joss went from a short description of the Serenity universe by a little girl, into River & Simon's jailbreak and right into the bad guy to setup the whole story.

So much to talk about and I just woke up, so give me some time to collect my thoughts and decide if I'm going back to see it today or tomorrow. Then we'll talk some more.

But for goodness sake, let's start talking about it.
 
Originally posted by obcooke
Come on, guys, it's been out almost 24 hours and no one has commented yet?!.
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Hopefully, I'll see this Thursday. Until then I don't want to read any more, but Maria's seen it, there must be others, why only one post?

It was beaten at the US Box office by 'Flightplan' which hasn't got good reviews. The UK reviewers have been very positive. Jonathan Ross (BBC TV Film critic) liked it. I think it will do better over here.
 
Okay, let's get right to the nub - DEATH.

After seeing the film, I read an interview with Joss where he discusses the necessity for people to die, but I still am disappointed. I understand the need to tell the story, but I regret that blood had to be spilled.

Book's death was required to send Mal over the edge and make him decide to risk everything/everyone to face the situation rather than running and hiding from the Alliance as he had done since we've known him. Mal finally realizes that unless the enemy is confronted, then all that faces them is slow death, one-by-one, as the Operative hounds them.

Wash's death was required, as Joss said (I'm paraphrasing), if you don't know that people can die suddenly and without reason, then the last half-hour is just "white noise".

In my words - If nobody dies then it becomes a live-action Road Runner cartoon.

I must say on a personal note, I really hated to see any of them die and Wash's death was the most shock and horror I have felt watching a movie in as long as I can remember.

River's apparent death was also a blow.

But death seems to have served it's purpose, because I, and the person I went to the movie with, both wondered at some point, if they were all going to die.

As much as Joss was torturing me with deaths for apparently three of our heroes, it served as a masterful stroke. It seemed darkest just before the dawn.

It made River's reappearance heart-lifting. It also makes the "happy" ending for almost everyone well-earned and almost a surpise ending.
 
It seems pointless to say that it was an incredibly movie and i loved it - but i guess i said so anyway.

As you mentioned, the exposition at the start was really well done. My own slight problem with it was Simon was doing the rescuing. Actually that's not a problem, i liked that it was him but it kinda goes against what he said in Firefly Serenity. I think his character probably went through the most dramatic change - no longer is he just the guy who gets beaten up a lot and everyone walks all over. Instead he's giving Mal orders and ultimatums and pucnhes him! He also finally stops being such a good polite little boy RE Kaylee.

The next scene over the credits with the conversations Mal is having with Wash, Jayne and Zoe is also a really great. It was light-hearted and fun and tells us (well maybe not us, people who haven't watched FF) a lot about the characters.

Wash was a shock. A complete and total shock. I tried really hard to stay spoiler-free but unfortunately had heard that someone would die. So i was tense the whole way through, gasping whenever anyone got mildly hurt. The Book died, which was painful, but i thought that was it so started to relax again. So when Wash died, straight after a very cute comic moment, it was - 'what happened?' But i think it was done so brilliantly. Joss totally manages to make us see it through Zoe. The pace of the film forced us to experience his death the same way she did - shock and pain but without a real chance to mourn. Then Kaylee asks, "Wait--where's Wash?" Still, two weeks later, i can't quite verbalise my reaction to that!

Originally posted by obcooke
But death seems to have served it's purpose, because I, and the person I went to the movie with, both wondered at some point, if they were all going to die.
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Yeah i thought that too. When Zoe says "You really think any of us are gonna get through this." i started having doubts and then she gets shot and Simon is hurt and River traps herself in with a room full of Reavers and Mal is in all sorts of trouble!

Anyway i'm watching it again later today (YAY!) so some more clearer thoughts then.
 
Just saw it! Not many people in the cinema though!:eek: Though it was 13:45 on a Thursday and it was still an advance screening, there are TV adverts to come yet.

I agree about the dying. If I had to keep any character it would probably be Wash, but at one point I also thought that they would all die as in 'The Seven Samarai'/'Magnificent Seven'. I read about how Joss is not afraid to kill off major characters and did so frequently in 'Buffy', and his reasons are solid ones. I've stopped having any belief in the characters of TV shows before when you know they will return next week whatever happens.

The great secret regarding the origin of the Reavers did not come as such a shock to me. The explanation was not exactly anticipated, but I did expect something along those lines. I didn't think we would ever get an explanation, so that was good that we have, and making it a cornerstone of the plot tied everything together. I'm not sure broadcasting it would have so much effect though. Things can be faked, people believe what they want to believe, no one has ever heard of or been to Miranda. I'm surprised that it had such an effect on the Operative. I thought that he would have just had them all killed anyway. That would be the 'Blake's Seven' ending to the film.

