1.03: Man of Iron, Women under Glass

[Dave]

Jeremiah and Kurdy encounter Captain Iron -- a most unlikely hero -- while Erin reluctantly spies on Markus and uncovers a dangerous secret.

 

[Krystal]

Totally love this episode, both stories were great. The Captain Iron was very touching love how Jeremiah reacts at the beginning to Captain Iron when he first know him. And how later, he continues Captain Iron work so the faith the kids have in the heroe don't die. It was very touching. And the story of Markus and Meaghan was totally great, how Erin kept the secret from the others. And all the story involving Meaghan is so interesting.

Spoiler

How she is carrying the virus of the big death in herself and have survive it because it have certain inmunity to it, also it was interesting the reaction of Captain Iron when Jeremiah begin to search for the words Valhalla Sector in his computer of things to find. Very interesting reaction.

Krystal

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Krystal
....it was interesting the reaction of Captain Iron when Jeremiah begin to search for the words Valhalla Sector in his computer of things to find. Very interesting reaction.

Yes, why would that be?

This started off as a much better episode than the pilot. The people were more believable, especially that long-suffering woman who was Captain Iron's sister.

But it didn't go anywhere much. Why had that woman taken so long to find out the truth about her husband? They were living with the threat of the 'bandits' for years (Captain Iron said that they had never come so far South) but they had been in competition for resources and must have been in contact. Yet her husband only shows his cowardly behaviour now.

Where did the boys come from? I can't see them surviving alone with those 'bandits' about. They must have been babies at the time of the 'Big Death', so someone must have looked after them and brought them up.

I would like a much deeper look into this society than we get. These things are possible, but not showing us how looks like they haven't thought about it (which I believe they haven't). Take the lack of animals, for instance, after 10 years the wildlife should have taken over both the cities and the country. I would expect that wild dogs, bears, escaped zoo animals -- all would be a bigger threat than 'bandits'. They would take shelter in the ruins. Yet we see no animals, not even any birds, rats, cats and dogs.

Did the plague wipe them out too?

The story of Meaghan will obviously be a running theme. If she is a carrier of the disease, but immune herself, then there are likely to be other adults who survived too. This makes sense; a disease that wipes out every adult makes no sense epidemiologically.

 

[adamsh]

I was lucky enough to download and watch each episode as they were aired in the USA. Unfortunatly not all your questions are answered in the 1st season, and without giving anything away I will tell you this.... The episodes get better as the season progresses (The last 4 episodes are superb).

I have found I really enjoyed Jeremiah, almost as much as I enjoy Stargate and I am eagerly awaiting the start of season 2.

 

[Dave]

Everyone keeps telling me they get better, so I'll keep watching.

 

[Tabitha]

This certainly was a better episode than what I saw of the pilot. Maybe it is my fondness for superheroes though

I thought the series of "Beware" signs were an excellent visual gag, and skipping to the end, I loved the final shot of Captain Iron's successor - it actually brought a tear to my eye :blush:

Captain Iron was an interesting subplot, but it felt a lot like a device to give us a tiny bit of teaser info about Valhalla Sector than anything else. Although Jeremiah avenged his new friend's death, I thought it seemed a bit strange that they just upped and left at the end - wouldn't you have liked to see the Captain's big sis sent to Thunder Mountain?

posted by Dave
Where did the boys come from? I can't see them surviving alone with those 'bandits' about. They must have been babies at the time of the 'Big Death', so someone must have looked after them and brought them up.

This was something I was wondering, but I think I have it all figured out. The Big Death happened fifteen years ago, right? And it killed anyone over "the age of innocence", to quote the intro. Does this mean anyone who has not yet hit puberty? Or has not lost their virginity? I assume it must be the first, as it is an actual disease, it must be keyed to one's hormones in some way.
We saw flashbacks of Markus running through Thunder Mountain, in that scene he certainly looked about 15, at the very least over 13.
Captain Iron's kiddie friends looked to me to be 11-14 ish, so they could have been born quite soon after the Big Death, after all, women can conceive as early as 12 or 13, and could have passed the 'age of innocence' not long after the Big Death was over.

But this brings up an interesting question - in a population as large as the earth's, wouldn't the continual maturing of children propagate the virus? It would wipe out all the adults, but then wouldn't it just feed on the newly maturing kids? I suppose if it is a very fast acting virus then perhaps not.
Mind you, I have no idea if it is even a virus...

Should we spin off discussion of the Big Death into a separate thread?

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Tabitha
Should we spin off discussion of the Big Death into a separate thread?

