4.15: Orpheus

Highlander II

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Episode discussion thread --



Faith snags Angelus; Willow shows to lend a hand and retrieve a soul; Connor tries to get rid of Daddy; and Wes is the Marlboro man? :D
 

Highlander II

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Pretty good episode -- the flashbacks were fun - w/ Angelus nipping at Angel - although some of the fight bits coulda been a little better - it was still nicely done -

Willow comes in to work some mojo and get the soul back where it belongs -- but not-Cordy doesn't like it much! And she even smacks Connor over the head w/ a vase --

If you haven't seen this yet -- watch the hair! LOL!!

And keep an ear out for a familiar tune!

And what's going on with Fred? And did Wes and Gunn notice??

Faith's on her way to Sunny-D now -- she and Will are gonna kick some big baddie butt, I'd guess ---
 

DreamTraveler

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Cordy mentioned something, when Willow was working the mojo to free Angel's soul , about in two more weeks she (Cordy) would be stronger. Do we think that the baby will be born in 2 more weeks. HMM?

I thought it was really cool when the big bad was trying to keep Willow from doing the spell, and Connor (I think) asked Wes if Willow could handle it, and then Willow makes the whole room shake and the lights dim, and Wes was was like " I think she can hold her own." Very cool.
 

obcooke

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Now that's what I'm talking about. One word that shows how IMHO lame Angel has gotten to be - Willow.

What a breath of fresh air! She really shined among the moody, soap-opera-y bunch of mopes that inhabit that show.

The chemistry between Willow and Fred just served to remind me how wrong-wrong-wrong the vibes between Fred and Gunn have always been. I don't recall Fred ever being so happy to see Gunn as she was to see Willow. Which is kinda strange considering that, to our knowledge, they have never met. That must have been some e-mail connection they've developed.

And yeah, Willow getting the BB-Cordy on the ropes was a blast. Even if BB-C claims to be weak now, it was something to think that black-eyed Willow can still bring down the house - or in this case, the hotel. Too bad, the Angel gang didn't get to see a little of the angry, arrogant magic Willow. We haven't seen Willow use that much power without a little of the dark side showing itself.

The parting of Willow and Angel was very underplayed, but then Angel is a quiet guy. But, geez, Willow has saved his soul twice now, you think he could have worked up a little more gratitude.

And, of course, Willow is bringing Faith to Sunnydale-

(Season Seven Buffy stuff - no spoilers)

- remember, we first saw Faith this sesason being attacked by one of those funky knives that the Bringers use.

And besides, if Slayers are in danger who better to call than THE Slayer - after all, Buffy is no longer in the line of succession. In order, for one of the SITs to become Slayer, Faith would have to die. :eek: You don't think? Would they do that?
 

Highlander II

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Only thing I didn't get about Willow - she was BtVS S2-ish - she wasn't like that back in Sunny-D. AtS Willow was chipper and rambly and giddy - it was - odd

And don't gripe too much at the AtS folk - the BtVS gang hasn't been a big ball of sunshine either -

Um - and how bloody stupid is Connor? Does he really think this is all hormones? And that she just shifts wildly from mood to mood? And why isn't he catching on to something when she keeps telling him she needs to know everything that's going on? And she never comes out of her room - please, she's standing - that bolt through the leg can't be bothering her that much.

And there is definitely something up w/ Cordy - b/c if she's still supposed to be half-demon, the sanctuary spell should have worked, but it didn't - she shoved Connor. Hmmmmm

Still diggin' the Marlboro Man -- and I'm gonna call Wes that from now on :D
 

obcooke

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Talk about real late notice.

I just found confirmation that WB will be replaying this episode tonight, Sunday March 23 at 9pm.
 

obcooke

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Okay, some random thoughts at this point.

I haven't managed to connect all the dots but some things seem related. And even though I track Buffy spoilers, none of this is based on advance knowledge.

A "mystical" pregnancy? That sounds familiar - oh, wait a minute - Conner!

Vampires are supposed to be sterile and Darla never did figure out how she could get pregnant. She assumed and we went along with the idea that Angel must be the father. But was he? Even if, somehow, Angel's dormant genes did impregnant Darla's dormant genes, there must have been some hidden (bad) mojo involved.

And Conner was born in the same alley that the Beast appeared in. Isn't it possible that Conner is more related to the Beast or the BB than he is to Angel?

Or is this boy even the original Conner? I thought that Angel was certain that his baby son was totally human - well, Conner sure isn't - he's got some superhuman powers. Has some demon been messing with his atoms?

And another thing - what if that prophacy about "The Father shall kill the Son." wasn't a total fake? What were the key elements that were supposed to appear - blood, fire and earthquake? Well, we've had plenty of blood and it's rained fire... now all we need is for the earth to move.

That could just be me begging for someone- anyone - to kill this irritating punk.

Anyway, I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't a lot more connectivity between this season and last than has been apparent so far.

As for his overwhelming stupidity in the face of conniving Cordy, well, that's not surprising. He's a teen-age boy who probably has never seen a woman for most of his life - of course a sly woman can make a fool of him.

And I'm still pretty sure that this is NOT the real Cordy. It just seems too convenient that when Cordy re-appeared she had amnesia. That is usually a reliable sign that you're dealing with an imposter who has to cover for the fact that she doesn't know the things that she is supposed to know. I can't think of any other reason that that would be included in the story.

And another thing, does it seem likely that a higher being could be plucked from the ether and corrupted? It just doesn't seem right to me. I suspect that we will find out that we are dealing with an imposter and the real Cordy, despite her more-than-human status, will be drawn into the conflict and perhaps lose her status due to becoming involved directly in human affairs.
 

