Jayne Cobb

ray gower

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2001
Messages
3,315
Characters- Jayne

What makes the characters in Firefly tick?

The series finished before it got going, leaving a huge hole in what we know and understand about them. So there must be some good theories about them, so let's have some thoughts?

Let us have a go at Jayne here?
 
Not the sharpest stick in the box, for me Jayne comes across as a money grubbing mercenary, who would sell anybody if there was a resonable amount of money involved. An archetypal Hill-Billy?

He was bought by Mal, and Mal has had to deal with the potential effects of his treason.

He does love his weapons though and a good fight, whether or not winning is on the cards.

Suspect also quite a lonely bloke though?
Prepared to offer his hitherto most favoured possession in trade for a captive wife?
 
Ah, Jayne. Sometimes he seems like a complete idiot, and at other times he’s surprisingly intelligent.

I think deep down he’s just looking to make some sort of attachment with someone. He tried to find that in Kaylee and then when Simon came around he felt threatened because Simon got closer to her than he ever did.

Another interesting relationship is Mal and Jayne’s. I think Jayne has a professional respect for Mal. He sees that Mal has created for himself everything he’s always wanted.
 
As Ray says, its hard to really get into their Characters cos we only got a limited number of eps, but I always thought that Jayne was, from a female point of view, quite straightforward - a mercenary who liked a good fight and pretty much an old fashioned straightforward male chauvanist pig - altho he was OK with Kaylee being the engineer, but that was prolly only cos he wanted to get into her knickers.

Bull in a china shop approach to pretty much most things

Then we saw a couple of flashes where it seemed he might not be all bad, and maybe even the kind of guy you'd want on your side in a pinch - for the brute force if nothing else

Then came the Ep Ariel and we saw the true colours - a man driven by needs for money and revenge and not a little bit of spite I think. He wanted money, was ****ed off with the Doc and River and saw the ideal opportunity of cover all his wants in the one go. Shame he was so stupid not to think ahead that the feds would just use his info to get the fugitives and then more than likely get rid of him.

So......thats me and me barrow's outside..............
 
I think there is more to the character of Jayne than him being a idiot waiting to betray for good money. FOr instance why would a man go by the name Jane? After the Areil incident when River was doing her mind reading thing Jane got all offensive when River said ¨"What name is Jane for a guy anyway?" Maybe something there.
 
Perhaps he was named like the chap in the Johnny Cash song, @A Boy Named Sue'. Dad wanted him to grow thick and tough?
 
Man, was ever a character more interesting than Jayne? Well, yeah, but he aint as 2-dimensional as you guys make out.

I point you in the direction of Jaynestown - where he began to believe in a cause, then felt severe guilt when he realised it was only his stupidity (he also felt pretty remorseful about Ariel - remember the apples in War Stories?) You might have seen my crazy theory about what Joss had planned for the show (it becomes a war against the Reavers, in which Mal has to unite the outer planets because the Alliance is too busy developing weapons - like River - to actually use any). Jayne, I think, fits in as the people's hero, the down-to-earth guy who, once he realises the validity of this particular cause (remember he's terrified of Reavers) will probably do the legwork as far as bringing people onto Mal's side is concerned, much like he rallied the folk of Canton.

Just a thought,

Rik
 
He doesn't have many friends though. In 'Jaynestown' we find that he had dropped the guy he had worked with four years ago rather than drop the money. As his ex-partner said, you just don't do that.

The crew of Serenity is probably the closest thing to family that he has ever had. In 'Serenity' there is a scene with the Fed agent that is cut short when he says that he can't sell out Mal for money. But it is obvious later that he did untie the Fed agent and would allow River to be captured, as long as he didn't have to cross Mal.

This shows that he has a very high regard for Mal. Something must have happened for Mal to earn this respect.
 
