6.11: Prometheus

[skydiver]

I too like finding out about jonas, but i don't know how much more we'll get. It took them two seasons to give sam a father, 3 to say that he's a widower, three to bring up Nick. we still don't know how many kids hammond has, just that he has 2 granddaughters and no idea about jack's family or much beyond sketchy details about his past. We can assume that Teal'c is an only child, but that's never been stated.

They have to walk a fine line...too much jonas and some aren't happy, too little and it's the same.

LOL, sort of one of those situations where you just can't win.

Nothing personal at all against anyone, sometimes when folks are discussing an eps as many are happy that it's jonas light as are unhappy that he's in it at all.

Personally, i have a bad feeling that jonas' character development will be sketchy at best since they only have 22 eps to close a lot of plots and set things up for the movie. Maybe if we get the rumored season 7, they'll have more time

 

[webmouse]

Even a line here and there -- Jonas misses his mom's cooking, someone reminds him of his girlfriend 'back home', something relating what he's doing now to what he once did for the Callonan government -- I'm not asking for much.

 

[skydiver]

I know what you mean Webmouse. I would love it too. For me, I write fic, it's hard to write a character when you don't know much about him.

I'd like to know his favorite color, why he likes bananas, what that ring on his hand means...

They have 11 more eps, maybe we'll get some more

 

[Bota99]

Jacks family was prominently displayed in the original Stargate movie. We know his son died after getting his hands on one of jacks guns and his marriage was in big trouble and from how he acts in the series towards Samantha it is prolly safe to assume they divorced, and he for sure does not live with the wife anymore.

 

[webmouse]

Bearing in mind that the SG1 team has had a feature film for 2 characters and 5 seasons for all we have amassed a lot of personal info on them.

Jack: Besides the trauma of losing his son and the breakup of his marriage, we know that he's a career AF officer with black ops training. With his personal life in chaos, he has focused everything into the SGC and does it well. He'll keep going until he is killed, incapcitated, or chooses to retire.

Sam: Clearly a military brat whose father is a General. She also has a brother, who is married with children. Her mother died in a car accident for which she blamed her father for a long time. We know about the tension with her father over her career path that could only be resolved when he was saved from cancer by becoming a Tok'ra. Like Jack, she's focused her personal life into the SGC.

Daniel: An unappreciated archeological genius and linguistics expert. His parents died in a museum construction accident and he was raised by his grandfather with whom he has had a rocky relationship. His wife was lost to him through Goa'uld, then killed. He continued with the SGC to honor her and to protect her child.

Teal'c: Has the most developed and ongoing family life. We've seen several incidents of his past before becoming First Prime ("Threshold"), his father killed by Chronos, the loss of his wife Dry'ac, seen his son Ryac grow from a child into a young man worthy of being warrior.

And then we come to --

Jonas: Uhh -- well, he's bright, was considered suitable to be advisor to the High Minister, may have a few ethical quirks, is helpful and observant, can be valiant in the moment, he's happy all the time, with an engaging smile and a piece of fruit. He takes lots of notes and memorizes everything put in front of him. -- but none of this is really background. We've been told he graduated from the best schools, told that he is gifted in languages, told --

We've been told everything and shown damn little. How does he handle loss? Is he afraid when a gun is put to his head or that of a teammate? What does he do when he's desperate, lonely, sad? What was his life like before and who did he leave behind?

I'm certain that Corin Nemec has an idea of all this in forming the character, but we are left reading his face devoid of script. The writers owe us and him a lot more if he's to catch up with the rest of SG1.

 

[skoon]

you forgot to mention that Sam was engaged to ...funny enough Jonas (they seem to keep using that name, Jack was Jona in S4) who turned out to be a coock who also was in black ops. The whole attracted to the lunatic frindge thing & all

 

[skoon]

Well, I've finally almost caught up (I'll watch this show tomight), my ex-roomie downloaded S6 & burned them on a CD for me...so it's just mini vision. So far I don't mind Jonas, I don't want to know anything more about him. Let him be the left over bit of the team to fill Danny's shoes & lets focus on the people we do want to know about...Jack & Sam of course I like your summery, Colonel Q & all. I don't know if I'll like this ep or not (I'll tell you in the morning) but it sounds an awful lot like the season finally with SG1 & Apophis hanging out together millions of miles away from home with some replicators.