I'm sure more will come to me, but can't think of anything now, except who are the Blue Sun Corporation and why do they have hands of blue? That was never covered, though it couldn't cover everything.

I wanted to see more of Book's past. He told Mal that he never will, but apparently there is some explantion in the graphic novels that were released.
 
Originally posted by Dave

I wanted to see more of Book's past. He told Mal that he never will, but apparently there is some explantion in the graphic novels that were released.
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I've only seen the first one and that doesn't mention him much. I think the most popular theory currently is that Book was an operative (or possibly this Operative?)

I saw it twice today! Yeah not intended but none of us had anything else planned :blush: Both times the audience was quite small and seemed to consist of fans. But like you said it's still early.
 
[Originally posted by Dave: If I had to keep any character it would probably be Wash..]

Actually, as much as I like Wash as a comedy relief, if I had to be honest, he was probably the most expendable character. Even though, Joss could write a story without any of them, I think Wash was the logical choice.

[Originally posted by Dave: ...but at one point I also thought that they would all die...]

And you know what's really interesting about that? We all knew there was talk of a sequel. Even the stars at Dragoncon told us that it might happen if the film did well enough. But during the story I forgot all that and was completely in the moment.

I never thought to ask myself - How do they do a sequel if everybody dies?!

[Originally posted by Dave: I read about how Joss is not afraid to kill off major characters and did so frequently in 'Buffy', and his reasons are solid ones.]

Oh man, I hate that guy sometimes. He really bugs me (but in a good way... I guess) with how he is willing to sacrifice characters for the sake of the story. And don't get me started about what he did to Winifred Burkle... Grrrr, Arrgh!

[Originally posted by Dave: I'm surprised that it had such an effect on the Operative. I thought that he would have just had them all killed anyway. That would be the 'Blake's Seven' ending to the film.]

Okay, time for cinema psychology - The Operative was a believer and there is no fury like a believer who feels betrayed. To mix metaphors - When you put people on a pedestal, it's easier to see their feet and find out that they're made of clay.

The Operative may have grown up believing the childhood lessons that River questioned.

The Operative thought (like some brain-dead voters) that the Powers That Be were only interested in the common good, like him. Then he found out that they not only made mistakes, but were willing to murder (sin) to prevent those mistakes from being discovered, addressed and maybe corrected.

He didn't mind committing evil acts in a good cause. He felt that that justified his sins, but to find that his leaders were evil shattered his dream that they would create a better world(s).

And again - The worst company at a party is a fallen believer.

[Originally posted by Dave: ...who are the Blue Sun Corporation and why do they have hands of blue?]

Sequel - remember, sequel. Besides that, they really didn't address a more pertinent question - Was the secret of the Reavers the ONLY information that River got off the VIPs, hmmm?

[Originally posted by Dave: I wanted to see more of Book's past. He told Mal that he never will, but apparently there is some explantion in the graphic novels...]

Sorry, don't do books about TV or movies. I was a huge fan of Buffy, but I never took seriously the comics or paperbacks or coloring books. I can't explain why, they just don't interest me.

In "Safe", Mal and Book have almost the same exchange about the Alliance officer jumping to treat Book's gunshot wound and then just letting them all go after seeing Book's Indentity Card, except Book answers (paraphrasing) - Maybe I will.... someday.

And to pick nits, in the movie all Book says is that he doesn't HAVE to tell Mal. True, he does do it with a note of finality. But he doesn't entirely rule out telling him... someday.

How about a sequel where Book's story is told in flashbacks?
 
Okay, so I just got back from the last showing of the day (I wasn't even planning to go today, 'cuz some imbecile told me it wasn't out 'til tomorrow, but by fluke I managed to thwart his evil plan and the rest is history).

I think Joss actually wrote the best review of the film when he had Mal say 'Good answer' to Inara near the end. So that's my review; good answer.

(Massive spoilers below; read before you've seen it and I will sic the Reavers on you)

Now, I have a few niggles (because I always do), and these actually result from the fact that the film is entirely separable from the TV show - which is a truly amazing achievment. Firstly, this film answers too many questions. Yeah, you heard me right, too many. I worry a little that the sequel (and if it doesn't look like being successful enough to get a sequel, I will personally buy enough tickets that they make one) will have to be too much different from this one and the series to succeed (as in, there won't be the 'who's River?' and 'who's Book?' questions to mystify us and we'll have to deal more with the fall of the alliance and the war with the Reavers - good stories, but not what we're used to). Plus, those mysteries have sustained one of the most successful fanbases in the history of scifi...