He didn't technically untie the fed - he gave him a knife to cut the duct tape with. I think maybe he used to be the @$$hole who chucked his partner out of the ship, but he's starting to get wise now. Maybe

Just a thought,

Rik
 
I think Jayne is supposed to be the good-bad enigma and yeah I could easily see him selling everyone out. If Firefly had lasted I could imagine Jayne as the Big Bad, maybe at the end of Season Two.

It is an untold-story - how Mal became someone who's opinion Jayne cared about.

************************************
Episode 1.10 War Stories ---- SPOILER FOLLOWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*************************************

His unexpected loyalty shows up even better in War Stories, where Jayne tells them that trying to save Mal is a suicide mission, but when they get ready Jayne's there to join them.
 
Jayne as the big bad, maybe at the end of season 2
That's a bit Buffy-ish, isn't it?

I can't see Jayne turning on Mal, for all his bravado - I reckon he's beginning to be something other than a cold, heartless, chauvinistic, rude mercenary.

Just a thought,

Rik
 
Rik_the_Riff said:
That's a bit Buffy-ish, isn't it?

I can't see Jayne turning on Mal, for all his bravado - I reckon he's beginning to be something other than a cold, heartless, chauvinistic, rude mercenary.

Just a thought,

Rik

I can't see Jayne turning on Mal either

***Spoiler***

especially since Ariel, when he sold out Simon and River -and found out that there was no point in treachery.
 
Think it is quite unlikely Jayne would turn on Mal directly, unless given the right incentives e.g. plenty of money and a clean get-a-way.

As it is, even up to and including the film, nobody has really put a better offer on the table, so Jayne follows.

The question is, considering they aren't exactly overflowing with dosh, is Jaynes' price going up or down?
 
The movie left me with the impression that Jayne has changed since the series began--that he's buying into the mission now. He's the one who, according to Joss's screenplay "speaks for them all" when Mal calls on them to act in his "I aim to misbehave" speech. Jayne got more than muscles from pumping iron with Shepherd Book: he got righteous, so now he says that "if you can't do something smart, do something right."

I admit that Jayne washes down that righteous declaration with a swig of what might be alcohol, which could indicate the need to steel himself, but he seems sincere. And he passes the jug to Simon, his erstwhile main critic on the ship, which underscores the feeling that Jayne's seeing himself as part of the group.

And we know he's capable of great love for his biological family (that silly hat he wore so proudly!), so I can believe that he's capable of feeling a kind of love for the Serenity crew.

But Ray's question makes me wonder: what is Jayne's price?

Did he ever want money for money's sake? Or did he just want money for the guns and shelter and womanly companionship that money could buy?

If money was just a means to comfort, then maybe he's getting enough guns and shelter and companionship (at least in "Heart of Gold") to not feel so tempted to betray Mal?

Then again, plot twists involving gray areas of morality are Joss's thing.
 
Jayne. The man they call Jayne. He robbed from the rich and he robbed from the poor. He stabbed people in the back and he gave 'em what for...

On the surface... Jayne is an orc. Brutality and sex and a limited comprehension of most things is all he seems to offer the verse. Oh, he's got some loyalty to his clan... he cherishes his mom's gift and he supports her through brigandry.

But we love him. We love an orc.

Brutality. "Pain is scary." "Tell us where the stuff's at, so I can shoot ya." He is a master. His collection of weapons is impressive. He ability to shoot and brawl are depended upon by Mal. He won't flinch from torture. But his brutality extends beyond mere violence. He is brutal to society. He likes intimidation and mean spirited comments backed up by the threat of intimidation. And he likes crime... He likes obtaining money through the use of his skill set... coercion and violence.

Sex. "I'll be in my bunk." "I could stand to hear some more." "I could get nekkid." "Can I start getting' sexed already?" Jayne's testosterone level is off the charts. He's good to go all the time. But it's highly interesting to note that he does not ever mix sex and brutality. So... he's not actually an orc.

