Thought invasion strategy, Gate Gliders and other yet unseen but usefull units

[Ko'or Oragahn]

Thoughts about invasion strategy, Gate Gliders and other yet unseen but usefull units

Used in Into The Fire, the Gate Glider is still a very rare vessel, despite its usefull feature.

First, before we get to the first stage of this message, I have to ask why a Gate Glider does only have one heavy staff ?

If this ship couldn't carry two of these weapons, why couldn't it, at least, carry lighter staff weapons ?

Ok, that was all.

Now, why a Gate Glider is so rare is because it requires a lot of skill to pilot it through the gate and accomplish the "threading the needle" move.

Ok, but then, I've been thinking of systems that would let these ships be sent through the doors automatically.

Here are the different possibilities :

1. First, in case of a gate which is settled on a planet. An automatic pilot would perform the move for the pilots.
   
   Even more, there could be guiding devices placed of the gate to help the onboard computer to determine the right trajectory.
   
   Strangely, the goa'uld don't seem to be found of artificial intelligence, except when it comes to nanocytes, which is in fact a highly advanced form of AI. At least, one of the various forms of AI.
   
   So I don't really know how to take this possibility, as it may sound possible, be is unlikely to be applied.
   
   Oh, well, who knows.
   
   Anyway, it seems that even with a computer, it's very very difficult to execute this move.
   
2. Same as before, but more in tune with what we already know from the goa'uld.
   
   Then, we have to remember things like Battlestar Galactica or the principe of a rail gun.
   
   Yep, you got it. Why don't they use rails ?
   
   They could use an unit, let's call it Gate Glider Launching Ramp (GGLR), which would be able to fly, then land in front of the gate, deploy and extend its rails and clip to the gate.
   A GGLR could be carried in the goa'uld ships.
   
   Its should be fairly long but very narrow.
   
   Seen from above, it could look like an ankh when deployed or undeployed (optional ).
   Inside the oval buckle would be a rotating platform where the Gate Glider would be stored and also propelled.
   When deployed, a GGLR would create a guiding tunnel made of two parallel and opposed curved rails, a right one and a left one.
   
   The GGLR could carry only one Gate Glider, and be also used as a landing ramp to recover the ship.
   
   The GGLR could also be able to go through a gate, but only if it doesn't carry a Gate Glider.
   
   This way, with two GGLR presented on each side of a wormhole could exchange their respective Gate Glider without any difficulties.
   
3. For the last case, the stargate is inside a ship. This is the most simple case, since the a guiding ramp could be manoeuvered near the gate (this implies that the gate should be near the gliders hangar).
   

And now, if they can't use Gate Gliders, why don't they use at least hoovering tanks or even hoovering bikes ?

 

[Tabitha]

I think the picture you have in the post is of a ship that Bra'tac had hidden on Chulak. I am pretty sure it was just an older model of regular glider, and was not a "gate glider" specially designed for the purpose shown.

Bra'tac says "They do not build them as they once did", or something to that effect.

Or am I missing your point?

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

You're not totally wrong. This is indeed an old model, but it is able to pass a gate. So that's why it's called a Gate Glider.

You can see on the pic that the shape of the ship matches the circular shape of the gate.

 

[Tabitha]

I am not meaning to be snippy or anything, but who called it a gate glider? I don't remember anyone calling it that on the show.
Or are you just using that terminology because it is easy?

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

As far as I can remember, this name is never pronounced in the series.
I just do what people cleverly did when improvizing a distinct name for this ship.
I mean, if I had to find a name, I couldn't have found a better one than Gate Glider.

Yum, now, could we go back to the main subject please ?

I don't know if it's me, but this forum seems pretty dead now.

 

[PTeppic]

Yup - forum seems dead to me too.

As for the glider (which I amongst others am guilty of using/creating the name for), it may come down to technology?

They seem to be very good at building little shippy things, including that nippy technology that causes the problems in "Tangent", but they can't really do anything with the gates/rings - the stuff is too advanced and they simply stole/borrowed it.

How much do we know about how the "gate glider" works - do we assume the gate is dialled manually by the DHD by the pilot, who then jumps in, before having to fly into a VERY tight hole, or is there some sort of DHD in the cockpit? Bra'tac just seemed to press one button in "Into the Fire".

And, I suppose, WHY use them at all? The use of a gate glider is dramatic, but pretty limited - blasting your a$$ through the gate firing, like in the episode. But, since Jaffa lives are basically free/cheap, most Goa'uld will be happy to just pour Jaffa through anyway. For any assault requiring more fire-power, a whole squadron of normal gliders would be more effective, as launched from an ha'tak, which has its own powerful laser cannons as well. And as you said, it takes a really skilled pilot - who are few and far between, since Jaffa are so easily killed.

NB. Your rail ideas would seem to work fine, and fit into the Goa'uld style - they do have those hanger things in the glider bay for normal gliders. But wouldn't that remove the skill required to fly?

Possibly answering your question by turning it round to suggest why they stopped using them, but something to think about.

 

[shazstar]

it is a bit dead. Pteppic I have been meaning to post a response your last theory in the poo uses thread...but unfortunetly real life caught up to me and now I have forgotten what I was going to say...it was a long post! So I'll write it all out and post it soon.

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

Well, the unique advantage of the Gate Glider is to be able to send flying assault units through a gate without needing to wait to have a Ha'Tak in the place. This can be great for surprise attack and save you time, mostly if you know the coordinates of a gate and that you don't want to have your fleet being spotted by sensors if you come out from hyperspace near the .

Just imagine. Example of a quick n' flash assault :

Gate dialed and opened, four Gate Gliders sent through by the GGLR, they come out, zim zam boom kaboom, mission accomplished. Finally the GGLR sent through the gate to drive the gliders back to home.