Second was the death of Wash. I can tell this is going to be the big issue with the film. Was Wash expendable? Apparently Joss thinks so, since River's apparently a pretty good pilot in addition to being hard as nails. I disagree. I can't see that a crew without Wash will be anything like as balanced (anyone remember 'Can we vote on the whole killing people thing?' Or the very similar remark in a very similar scene in the movie itself?) Particularly now that Zoe's position as the voice of reason for Mal is now called into question... I loved how sudden and (in some ways) meaningless his death was. I just think it should have been Jayne (remember Zoe and Jayne in Objects in Space, 'I don't think she'd hurt anybody' / 'kitchen knife!' / 'Anyone we can't spare'. With River kicking so much ass, they don't need Jayne).

Last niggle; Simon does not kick ass. I have no objection to him fighting. Nor do I object to his rescuing River - though I prefer the series' version that someone else got her out and delivered her to him. I don't even mind him punching Mal in the face near the beginning of the film; that, I thought, worked very well. What I object to is the idea that this nancyish public school boy can actually hold his own in a bare-handed fight with Mal. I am a nancyish public school boy, and I couldn't (yeah, my dark secret revealed...).

Okay, onto the stuff I really did like (I liked it all, but these are the real hilights):

- The fact that Joss didn't compromise on the brutality of the concept - right from the off, the characters are bank-robbers, the Reavers attack and Mal has to surrender some wannabe hero to death.

- The Reaver fleet. While there is something suspicious about Reavers forming anything even vaguely resembling communities (and spaceships), the fleet looked awesome. And the battle? I thought the opening of SW3 was the best a space battle could be on film (and as larger-than-life stuff goes, it kinda is), but Serenity's sense of reality just completely blew me away. I sat there ducking and dodging like a jumpy monkey on caffeine (*firmly denies any rumours that he is a jumpy monkey on caffeine on the grounds that he doesn't like coffee*). And that moment where they first pile out of the cloud? Words cannot express just how impressed I was.

- Kaylee and Simon finally getting together (and the wonderful game of 'spot River' that constitutes the end of *that* shot).

- Mal and Inara. Not so much the phone call, though I did love the gang listening in, but that last scene? 'Good answer' - priceless.

- The Operative. Particularly the 'I'm a monster' line. His self-knowledge and self-acceptance, for me, make him far scarier than even characters like Early and Niska from the series.

- The truth about Reavers. I originally predicted that it was aliens who created the Reavers, but I think I prefer the more disturbing, more terrible revelation presented by the film.

- River kicking ass. Little sisters are always harder than their older brothers (*is an older brother to a much harder little sister*).

- The absence of the shameless backreferencing which spoiled the Star Wars prequels. There was backreferencing - there were even scenes that were more than half copied from the series if you looked carefully - but it wasn't shameless. It wasn't tacky. It wasn't cheap. Suck on that one, Lucas...

And of course, all the usual Whedon stuff - the dialogue, the perfect balance of comedy and drama etc. etc. etc...

Right, I think that covers just about everything in the film in the 'like' category...

I really did love this film. It actually managed to still blow me away after 18 months of waiting. I can find no genuine flaws in it. Congratulations Joss and the gang for making the film Star Wars wished it was. For making the film, indeed, that any film would wish it was in that situation.

Just a thought,

Rik
 
Originally posted by obcooke
Book says is that he doesn't HAVE to tell Mal. True, he does do it with a note of finality. But he doesn't entirely rule out telling him... someday.
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Actually, I did remember it that way, but I thought that since he is never going to tell him now...
Originally posted by obcooke
How about a sequel where Book's story is told in flashbacks?
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I'd be happy for a prequel. I think as Riff_the_Rick says Book was probably too like 'The Operative' to have been a character we would have sympathy for, but something must have made him stop and become a Shepherd. I would just like to know what that something was.
Originally posted by Rik_the_Riff
Firstly, this film answers too many questions.
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I was surprised by all the answers, but I'm not complaining. I still can't get over 'Odyssey 5' and all the time I invested in that for it to just stop. I'm hoping that 'Lost' doesn't finish the same way now.
Originally posted by Rik_the_Riff
Second was the death of Wash.
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I agree with the earlier comment that if someone HAD to die, then they could get along without Wash the easiest (or maybe Jayne) but I LIKED Wash!! And as someone said he did bring some morality to the mix as well as the humour..
Originally posted by Rik_the_Riff
Last niggle; Simon does not kick ass.
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Until you mentioned it I hadn't thought about the change in Simon. It is fairly dramatic. And it would be possible to put it down to the intervening six months on Serenity if it weren't for the rescue flashback. There is no way that the Simon in the Pilot episode could have done that James Bond/Mission Impossible/Lara Croft rescue.
 