 

[webmouse]

Originally posted by skoon
So far I don't mind Jonas, I don't want to know anything more about him. Let him be the left over bit of the team to fill Danny's shoes & lets focus on the people we do want to know about.

But Jonas can't really fill any shoes but his own. If he is to be a fully functioning and accepted part of SG1, then we should want to know as much about him as we have wanted to know about the others.

I realize we don't know much about many of the recurring characters, like Major Davis or the secret sex life of Janet Frazier, but Jonas is one of the main characters. It is a team of four -- not a team of three and "that other guy."

At least so far he's been inoffensive (well, not according to everyone, of course). The very least any actor can be is easy on the eyes. :evil:

 

[skoon]

I dunno, I like him just as 'eye candy' "a team of three and that other guy" sounds pretty good to me personally

 

[webmouse]

But that's not realistic to the show nor fair to actor Corin Nemec. Even with only one season, Jonas should be allowed to take his full place on the team -- even if that place is fraught with conflict over how he got there. Some dramatic tension between Jack and Jonas would make sense and give some edge to the dialogue.

While CN is excellent eye-candy, so was MS, but I never expect any actor to serve just my viewing pleasure. I expect actors to act and that each member of the team to have something to do.

In that area the character of Jonas needs development and frankly at this point he's more interesting than the others precisely because he's still a blank slate. I already know a lot about Jack, Sam and Teal'c -- don't think there's much more to say since they've had lots of stories.

If I have to live without Daniel, then give me something novel. Jonas represents a chance for fresh stories about a new character.

 

[oniell obsessed]

Yea, I agree with all that Jonas stuff but I was wondering, remember when Jack opened the door on the ship that lead Col. Simmions out into space? Well wouldn't Jack and tealc die to the freezing temps of space? Or just be sucked out? Or not being able to breathe because all the air got sucked out of the room?

One more thing- The cliffhanger had NOTHING to do withh the ep. in the first place! It was so Dumb!

~*shaunte*~

 

[webmouse]

Sometimes in Science Fiction the fiction gets ahead of the science.

In those instances it is best breathe deeply and to chant the mantra "entertainment value . . . entertainment value . . . entertainment value . . . "

 

[skydiver]

Originally posted by oniell obsessed
Yea, I agree with all that Jonas stuff but I was wondering, remember when Jack opened the door on the ship that lead Col. Simmions out into space? Well wouldn't Jack and tealc die to the freezing temps of space? Or just be sucked out? Or not being able to breathe because all the air got sucked out of the room?

One more thing- The cliffhanger had NOTHING to do withh the ep. in the first place! It was so Dumb!

~*shaunte*~

actually people can survive for limited times in a vacuum. Think of what they did to...opening your front door during a blizzard. If it's just for a minute or so, your heating system can replace the heat lost, and in the case of space, the oxygen.'

in all reality, when simmons went space walking, it probably took him about 4-10 minutes to 'die' as his brain starved from lack of oxygen.

Just like hanging or electrocution, spacing isn't an immediate death

 

[oniell obsessed]

Yea, but wouldn't they die instantly or really quick cause of the WAY below zero temps?
oh yea, I don't do to well with science.

Later gaters,
shaunte

 

[skydiver]

they would asphixiate before they froze. Since brain damage starts at 4 minutes or so....theoretically they could survive up to 4 minutes.
Now there is one fact that the show glosses over. (pretty much every sci-fi show glosses over...just like they do on the 'no sound in space' bit) There would be some skin damage. Some capillaries near the skin would burst and there would be a slight frost bite issue. That would be for exposed skin. Covered skin can hold out a bit longer.

How jack and teal'c were exposed....there wouldn't be any damage unless they'd gotten sucked out as well. The vacuum of space was pulling the ship's atmosphere around them, basically protecting them.