Maybe, but I don't know much about Epidemiology. From what I do know Tabitha's comments are correct, a virus or bacteria like this one would not work in the way described. That's why the scenario presented by Terry Nation's "Survivors" is more realistic.

I can't remember where I read it, but I read something discussing the film "Outbreak" and several other films all released about the same time. It said that viruses like Ebola are not a major problem, simply because they are TOO deadly. Everyone is struck down and then dies so quickly that they do not have time to pass it on, so the outbreaks are localized and can be contained.

If you compare Ebola with the Plague, Black Death, AIDS or Flu, the others can and do kill, but they take longer, and this gives plenty of time for people to infect others and propagate the disease. And this gives time for a few individuals to build up immunity.

If the "Big Death" killed children at puberty, and continued to propagate itself among those children reaching puberty, we wouldn't see any adults at all.

If it was fast acting like Ebola, there wouldn't be enough kids around to keep it going. But then maybe that is exactly what did happen?

 

[Tabitha]

Originally posted by Dave


If it was fast acting like Ebola, there wouldn't be enough kids around to keep it going. But then maybe that is exactly what did happen?

That kind of disease is what I was thinking of - but if it was fast acting, then how did it kill ALL the adults? As you said a disease can peter itself out by killing its carriers before they have the chance to infect others, and yet all the adults died (as far as we know).

I suppose it could be something totally different - some kind of engineered virus with a short enough half-life to eventually die out by itself, regardless of opportunities for infection.

And of course, for all we know, it is only the US, or part of it, that is affected. Although 15 years is surely a long time for the rest of the world to keep a quarantine going.

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Tabitha
And of course, for all we know, it is only the US, or part of it, that is affected. Although 15 years is surely a long time for the rest of the world to keep a quarantine going.

That possibility never occurred to me. Wouldn't they have made radio contact, and drop food parcels, and have teams in environmental protection suits to help them?

 

[Krystal]

And of course, for all we know, it is only the US, or part of it, that is affected. Although 15 years is surely a long time for the rest of the world to keep a quarantine going.

As for the virus as I understand for some tips is wordwide spread. Is you remember in the Long Road, the kids at the pub where talking of China is I remember correctly. And you will see other tips as the season progress.

If the "Big Death" killed children at puberty, and continued to propagate itself among those children reaching puberty, we wouldn't see any adults at all.

I think this gets answered as the season progress also. At least explain although I'm not sure is a direct answer.

And as for the reaction of Captain Iron, we will see the answer at the end of Season 1.

Krystal

 

[imported_polymath]

There are a number of ways in which a 100% fatal fast acting virus can spread a whole population.

For example if it is transmitted via a carrier (insects, rats, whatever) it can kill the human host very quickly, then get picked up by the scavengers who will transmit it to other human hosts.

Alternatively, there is a matter of definition of "100% fatal" - does this really mean 100.000000% fatal (required to kill everyone) or does it mean "effectively 100% fatal" which might be say "only" 99.9999% fatal, leaving a small (but sufficient) number of carriers to spread it further.

A very likely idea links in with the issue of why children do not contract and then die of the disease when they become adults. The immune system is considerably different in children, and is in many ways more "flexible". Therefore the children's immune system can cope with the disease, and they therefore become immune (at least for long enough that they can resist it for a while following adulthood), but in the mean time they are the carriers that spread it to all the adults. After all the adults are dead, the children's resistance will gradually decline, so they may become subject to infection and death, but this will be sufficiently later that the disease may no longer be prevalent (which is why a new carrier would be dangerous).

On another subject, of "where have all the animals gone", there are a number of reasons why different animals would not undergo a population explosion and may well decline. Zoo animals and previously domestic animals such as cats & dogs depend largely on human support, even "wild" ones usually get a significant amount of food scavenging human waste, as do rats etc. Following a societal collapse these would initially have an increased amount of such resources, but when this ran out they would first move to increased predation on other animals (hence the depletion of numbers of birds and other "prey", and when this also ran short they would face a dramatic population decrease. The various animal populations would eventually recover and reach a new equilibriem, possibly at a higher level than before, but this could take centuries.

Larger animals (such as bears) do not breed quickly, and would not therefore expand their population. They are also more sensitive to the reduction in prey, and would become natural targets for the remaining humans as food sources (as a single large animal can provide food for a group for weeks, whereas even a single hunter would require several small kills (birds etc) each day to survive. The remaining humans would rapdily deplete every edible animal available, and would leave much less waste for scavengers than our current society does.

 

[Dave]

Thanks for that excellent, enlightening reply.

I don't want to spoil, so I'll just say that if you keep watching you will learn more about the 'Big Death'.