Were any details ever given of Jack's military background? Was he ever rated aircrew, or possibly in a Special Tactics squadron? Most Air Force officers that lead ground teams would most likely be Pararescue, Combat Control, or Security Forces- related.
Jack's military background
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Rowan
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Jack's history
Nope, nothing in canon. We fan fic writer's have been making it up as we go.
Now, I have my own opinions based on my own and my husband's military backgrounds [he's the 'Jump-Out-Of-Planes, Greer-Hat-Eat-Snakes-in-the-Boonies, Sky-God'; I'm the 'Leg Medic'] and that of folks we know, but , as I said, we wing it alot.
Nope, nothing in canon. We fan fic writer's have been making it up as we go.
Now, I have my own opinions based on my own and my husband's military backgrounds [he's the 'Jump-Out-Of-Planes, Greer-Hat-Eat-Snakes-in-the-Boonies, Sky-God'; I'm the 'Leg Medic'] and that of folks we know, but , as I said, we wing it alot.
Other than saying he was in Special Operations... there is really nothing much.... But then as Jack said if I wrote a book and you read it, I would have to shoot you... so that really puts a small stop to wondering about his past.... The writers will say Special Ops and get around almost everything...
spookypumpkin
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Re: Jack's history
the wot??!?!?!?
the wot??!?!?!?
Rowan
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Translation
My husband was Airborne Infantry and then went Special Forces and is airborne qualified. ['Sky-God' and 'Green-Hat-Snake-Eater']. He spent most of his service time in Special Operations units. He is *not* a 'Leg'.
A non-airborne qualified person is referred to as a 'Leg' becasue they have to walk in and out to a combat zone, not just jump in. I spent most of my time in medical units, including Desert Shield / Desert Storm forward enough into the 'combat zone' to be awarded my 'Combat Medical Badge'.
I am the 'Leg-Medic' becasue I have not been qualified by the US Army to jump. At least not officially or anywhere in my records.
My husband was Airborne Infantry and then went Special Forces and is airborne qualified. ['Sky-God' and 'Green-Hat-Snake-Eater']. He spent most of his service time in Special Operations units. He is *not* a 'Leg'.
A non-airborne qualified person is referred to as a 'Leg' becasue they have to walk in and out to a combat zone, not just jump in. I spent most of my time in medical units, including Desert Shield / Desert Storm forward enough into the 'combat zone' to be awarded my 'Combat Medical Badge'.
I am the 'Leg-Medic' becasue I have not been qualified by the US Army to jump. At least not officially or anywhere in my records.
CynVision
CO, RDA's Leather Brigade
ROFLBO! You know they might make a parting shot end of season six, tell us something just like that. Some truth that would be stranger than fiction, you know?
like eveyone has said, nothing really canon, other than missions into russia or russia areas (gamekeeper) which is his special forces. and he's a paratrooper or whatever the official term is.
me, i've got this silly idea....there was a special on pbs last weekend on air force one and they menioned the guy that carries ''the football' a briefcase with all the codes to launch wwIII...now given that jack has said 'air force one and i go way back' i've had this image of him pulling that duty at some point in time. i don't know why i just do.
playing around in washington for a while certainly would account for his contacts, that and 20+ years in the service.
i don't think jack can fly, my only rationale for that, he doesn't wear wings. i certainly could be wrong but i thought once you earned em, you kept em. even if you technicaly aren't qualified to fly you are still a pilot and can wear your winge. jack doesn't.
this is all taken from
http://www.trickster.org/arduinna/sg1refmain.html
which is taken from the show unless stated as fanon.
its a great research page
USAF 66-789-7876-324
Has to have been in the AF for at least 18-19 years to make full colonel. (Joined in 1975, which puts him at as much as 24 years of service as of 1999, although probably 22-23 years because of his temporary retirements. As of Fair Game is wearing an AF Longevity medal with, apparently, three bronze clusters. This can't be right. The medal is for four years of service; each cluster represents an additional awarding. This would mean he's been in in the AF for at least 16 years, but less than 20, as of 1999.)