 

[CynVision]

Okay, I'll jump in with some armchair science (please bear with my spelling errors.) What could/should have been the real effect of being near an airlock open to space is that they would pass out. People loose function in low air pressure and oxygen. The body may still "live" but your brain goes into an unconsious state inorder to preserve it from low resources. Just like in airplanes that loose cabin pressure and you have the yellow masks. That safety measure isn't the fix to the situation, the pilot has to take the plane down to pressurized, warm, and oxygeninated air for everyone to live. In Enemies and Tangent we learned that Teal'c has a higher tolerance to low pressure and low oxygen. So... he'd be the one to function better in that situation. But about the living for 4-10 minutes? I think you could argue for biological "living" and cell process in the deepest parts of the body core, but the brain and extremities would be very suspectiable to the "cold" of vacuum right away. Also the lack of pressure allows gasses to boil out of the blood so you're very much toast in short order. Anneurisms, frostbite/freezing tissues, apoxia.

I recall a scene in the movie Event Horizion that vividly tried to subject a member of the crew to a brief EVA without a suit. Bleeding from eyes, all the soft tissues of the nose, lungs and throat. Convulsions which I would assume would be from blood loss to the brain due to air bubbles. It's the main beef I had with the ep Tangent that Jack and Teal'c were uninjured by their first little encounter with space. But now find it very funny that they're making it a habit in the series. I like the "entertainment value" chant. Stargate producers don't have the inclination, time or money to show anything like the Event Horizion movie did. We get to imagine what happened as much or as little as we like.

 

[oniell obsessed]

okay, whatever. I am not you total science whiz here(lol) so please bare with my stupidity.

Shaunte

 

[webmouse]

Entertainment Value

I think the major point of science fiction is to give us stories -- even if "out of this world" -- that are entertaining. To fulfill that they must not break one of those ancient rules of theatre: "the willing suspension of disbelief." And that's tricky. What we are willing to suspend just to enjoy the story without becoming disturbed by some patent absurdity.

If you look at early SciFi, the air was breathable everywhere in space, even in the 1910 film of "Going to the Moon". The audience accepted green vamps from Venus, little green men from Mars (what is is about the colour green), and smoking aboard space ships by tough handsome captains whose lady crewmates seemed to serve no purpose but to fill out a very tight space suit.

Although physics has said that warp drive is not possible, we have accepted it as part of the Star Trek universe, a necessity of the future to get around the vasty voids of space for a new adventure each week. Most of the audience has some vague idea of wormhole theory which we accept as part of making Stargate (and Farscape, too) viable.

Sometime the writers over-reach. My personal favorite was the Ocampa on Star Treik Voyager. Ocampa only live nine years and a later ep established that each female had only one child in her short lifetime. As miserable as I am at math, I could crunch the numbers -- the Ocampa race becomes half its size in each generation, so how could such a race evolve and how long could such a race survive? Biology dictates that short-lived species (such as mice ) have litters of young and fairly often precisely because it is the only way to keep the species alive. The writers really slipped up on the Ocampa.

We've become more educated with discoveries of our own solar systems (sorry, no gorgeous dames on Venus) and more sophistocated in what it takes for us to willingly suspend our disbelief. That's one of the things that makes boards like ASciFi.com and others so interesting -- the passionate arguments about how a totally fictitious alien technology or biology works. We really want to believe. We want it to work and to make sense.

Unfortunately though, we have to remember that we are dealing with fiction, made up by writers who put in lines and actions that serve the moment -- and not always with clarity about what they have presented to us before or will present to us later. If they leave things ambiguous it is, in fact, good writing -- not getting painted into a corner when a later situation presents a need for an opposite conclusion.

And then we must chant the mantra . . .
entertainment value...entertainment value...entertainment value...

 

[skoon]

OK finally watched it, hmmm. Well, I must say it did disturb me that Jack even thought to open the hatch & shouldn't he have been worried about sucking Teal'c out the door too? I must say though that I has happy to see Colonel Q sucked out, I cheered!

 

[skydiver]

Re: Entertainment Value

Originally posted by webmouse

And then we must chant the mantra . . .
entertainment value...entertainment value...entertainment value...

The 'sound in space' also falls into that category. And every planet's sun being yellow, the grass green, having the same gravity as Earth...and on and on and on