Your thoughts on book 6? *warning spoilers inside*

[timdgreat]

Your thoughts on book 6?

well seeing as i have just gotten the book 3 hours ago and am only about 200 pages in i cant tell u what i think of the whole book, but so far i am enjoying it, just wish i could find the power to set it down and read it more slowly but thats isnt gonna happen.:rolly2:

 

[little smaug]

5 and a half hours later - wow. Just... wow. I did not see that coming. Any of it.

I thought it was great, probably on a par with Prisoner of Azkaban. Much more plot development, an insight into Voldemort's earlier years, answers to a lot of questions, and a fair number of real shocks.

Plus, zombies. Everybody loves a book with reanimated corpses.

So, where to begin? There was a fair amount of hormone overload, but they are sixteen, so I guess that can be forgiven. And none of the pairings particularly bother me (well, maybe Filch/Pince, but that might just be me ). Tonks/Lupin is very cute, Harry/Ginny is more along the lines of, "Duh, it's about time!" Ron/Hermione I don't agree with, but they're not actually together yet, so I'll burn that bridge when I come to it.

Anyway, moving away from general shippiness. Scrimgeour is... interesting, for lack of a better word. When he was first introduced, it seemed as though there was actually a competent Minister, finally. But now it seems as though they've just gone from one extreme to the other, from a man who did nothing, to a man who is doing all the wrong things. I wish we'd seen more of him though, I'm not really sure what to make of him.

The same goes for Slughorn. I'm trying to have an opinion towards him - any kind of opinion - but I can't. I don't like him, I don't hate him. He seems to be a very forgettable type of character. I may have to think about him a bit more.

But speaking of, what a surprise to start the book with, that Snape finally got the Defence position! I'm amused by the fact that so many people had theories about the part Snape would play in this book, because of the Potions book on the adult cover. Turns out that there was a connection, just a completely different one to what everyone thought.

I like the idea of Horcruxes, and of Voldemort splitting his soul - it explains how he stayed alive, it explains the diary, and it kind of explains his rapid descent into evil.

I was shocked that Draco turned out to be a Death Eater. I mean, we always knew that he supported Voldemort - but to actually take the mark, and to be doing tasks for Voldemort. Still, he didn't like what he was doing, and for all his bravado in front of his friends, he couldn't kill Dumbledore. I like that we're seeing a different side to Draco - it seems that he may be more complex than most give him credit for.

And so, finally, we get to the ending. Snape turning out to be on Voldemort's side after all, I did not anticipate. And Snape killing Dumbledore! I don't think anyone anticipated that! I keep trying to think of other explanations than the obvious. Like, maybe he had no choice, maybe the Unbreakable Vow works like Imperius. Or maybe Dumbledore gave him orders for such a situation. Maybe it wasn't really Snape. Maybe it wasn't really Dumbledore!

And yet, deep down, I know that it's just as straight-forward as it seems. Snape is evil. Dumbledore is dead. Snape killed him. But I still don't buy that Dumbledore would trust Snape so much if he didn't have a very good reason. That Snape was upset when James and Lily died is not a good enough reason. There has to be more to it than that. So I'm still holding out a tiny little flame of hope, until Rowling says that Dumbledore is definately dead.

You know, it's just occured to me how very dark this series has become. I know how many adults read them, but they are still primarily childrens books, and this is some serious material. And if that was only the 6th book, what is the 7th going to be like? No Dumbledore, probably no Hogwarts, the trio not going back even if it does stay open. I get the feeling that it is going to get a lot darker before the series is over.

 

[timdgreat]

well i would just like to say , WOW, great book, loved it.

i knew dumbledore had to die, msotly cause he was the only wizard Voldermort ever feared, but i didnt expect him to go this way. i mean snape doing the deed, that was a shocker, but wow did it add to the greantness of this book.

im wondering now whos gonna lead the resistance to voldermort, i mean yeah the ministry is fighting back, but they still dont seem to be making any head way against the death eaters.

will malfoy turn on voldermort in book 7, i have some ideas on this theory, but am still forming them into a coherent argument.

im glad that Jk brought in the explanation that voldermort was impossible to kill cause of splitting his soul, it makes a lot more sense now. but who is this RaB person. which side are they on? will they help or fight against voldermort.

wow i have to go reread this again, its too good and i missed out on so much.

oh yeah way to go harry on finally getting together with ginny, now if only ron and hermoine would get a move on:rolly2:

 

[Steffi]

Well brilliant...shocked...great storyline for the next book, with Harry and pals looking for the 4 souls.