Tabitha

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Okaaay. First off - I really liked this episode, Willow really did bring something fresh to the show, but I agree that she wasn't the Willow we have been seeing recently on Buffy. I do think this makes sense however - she may have to LA to help with Angelus, but it must seem like a bit of a break from the doom, gloom and death going on in Sunnydale. Also, it could be argued that in the presence of people she hasn't seen for several years or not at all, she might subconsciously channel her character from the last time she regularly spent time with Wes and Angel.

Cordelia's pregancy - I think it is symbolic, I doubt if she is really going to have a little baby in the eps to come, or if she does it will quickly grow to adulthood
speculation spoiler - w/ regard to casting
And perhaps turn into Gina Torres?
I thin we've all had our fill of babies in Angel after last season.

Connor/Cordelia and the sanctuary spell is really confusing me now - COnnor gets blasted, but Cordelia doesn't? I had come to the conclusion that this was Cordelia, even if she was being controlled by something else. My reasons for this were basically that it sounded very like Cordy, and I can't imagine someone doing such an amazing impersonation. I thought perhaps whatever was controlling her was only doing so intermittently, but was getting stronger as time went by,and thus explaining why she is becoming less Cordy-like in every episode.
Mind you -this doesn't really explain why whatever IS controlling her was able to be violent, surely it can't be human?

And Connor getting blasted by the Sanctuary spell - well, Angel said he was human, and Wolfram and Hart concurred. Back in season three Lilah had his blood analysed and claimed that it was bog-standard blood, so I don't know how Connor managed to pick up super-powers, but I am pretty certain it is definitely the same person as the baby.

Propehcies, prophecies, prophecies. I have been thinking along the same lines OB-Wan. Sahjhan said that he just made small alterations to the propehcies, that he hadn't forged them wholesale, so I believe that the gang have seemed to have forgotten about them altogether. In fact, not just the S3 propehcies, but also the ones from way back in S1. Remember Shanshu? (OMG - I have only just now 'got' the title of that ep :rolleyes: I am so slow). Anyway, have you noticed how people keep telling Connor he's a champion recently? I have this very niggling feeling that they are talking him up in preparation for Angel being 'humanized', so he can take over for his old man.


And - just as a side note, at the end of Angel S2/Buffy S5 Willow came to LA to tell Angel about Buffy's death. This was just after the Angel gang had got back from Lorne's home dimension, and with Fred in tow, so Fred would have met Willow, albeit briefly.


Right, I have more thoughts, but I have been at this for 15 minutes already, so I'll come back later!
 

Brit Chick

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Oh My GOD - the hair, as soon as I saw that hair I knew we were in the 70's !!

Did anyone else think the fight scene between Angel and Angelus reminded them of Superman 3 with the good/bad superman fight in the breakers yard. All internal conflicty and everything

Yep, Fred definately has something of the Friend of Dorothy about her - she'd make a good team with Willow in someways, but they'd be a bit of braniac pair wouldn't they. Did I hear Willow say something like 'I'm seeing someone' at the end?? If so I guess she picked up the vibe from Fred (although I'm not sure Fred knew she was giving it out!)

Cordy - well weird - I'm now thinking this is not something taking her over part time, well at least its not part time now - she seems to be totally BB but maybe when she gives birth to whatever the hell she has in there we'll get the old Cordy back - we'll see

Please - someone just shoot Connor and put us all out of our misery - the boy is just annoying now

Faith is so cool - beyond cool - she has passed cool a long time ago and its in the distance behind her. If she was after redeeming herself for the bad deeds in the Sunnydale days I'd say she's achieved that, and then some. It'll be interesting to see how she is over on Buffy
 

VAMPette

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Originally posted by Brit Chick
Oh My GOD - the hair, as soon as I saw that hair I knew we were in the 70's !!

LOL - I was not prepared for that - so funny - and also 'Mandy' - apparantly Angel's always been a closet BM fan!

Loved the scenes with Angelus and Faith in Angel's flashback - especially the scene where Angel saves the puppy!!!

Cordy - yeah I kinda have a theory that the big bad in Angel and Buffy is in some way connected to the Angel's family line - that is The Master, Darla, Angel/Angelus, Dru, Spike, Conner and now Cordy's baby - it's obviously going to be the birth of some ultimate evil and I wondered if it was related back to the beginning - that is the Master??? Maybe not...in any case, I wish Cordy would put away her boobs, too much in your face!!

Fred and Willow - em, not sure what that was about - but nice to see Willow dropping in on LA. I'm assuming that Fred and Willow struck up a penpal friendship the last time they met although considering Fred was slightly insane then and Willow had just lost her best friend and had to break the news to the love of her life, it seems a little unlikely. Oh well, poetic license!!
 

Steffi

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Have to agree with everything said so far, great episode.
My son nearly fell off the settee over the puppy incident and MANDY!! brilliant touch.

Wish they could put Conner out of his misery, driving me nuts too.
What's with him??

Can't wait to see Buffys face when Faith turns up.:D
 

Tabitha

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Originally posted by VAMPette

Fred and Willow - em, not sure what that was about - but nice to see Willow dropping in on LA. I'm assuming that Fred and Willow struck up a penpal friendship the last time they met although considering Fred was slightly insane then and Willow had just lost her best friend and had to break the news to the love of her life, it seems a little unlikely. Oh well, poetic license!!
Yeah, it somehow doesn't seem to work. Perhaps if they had been shown as a bit more distant in this episode, it would have made a bit more sense. I can understand why Fred called Willow, even if they didn't know each other very well, but their pally-pallyness just struck a wrong chord.
 

VAMPette

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It would have been more believable if the writers would have had Buffy being suspicious after Angelus' phone call, rang LA to find out what was going on and sent Willow to fix things. Instead the first phonecall wasn't even mentioned in Buffy.
 

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