Has parachuted hundreds of times (Watergate) (is a master-level parachutist; see his full set of medals)
Joined AF at 18 (according to MGM press kit info): "When he joined the Air Force at 18 years of age, O'Neill proved himself to be an exceptional and gifted airman. Assigned to a special training program for covert operations/infiltration, he was trained in the skills of wilderness survival, special weapons and tactics, assassination, demolition, chemical weapons, the manufacture and detonation of explosives, and is a field expedience specialist."
Has resigned twice so far: once after Charlie died, again after returning from Abydos the first time. To have retired (with pension?), would have had to be in the military for at least 20 years already; if he joined at 18, he couldn't retire before 38 (which works out about perfectly, if he's 40 in first season -- which was just over a year from the first mission, which was shortly after Charlie died). Presumably could resign at any time, though.
Will be facing mandatory retirement from active duty after completing 30 years Total Active Federal Commissioned Service. Don't know how long he's been commissioned (although he was a captain as of 1982). Factor in breaks for retirement, he could have 10-15 years left. (retirement info, etc., from the Colonels' Information Handbook)
Recalled from retirement to lead the first mission to Abydos. (Stargate the movie) Retired again on his return, and was recalled again more than a year later to answer questions about the first mission and eventually to command SG-1, the SGC's flagship team.
Has served as official AF technical consultant to a tv show. (Wormhole X-Treme)
Pre-SGC Missions:
1982: Operation East Fly was a mission to retrieve a Russian agent named Boris from a house in East Germany. Members of the team included Captain O'Neill and Captain Kawalsky, under the command of Colonel John Michaels who was killed in action by snipers. (Gamekeeper)
Fanon has Jack serving in Viet Nam. This is impossible. Jack didn't turn 18 until 1975 (canonically born in 1957--Brief Candle), which was the year that all US troops were finally pulled out of Viet Nam. Even if he'd lied about his age to get in younger, we weren't still sending troops to 'Nam at that point. The "proof" given for this fanon is that Jack wears at least one Viet Nam medal. But, given the aired canon on Jack's age, this is simply a mistake. The two Viet Nam medals given were both given only up to 1973 -- Jack would have been 16 in 1973, and certainly couldn't have served in action long enough to have earned the medals--he would have to have joined when he was fifteen. (For specifics on the medals Jack appears to be wearing, see the Air Force descriptions: Vietnam Service and Republic of Vietnam.) Since prop canon is only valid in the absence of aired canon, this basically doesn't count. (Moreover, a closer look at the medals Jack and Sam are wearing during her promotion (Fair Game, third season, 1999) shows that she's not wearing the Air Medal -- which she earned a year earlier (Secrets, second season, 1998). So I'm looking at these medals as a guide, but not cast in stone.)
and this page has all the medals...though they do vary from eps to eps as the wardrobe folks sometimes forget who wears what
http://www.trickster.org/arduinna/sg1refmain.html#medals
me, i've got this silly idea....there was a special on pbs last weekend on air force one and they menioned the guy that carries ''the football' a briefcase with all the codes to launch wwIII...now given that jack has said 'air force one and i go way back' i've had this image of him pulling that duty at some point in time. i don't know why i just do.
playing around in washington for a while certainly would account for his contacts, that and 20+ years in the service.
i don't think jack can fly, my only rationale for that, he doesn't wear wings. i certainly could be wrong but i thought once you earned em, you kept em. even if you technicaly aren't qualified to fly you are still a pilot and can wear your winge. jack doesn't.
this is all taken from
http://www.trickster.org/arduinna/sg1refmain.html
which is taken from the show unless stated as fanon.
its a great research page
USAF 66-789-7876-324
Has to have been in the AF for at least 18-19 years to make full colonel. (Joined in 1975, which puts him at as much as 24 years of service as of 1999, although probably 22-23 years because of his temporary retirements. As of Fair Game is wearing an AF Longevity medal with, apparently, three bronze clusters. This can't be right. The medal is for four years of service; each cluster represents an additional awarding. This would mean he's been in in the AF for at least 16 years, but less than 20, as of 1999.)