Weren't many in my sitting either, but it was 22:00 ;)

Not sure it would appeal so much to those who haven't already seen Firefly. Without the knowledge of how the characters and relationships evolved, you are left with an average film, with better than average story, but too few effects to draw the uneducated masses in.

The start of the film rather suggests that all of the planets are in one single solar system, which Mr Hawkins would observe is absurd. You could not have dozens of planets in a solarsystem with temperate enough conditions for humans to survive, no matter what level of terraforming. At least not without planetry billiards occuring at regular intervals. Always assumed they had found a number of small systems fairly close together?

by Maria
As you mentioned, the exposition at the start was really well done. My own slight problem with it was Simon was doing the rescuing.
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I would agree that Simon's rescue made him look a little out of character with Firefly's early episodes. But perhaps that can be put down to him being in a world he knew and he was desperate. Also he was starting to show more backbone by the end of the TV series, we can only assume that this film is set perhaps a year further on as Shepherd and Inara have both moved on and settled into other things. Though that scenario means River was born on February 29th, as she is still 17.

Overall it was a really nice double episode, rather than a film. As the whole story was more about a defiant gesture against authority and we still haven't found out what they were doing or intended to do with River, there is still plenty of scope for more episodes to come. Which has to be good news?
 
Not much to add, but now I have the DVD and the opportunity to view the deleted scenes, I really like the extended escape of Mal and Inara, especially the part with the grenade.

Also love the bloopers - especially the same scene when he hits his head on the branch - and Zoe saying "We need to... ****" Mal "There's a toilet over there!"
 
I liked the movie. I was just getting into the series when they canned it.
Though I'm dismayed by the prospect of 'rednecks in space', I liked the 'Firefly' concept, and the characters, too.

I like how they finally explained how the Revers (sp?) originated in the film. It also raised a question == "What next?" We're not sure what sort of chaos would be unleashed after the Rever origins were revealed.
 
Hawkshaw_245 said:
It also raised a question == "What next?" We're not sure what sort of chaos would be unleashed after the Reaver origins were revealed.
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I'm not sure that anything has to happen. We would like it to. To make it worth all they went through to get the video broadcast, but the best they can hope for is a small crack in the Alliance's power.

How can I believe that, I hear you ask?

All I would say is, did the People's Republic of China collapse after the Tiananmen Square Massacre?

And did anyone really care what happened in Rwanda, or Cambodia and is now happening in Darfur?

The planet Miranda was a small planet a long way from the central core planets and their political base. It is just those rebel Browncoats stirring up trouble again. It is not our business. It doesn't affect us.
 
Actually I think the most "expendable" character was Zoe (or Book).
Wash was much needed comic relief and probably the most 'normal' of the characters along with Kaylee. He's not some macho streetfighter/gunslinger like Jayne, Mal & Zoe, he's not a highly skilled Doctor like Simon and he's not a glamorous arch-manipulator like Inara.

Zoe on the other hand is much of a muchness with Mal. Both are war veterans and skilled fighters and I just never felt that Zoe's character added as much to the ship as the others. In many ways she was just Mal's lieutenant.

I think you could get just as much angst from Wash without Zoe as with Zoe without Wash, although it does leave the possibility of a classic love triangle between Mal, Inara & Zoe in any potential sequels.
 
Needless to say, I loved the movie. And it works surprisingly well even if you have no knowledge of the series. There were a couple of minor continuity errors from the series, but because of how well that opening sequence was done, they're entirely forgivable. And I loved the Operative as a villain - there was not one point in the film that I wanted him to lose. I didn't want him to win, because that would mean River's death, but equally, I didn't want to see him beaten because he was such a nice person. There's one line that really gets across his character for me - "There's a lot of innocent people in the air being killed right now". There are very few villains who would ever say something like that.
Of course, all the other factors were brilliant, but that goes without saying. Especially the acting - I didn't expect such good performances from a group of pretty much unknown actors. After watching the film I watched the series as soon as possible and became a big fan of that as well. Now I'm hoping for the sequels to Serenity, even if without Wash and Book it'll be very different.

like well choreographed fights and River moved like a song
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Yes - they really managed to use Summer Glau's training as a dancer well to get across an interesting style of fighting which worked really well.
 
I imagine the Alliance government will just find a few flunkies to take the blame for the Reever debacle, fire those people, and continue on with business as usual. That's the way it works in the "real" world, anyway. More's the pity.
 
Always slow to see movies since i don't go to the theaters I finally got a copy of the dvd, It was everything that I expected from Wheden and more. The movie did not disapoint in any way.:)
 
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