More, that doesn't tell us why we don't see mobile ground units for the patrols, like hoovering tanks or bikes.

 

[PTeppic]

Thinking out loud:
a) the gate gliders (like most of their technology) is stolen, and they only stole a few, and have not been able to copy it
b) the limitations given above are too big in "reality" for the Goa'uld i.e. the Goa;uld really are so arrogant etc.
c) we only see a small portion, so they ARE used in other places
d) they are most effective against an armed enemy (otherwise its overkill) and anyone armed could have blocked the gate (like an iris) and that is an expensive waste (and Jaffa aren't!)

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

a) the gate gliders (like most of their technology) is stolen, and they only stole a few, and have not been able to copy it.

Who has stolen what ? From what I see, a Gate Glider is only an old model of gliders that is shaped in a way that it can go through a stargate.

b) the limitations given above are too big in "reality" for the Goa'uld i.e. the Goa;uld really are so arrogant etc.

I don't think so. There are no limitations when it comes to technology, especially if you take all the new devices and ships added in the series.

c) we only see a small portion, so they ARE used in other places

Err... proof ?

d) they are most effective against an armed enemy (otherwise its overkill)...

That's not a problem. Goa'uld don't hesitate to send death gliders on cities full of slaves.

... and anyone armed could have blocked the gate (like an iris) and that is an expensive waste (and Jaffa aren't!)

There are many gates that the Goa'uld could attack which aren't protected because of the treaty (for example).

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

Plus, as I said, there are great advantages to be able to send gliders from a Goa'uld without having to make it travel towards the planet where the gliders are about to be sent.

Plus, the Goa'uls could use long and thin flying troop transport that could also be sent through a gate.

The only thing to do would be to send a GGLR to the other gate in order to help the gliders and the troop transports to come back to the ship.

And if you still think that it's a bit dangerous to have a gate leading straight into a ship, you would just have to put a shield to protect and restrict the use of the other gate, the located on the planet where your troops are sent.

Plus, there are big economical and militaristic advantages to be able to use the gates as invasion doors.

People could be afraid to let their own gates dialable and definitively shut them.
They may put protection devices (like an iris), but there's always a risk to have the signal or recognition being faked by the ennemy and used to invade a planet or just send a bomb through the gate.

If stargates start to represent a strong menace, you will be able to apply a blocus, or you will have to the possibility to cut resources routes (remember the Aschen who used a gate to send their harvestings) and isolate complete worlds.

 

[PTeppic]

In reply to your first, they were just lateral ideas, not necessarily my view or in any way supportable, so I don't disagree with your responses. Except "c" - we didn't know about Zatarc technology until S4 - but it was there the whole time. Ditto everything else we don't see until series 4, 5 or 6 for the first time. Just because we haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Hence the scope for all those terrific fanfic writers. Oh, and "d" - aerial bombardment by a couple of death gliders is a pretty slow method for actually doing much damage, it is more the terror aspect and control of the slave population. Anyone who can actually fight back (e.g. Tollana) gets a much bigger fleet of gliders to attack it. But even that is quite a slow way of causing damage to buildings and people except after a few dozens of passes.

BUT, and here is the big part: we have SEEN the way the Goa'uld attack, several times. They send people through the gate, and they send Gliders from orbiting Ha'tak. Seems to be a pattern. I would agree with you - apart from the risk of being smashed into an iris, the purely military advantage of the gate glider is quite high. But perhaps not if you are sending an Ha'tak anyway. I think for this one you need to write to Apophis...

And "Aschen" - I haven't seen that episode yet.:blush:

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

More, I wonder why they never used planet scale bombs enhanced with naquada or naquadria and sent them through a gate.

Now, if we stil have to be able to wipe out a city without really destroying the planets, Gate Bombers (a smaller variant of the Al-Kesh) with enhanced bombs would do the job very well, without needing to send a Ha'Tak.

About the (c) point, somehow, the Gate Glider seems so usefull that if they were still used, we would know it.

And "Aschen" - I haven't seen that episode yet.

Err, in fact, I was refering to this episode where we saw the Aschens for the last time in season 6. In case you didn't see it, I won't spoil you more than that, but you will understand what I mean.

Mmmh... finally, I think I'd better write to Anubis.

 

[PTeppic]

It appears that the Goa'uld can't create "bombs" using their energy weapon technology. They use blasts and really big blasts, but nothing that sort of drops, sits there (or not) and then bang. But using the same energy technology. Is this a weakness?

Series 6 - alas I am in the middle of s5 (3 short of Wormhole Extreme), so don't even know Anubis yet.

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

Damn, I meant season 5, not six. Err.. sorry.

 

[PTeppic]

Ah yes - have now seen it: season 5's "2001" (for anyone else following this).

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

That's it !

 

[Svarog]

Why would the gate glider technology be any different from normal death glider technology. If anything it has to be simpler. It wouldn't need space capabilities, only getting back to an orbiting Hat'tak. If you need to aim the glider at a gate manually (an act requiring great skill), then it obviously doesn't have any extras to aim it at the gate.

Another thing why call them death gliders, why not simply gliders, i think this is a good reason why.

 

[PTeppic]

a) because it may have to incorporate some DHD technology [this part is unclear in the episode]

b) I think the locals call them death gliders, or possibly even Teal'c, in a very early episode. I would guess because they are scary to a primitive people and bring death from above - i.e. they only appear in malicious duties

 

[Svarog]

There's quite a popular theory floating around about Apophis having some kind of hand-remote control that reactivates the gate (from COTG, after he comes and leaves) So they must have that DHD technology, even if Apophis's hand device is advanced surely they can put a bigger one somewhere in that ship.