And yet, deep down, I know that it's just as straight-forward as it seems. Snape is evil. Dumbledore is dead. Snape killed him. But I still don't buy that Dumbledore would trust Snape so much if he didn't have a very good reason. That Snape was upset when James and Lily died is not a good enough reason. There has to be more to it than that. So I'm still holding out a tiny little flame of hope, until Rowling says that Dumbledore is definately dead.

I do have a theory though, you'll probably think I'm mad.

What if Dumbledore was dying from the poison anyway??
What if Snape knew this??
Why would Dumbledores voice sound like he was pleading??

Is it possible they both knew he was dying a horrble death and maybe Snape put him out of his misery and also to make Voldermort trust him implicitly....do you see where I'm going.

Looking forward to the last one, I hope we don't have to wait too long.

I am now in mournig

 

[timdgreat]

actually steffi that makes perfect sense, snape and dumbledore could have decided that it was for the best,

at least thats the best idea yet that i like for snape killing him:rolly2:

 

[little smaug]

I've just finished re-reading the book, and I have to agree with both of you. Things certainly seem to take a different twist when you know what is going to happen, and can look out for little tell-tale signs. Anyway, this is my new theory:

Dumbledore already suspected, earlier in the book, that he would die at some point. I'm thinking back to the 'argument' that Dumbledore and Snape had (can't remember what chapter it was in for reference, sorry). Harry assumed they were arguing about Draco. I think that Snape had told Dumbledore about the Unbreakable Vow he was forced to take, and I think that Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him, if it came to a choice between himself or Snape.

It's pretty obvious that Dumbledore was going to die anyway, from drinking the liquid in the cave. If Snape had done nothing, then Dumbledore would have died anyway, and Snape would have died from breaking the Unbreakable Vow. This way, rather than dying for nothing, Dumbledore died to protect Snape's position, which is probably the strongest advantage they have.

Thinking back to the death scene, when Snape comes onto the tower, Dumbledore says to him, "Severus... please...". This sounds as though Dumbledore is begging Snape not to kill him. But Dumbledore, begging for his life? Does that really sound like something he would do? I think it is more likely that Dumbledore was pleading with Snape to keep his promise, to do what had to be done for the greater good.

And before delivering the killing curse - 'Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face.' At first glance, it seems as though that 'revulsion and hatred' is directed at Dumbledore. But it could equally be directed at himself, for what he knows must be done.

And the final factor - Snape didn't kill Harry. I know he says that Voldemort wants Harry alive. But he stops the other Death Eater from crucio-ing him, and though he blocks all the curses/hexes Harry throws at him, he doesn't return any of them. And then he has Harry at his mercy - no wand, nobody around to help, and yet he still does nothing. Even if he didn't want to kill him because of Voldemort's orders, he still had the opportunity to give him a few kicks, or even to immobilise him and take him to Voldemort. But he doesn't. In a slightly skewed sense, it still seems as though he is protecting Harry.

 

[timdgreat]

Originally posted by little smaug

And the final factor - Snape didn't kill Harry. I know he says that Voldemort wants Harry alive. But he stops the other Death Eater from crucio-ing him, and though he blocks all the curses/hexes Harry throws at him, he doesn't return any of them. And then he has Harry at his mercy - no wand, nobody around to help, and yet he still does nothing. Even if he didn't want to kill him because of Voldemort's orders, he still had the opportunity to give him a few kicks, or even to immobilise him and take him to Voldemort. But he doesn't. In a slightly skewed sense, it still seems as though he is protecting Harry.

i would remind you little smaug that neither snape or the death eaters or draco knew harry was on the tower roof, Harry was under the invisibility cloak, otherwise he would have done something to stop snape, or at least tried.:rolly2:

 

[little smaug]

No, not on the tower - I meant when Harry chased after Snape onto the grounds.

It was just Harry and Snape, with a couple of scattered Death Eaters - the perfect opportunity to kidnap Harry. But he didn't.

 

[timdgreat]

well i would think that considering the # of people most likely chasing after snape, behind harry, that he wouldnt want to get slowed down that much, not to mention he said that Harry was for the dark lord, which means that voldermort wants to take care of him personally. :rolly2:

 

[Trunks]

a simple Levicorpse spell and he isnt burdened... after a total petrification spell so harry cant do anything...

no..

smaug covered all my points.. i was on teh same thinkings

 

[little smaug]

Yeah, that's what I was going for - petrify, levitate, apparate - quick and easy.

Glad it's not just me, though - you hear so many crackpot theories going around, after a while, you start to wonder if yours is one too! Have you guys heard the one where Dumbledore was actually Wormtail on Polyjuice?

 

[timdgreat]

no thats just screwed up.

hey help me clarify this, i kinda sped through the last bit of the book, well lets say it carried me along very quickly,

do we know why dumbledore drank that stuff that was killing him, didnt he know that the pendant was a fake?:rolly2:

 

[Trunks]

no he didnt.. he drank it because it was the only was to get to the bottom of the potion... to get the pendant and destroy a horcrux.. also he classed harry as being more important to live than himself... prehaps the curse that affected his hand made him weaker as well as him growing old?