Mental ability. "You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here!" "Well, don't say it!... Oh, well now I know that." "Well, I don't like the idea of someone hearin' what I'm thinkin'." Jayne's a classic thug. He's not dumb, just uneducated... and he's never developed his mind because his muscles could get everything he wanted... sex and money. And yet, his intelligence for crime, escape, fighting, avoiding fighting, betrayal.... i.e. self-survival is extremely high. In a dog, we'd call it instinct...

But Jayne is neither a dog nor an orc...

He's survived the 'verse so far by knowing when to run, fight, quit, join, and switch sides. At the final fight in Serenity, Zoe asked, "Do you really think any of us are going to get through this?" To which Jayne replied, "Well... I might." He'll do what he has to... because that's what he's done his whole life.

It was plain fairly on that it was not a question of if Jayne would turn on Mal, but when. And I was stunned when it was sooner than later. And that led to a chain of events that changed Jayne's outlook.

Jayne knew Mal should have killed him. Jayne finally got caught... and was given a second life.

He started sharing his wealth with the crew. For the rest of humanity, we know belonging to a community means sharing because we care. Jayne had to be surprised that the crew was nicer to him. He also liked the fact that he now had some respect from Simon even if it was based on a lie. I think this taste of community led him to join in the assault on Niska. Jayne started to care when he found out the benefits of sharing. After Simon figured the whole thing out, he healed Jayne before letting Jayne know that he would never turn on him. I know Jayne was part of the crew, but not the community.... while Simon was part of the community, but not really part of the crew. Simon's mercy showed Jayne he could join the community if he wanted.

Also, River's threat impressed Jayne thoroughly.

So, in addition to violence, libido, and ignorance, Jayne had something new to offer the 'verse... gratitude to his community and loyalty to his captain.

On a different note...

I do think that Whedon broke the story when Mal pardoned Jayne. Mal's mind was changed when Jayne said, "Don't tell 'em what I done." It did not seem enough for me... Was Jayne remorseful? Did Jayne mean the Tams or the entire crew? How could Mal know Jayne would not harbor a grudge, but be grateful? Jayne had earned death. He knew it. He'd always knew that someday he might get caught and die a violent death. But Whedon kept Jayne alive and I enjoyed the rest of the story... yet I always think Jayne should have died.
 
Great post. One point I see differently, though I absolutely see your point of view, too:

I do think that Whedon broke the story when Mal pardoned Jayne. Mal's mind was changed when Jayne said, "Don't tell 'em what I done." It did not seem enough for me... Was Jayne remorseful? Did Jayne mean the Tams or the entire crew? How could Mal know Jayne would not harbor a grudge, but be grateful? Jayne had earned death. He knew it. He'd always knew that someday he might get caught and die a violent death. But Whedon kept Jayne alive and I enjoyed the rest of the story... yet I always think Jayne should have died.

He showed shame and conscience - he showed that, on truly believing he was at death's hatch, he had the concept in his head that he had been less than the man he wanted to be, especially in the eyes of those he'd betrayed (meaning he really did care about them but got stupid). So Mal gave him the chance to become that man. And that's equally how he knew Jayne wouldn't harbor a grudge. If Jayne hadn't shown that - if he'd have said or done almost anything else - then Mal would have spaced him. I agree that it doesn't seem like much in terms of a big oration or great action but I think it was enough for Mal to be satisfied with what was going on in Jayne's head and it worked for me.
 
J-Sun, the friend who introduced me to Firefly agrees with you.

I think the most important theme of Firefly is Mal's desire to create a world, a community that allows people to live fully. And in this circumstance, Mal specifically redeems Jayne. He showed mercy beyond any expectation... I get it. I understand Whedon's motivations... I just did not quite think it worked. Maybe that's because I am a very different person from Mal. Maybe I just don't understand Mal enough. But... most likely, I wanted to see more contrition from Jayne at that moment... or even better... to have seen it without the threat of imminent death.

I'll have to watch it again.

Jayne is the one character in most need of a life altering moment/redemption/change of heart. And he got it... I love Jayne.
 

Similar threads


Back
Top