Harcesis and the Tok'ra

System Lord Gypsy

What is an Oprah?????
Jun 4, 2001
Was mopping the kitchen floor yesterday and I got to thinking. We know childbirth is possible with a symbiont as shown by the child born to Apophis and Amonet and we know that child, the harcesis is born with all the knowledge of the Goa'uld so it occured to me, what would happen if 2 of the Tok'ra had a child. It's possible and would it not then be born with all the knowledge of the Tok'ra.
Now I know there are issues like the Tok'ra wouldn't want the Goa'uld getting their hands on the child but the same can be said for the harcesis which Apophis thought was worth the risk.
The Tok'ra allow hosts to choose so surely a child with all their knowledge would know what a worthy cause they were fighting for and greatfully sign on the dotted line when the time came. Think of what a weapon that would be against the Goa'uld.
Worth the writers thinking about don't you think?

What do you mean by "sign on the dotted line"? Become a host?

It's an interesting idea, and it certainly would solve the tok'ra's problem of no growth... but there's got to be a reason. Or maybe the writers just haven't thought of it yet.

I think you were on the right track with the risk factor. What was Appophis' reason for allowing a Harcesis anyway? Did he have a good reason or did he just feel like it?
I think the Tok'ra know how vulnerable they are if a child with the knowledge of the Tok'ra would be in the hands of a Goa'uld, and Appophis simply didn't care maybe because he thought he was to superior.

~Shu Hunter
:upto: stargate fan{atic}
I did mean become a host. yes.
The reason for the Harcesis was because Apophis was going to use him as the ultimate host which in my opinion would far outway the risk. I Can see the side where a tok'ra harcesis would be vulnerable and therefore the Tok'ra themselves vulnerable but they always seem to be going undercover which is what tends to lead to them having to change world so often but I feel the benefits of a Tok'ra harcesis would far outweigh the risks. It could even be brought up on earth to lessen the risk to the Tok'ra.

You have a very good idea. I hope a writer picks up on this.

~Shu Hunter
:upto: stargate fan{atic}
Tok'ra Harcessis

Originally posted by shu_hunter
You have a very good idea. I hope a writer picks up on this.
~Shu Hunter
:upto: stargate fan{atic}

Thinking about it even as I type. With BC's okay, of course...

Writers and writers

My reply was aimed at 'writers' [small w - those who do it for fun], not 'Writers' [big W - those who get paid for it].

You can't submit a story idea to a script writer for a show without going through an agent bacause if they accept it, the production company has to pay you for it to avoid legal problems. 'Gate doesn't accept non-agent story lines, script treatments, etc.

I meant us 'writers' [small w] who write fan fic and do it just for fun. And as a 'writer' [small w] if I get a good story idea from someone, I always ask permission before using it, just in case it's something they have in the works.

Sorry I didn't make much sense before.

Rowan <hopefully coming out in about 3 zines at MediaWest. it's been a slow writing year for me...
Well, any fan fic writers are more than welcome to use my idea. All I ask in return is the slightest credit, somewhere. Basically just a thank you for the idea.

Fic credit

Not a problem. ;) To make sure I get it right, I'll do a screen cap of your comments.

Thanks for the ok.

I think the problem with Gypsy's idea (if any) is that if such a child was born, he would need to "forget" as Daniel Jackson's child had. If we tink about the Tok'ra very carefully, we would remember that the Tok'ra have killed many people, and they basically sabotage the Goa'uld.

"The Tok'ra allow hosts to choose so surely a child with all their knowledge would know what a worthy cause they were fighting for and greatfully sign on the dotted line when the time came."

Basically, the Tok'ra are rebels. This Tok'ra child may not see it as a worthy cause. The risk of him/her attempting to get away from the Tok'ra "terrorists" is too great.
And could the same not be said for the Harcesis himself but Apophis still though it was worth the risk. The Tok'ra may well feel it isn't worth the risk which may be why it hasn't happened with them but on the other hand they may decide the gain outweighs the possible loss. He would not need to forget at all, if the Tok'ra wanted to give him the choice of being a host and they would give him the choice, being who they are. If after that he declined then he may choose to forget. The Tok'ra are after all about free will, To an extent. When SG-1 first met the Tok'ra they were kept as prisoners because of the security risk but there are ways around that, for example if the Tok'ra child was sent to Kheb he would possibly be made to forget as was the Harcesis. If he did not think it was a worthy cause as Tiberius has suggested, the same could be applied but it's all up to the writer who uses the idea.

The potentials

There are many different ways to look at the potential of the Tok'ra creating an Harcesis child. For all we know, they may already have. It may be one of those little pieces of info they haven't shared.

Now... from here on out, for those who may not have access to season 5, I'm confining myself to S4 and before concepts.

Now we have as canon that the Tok'ra do not always share, or have shared, their entire purposes, motives and/or history with us. I can see the possibilities of them having had a Harcesis in their history and the consiquences of that merging: with or without a symbiote. Of perhaps, after Shau'ri's child, they want to have one of their own to act as a repository for thier history.

Just becasue we don't know of one now doesn't mean we should consider the idea inappropriate. The Tok'ra don't follow the rules of the Tauri *or* the Goa'uld. They are an enigma unto themselves.

Gypsy, Apophis is not exactly the sanest person around. His reasoning was that if he had no heir, another System Lord would take over his property. The Tok'ra have no such reason, therefore they do not need such a risky child.
Tiberius, How about the fact that they could be wiped out at any time. If they have someone in hiding that can take over and a symbiont in stasis for implantation kept with him/her they don't have that worry any more. THey will always have someone to recruit more people to their cause. If the threat of being wiped out and having no more Tok'ra to fight the system lords wouldn't be enough for them, what would. the Tok'ra seem a bit to selfish to think, we'll there is the Asgard and Tau'ri. They would want themselves to survive too.

Well, I enjoyed it, and I can't wait to see then end result of it actually written into a fan fic. Would be well worth reading in my opinion.


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