 

[little smaug]

Yeah, I don't think there was any way he could have known it wasn't the real horcrux.

But that, of course, begs the question - who is R.A.B.? How did he/she know about the horcrux? And did he/she put the poison in the basin, or did he/she somehow manage to get the locket without emptying the liquid?

Any theories on that one?

 

[timdgreat]

well im guessing that RAB is someone who harry will meet and will help him fight voldermort in the next book, mostly i think this because i just cant see harry as being able to find all the other Horacrux's on his own.

and im sure that there is some way to empty the basin without drinking the liquid, how else would voldermort get to it?:rolly2:

 

[lisasg1]

Hey, what if RAB is 2 people,
like R and B whoever they are? Because Dumbledore himself said that two wizards would be needed to get to the Horcrux anyway?

 

[little smaug]

Well, popular opinion seems to be that it is Regulus Black, but I think that seems a bit too obvious.

As for needing 2 people - Dumbledore has been wrong about things in the past, so maybe there was another way, rather than just drinking the liquid.

Another theory I've heard that I thought was interesting - what if the liquid wasn't simply a poison? Maybe it affects people differently according to their intentions, or affects people how they expect to be affected? After all, Dumbledore thought that the liquid would kill him, and Harry actually told him that it would kill him.

 

[lisasg1]

That is definitely an interesting theory, and there are just so many cool possibilities for that liquid!

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by little smaug
And yet, deep down, I know that it's just as straight-forward as it seems. Snape is evil. Dumbledore is dead. Snape killed him. But I still don't buy that Dumbledore would trust Snape so much if he didn't have a very good reason. That Snape was upset when James and Lily died is not a good enough reason.

I still wonder why Dumbledore trusts Snape so much. The various explanations given are not enough. He dismissed Harry's evidence and ended up dead.

Even so, I'm still not sure that the death was all a plan by Dumbledore and Snape. Dumbledore had no idea that the Death Eaters would come to Hogwarts that evening. he thought he had done everything to protect the school. And so, how could Snape 'know' that Dumbledore was going to die of the poison before they met at the top of the staiirs. Your theory just doesn't work, Harry heard the whole conversation and there was no explanation, just Dumbledore pleading.

I don't think it was the best book. the first half was a little slow and very much same as before. Even her little analogies wern't as good as before - I'm thinking of the Apparition Test for 17 year olds as compared to the UK Driving Test.

These books are getting progressively darker, but then the readers are getting progressively older too. And anyone who reads this has had to get through 1000 pages of 'Goblet of Fire' first.

One thing - How did Harry get permission to go to Hogsmead? With Sirius dead, he would the signature of Uncle Vernon. He didn't expect Dumbledore to come so had nothing ready or packed. Dunbledore never asked for it. Therefore, Harry should have been prevented from going as he was in the earlier years.

Or, was the signature given 'off camera' as it were? Dumbledore's lecture to Vernon about how they had mistreated Harry would have been enough to make him scribble something down.

I'm also interested in who RAB is.

And how did he steal the Horcrux on his own?

Four more yet to be found! Look at what it cost to find the others.

Quite a bit to be covered in the final book. It seems like Hogwarts will be closed though.

Will Harry go it alone, or will he allow the help of his DA friends?

 

[little smaug]

Originally posted by Dave
Even so, I'm still not sure that the death was all a plan by Dumbledore and Snape. Dumbledore had no idea that the Death Eaters would come to Hogwarts that evening. he thought he had done everything to protect the school. And so, how could Snape 'know' that Dumbledore was going to die of the poison before they met at the top of the staiirs. Your theory just doesn't work, Harry heard the whole conversation and there was no explanation, just Dumbledore pleading.

I'm not saying that the whole thing was planned. Of course Dumbledore couldn't have predicted it. But assume Dumbledore knew about the Unbreakable Vow. Then he knew that if a situation arose where Draco tried to kill him and failed, then Snape had to either kill Dumbledore or die. So Dumbledore gave Snape specific orders that, if it came to a choice between killing him or dying, then he was to kill Dumbledore.

Originally posted by Dave
One thing - How did Harry get permission to go to Hogsmead? With Sirius dead, he would the signature of Uncle Vernon. He didn't expect Dumbledore to come so had nothing ready or packed. Dunbledore never asked for it. Therefore, Harry should have been prevented from going as he was in the earlier years.

Maybe they didn't need a seperate form each year, maybe the one with Sirius' signature applied for all of Harry's time at Hogwarts?