Has parachuted hundreds of times (Watergate) (is a master-level parachutist; see his full set of medals)
Joined AF at 18 (according to MGM press kit info): "When he joined the Air Force at 18 years of age, O'Neill proved himself to be an exceptional and gifted airman. Assigned to a special training program for covert operations/infiltration, he was trained in the skills of wilderness survival, special weapons and tactics, assassination, demolition, chemical weapons, the manufacture and detonation of explosives, and is a field expedience specialist."
Has resigned twice so far: once after Charlie died, again after returning from Abydos the first time. To have retired (with pension?), would have had to be in the military for at least 20 years already; if he joined at 18, he couldn't retire before 38 (which works out about perfectly, if he's 40 in first season -- which was just over a year from the first mission, which was shortly after Charlie died). Presumably could resign at any time, though.
Will be facing mandatory retirement from active duty after completing 30 years Total Active Federal Commissioned Service. Don't know how long he's been commissioned (although he was a captain as of 1982). Factor in breaks for retirement, he could have 10-15 years left. (retirement info, etc., from the Colonels' Information Handbook)
Recalled from retirement to lead the first mission to Abydos. (Stargate the movie) Retired again on his return, and was recalled again more than a year later to answer questions about the first mission and eventually to command SG-1, the SGC's flagship team.
Has served as official AF technical consultant to a tv show. (Wormhole X-Treme)
Pre-SGC Missions:
1982: Operation East Fly was a mission to retrieve a Russian agent named Boris from a house in East Germany. Members of the team included Captain O'Neill and Captain Kawalsky, under the command of Colonel John Michaels who was killed in action by snipers. (Gamekeeper)
Fanon has Jack serving in Viet Nam. This is impossible. Jack didn't turn 18 until 1975 (canonically born in 1957--Brief Candle), which was the year that all US troops were finally pulled out of Viet Nam. Even if he'd lied about his age to get in younger, we weren't still sending troops to 'Nam at that point. The "proof" given for this fanon is that Jack wears at least one Viet Nam medal. But, given the aired canon on Jack's age, this is simply a mistake. The two Viet Nam medals given were both given only up to 1973 -- Jack would have been 16 in 1973, and certainly couldn't have served in action long enough to have earned the medals--he would have to have joined when he was fifteen. (For specifics on the medals Jack appears to be wearing, see the Air Force descriptions: Vietnam Service and Republic of Vietnam.) Since prop canon is only valid in the absence of aired canon, this basically doesn't count. (Moreover, a closer look at the medals Jack and Sam are wearing during her promotion (Fair Game, third season, 1999) shows that she's not wearing the Air Medal -- which she earned a year earlier (Secrets, second season, 1998). So I'm looking at these medals as a guide, but not cast in stone.)
and this page has all the medals...though they do vary from eps to eps as the wardrobe folks sometimes forget who wears what
http://www.trickster.org/arduinna/sg1refmain.html#medals
Rowan
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- Sep 26, 2000
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- 2,286
'Nam
YES!!!! Thank you Skydiver!!! I've been saying this for years. There's no way Jack could have been 'in country' at his age and rank... it just doesn't fit.
I enlisted in 1974 - still the legal cut off point for 'Nam awards, but my recruiter messed the paperwork and I didn't turn official until July 75 - thereby missing the 'Nam window. I did Desert Storm in 90-91 and got the Southwest Asia, Saudi Liberation of Kuwait and Kuwati Liberation medals out of it [along with some other decorative fruit salad].
{{BTW: I note Jack has the SWA, but *not* the SLK or KLM. Interesting becasue if you spent *any* time at all in the Gulf, you got the SLK [you had to at least be 'in' Kuwait for 24 hours to get the KWM, I believe. Don't remember now]. }}
I left service in April 96: 21+ years.
IF Jack was in 'Nam bare minimum [say - early 75, meaning he at least went through basic or officer basic in 74] and *still* on active duty, we're looking at a span of 27+ years. He's *have* to be on the promotion list to 'General Staff' by now or he'd be 'upped and outted' - *encouraged* to retire because of not makeing adequate rank within a set number of years. He'd have to be at least a 1, of not 2 star by now and that would be his on;ly hope of getting out of retireing. As a Colonel he has a manditory retirement at 30.
It just doesn't work.
God, I love it when someone else can do the math. :flash: :star: :flash:
YES!!!! Thank you Skydiver!!! I've been saying this for years. There's no way Jack could have been 'in country' at his age and rank... it just doesn't fit.
I enlisted in 1974 - still the legal cut off point for 'Nam awards, but my recruiter messed the paperwork and I didn't turn official until July 75 - thereby missing the 'Nam window. I did Desert Storm in 90-91 and got the Southwest Asia, Saudi Liberation of Kuwait and Kuwati Liberation medals out of it [along with some other decorative fruit salad].
{{BTW: I note Jack has the SWA, but *not* the SLK or KLM. Interesting becasue if you spent *any* time at all in the Gulf, you got the SLK [you had to at least be 'in' Kuwait for 24 hours to get the KWM, I believe. Don't remember now]. }}
I left service in April 96: 21+ years.
IF Jack was in 'Nam bare minimum [say - early 75, meaning he at least went through basic or officer basic in 74] and *still* on active duty, we're looking at a span of 27+ years. He's *have* to be on the promotion list to 'General Staff' by now or he'd be 'upped and outted' - *encouraged* to retire because of not makeing adequate rank within a set number of years. He'd have to be at least a 1, of not 2 star by now and that would be his on;ly hope of getting out of retireing. As a Colonel he has a manditory retirement at 30.
It just doesn't work.
God, I love it when someone else can do the math. :flash: :star: :flash:
Pretty cool info. However, think they'd ever have a Brigadier General leading a team? Most probably not. I think Jack's tour would then end and some new officer given the job.
On a related note, do you think the people who put the uniforms together are kmowlegable about ribbons and their proper placement? I would assume that an advisor would be helpful in that regard, or possibly they could just look at a chart.
On a related note, do you think the people who put the uniforms together are kmowlegable about ribbons and their proper placement? I would assume that an advisor would be helpful in that regard, or possibly they could just look at a chart.
technially as a colonel jack really shouldn't be in the field any more. he's too valuable to be running around planets.
in reality he'd be desk bound.
then again in reality a woman, a civilian and an alien wojuldn't be on a first contact team either.
they might still go off world, after the guys go in and make sure it's safe....but this is tv, who needs reality ?
in reality he'd be desk bound.
then again in reality a woman, a civilian and an alien wojuldn't be on a first contact team either.
they might still go off world, after the guys go in and make sure it's safe....but this is tv, who needs reality ?
Can you see Jack as a Captain? That would probably be a more realistic rank for his mission. With some E-5/E-6 types as team members? (No offense to the E-4's and below, but more experienced folks would probably be desired for this one). E-7's and above are just too crusty
Rowan
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Team makeup
I just learned very early on to accept the 'shudder factor' [the way your body shudders when you watch something you know isn't right? I do that a lot with military and medical shows] and go with it.
The teams would probably be lead by a very field experienced Capt. or Major, with one lower ranking officer / Warrent Officer / Senior NCO as 2IC and filled out with experienced NCOs. For a good idea of team makeup, just look at the 'TO&E' [Table of Operations & Equipment = who you have and what you carry] for a Army Special Forces 'A' Team on a 'meet and greet' mission. The whole place is 'way too top heavy on officers and not nearly enough enlisted. Folks... officers give the orders, it's usually the enlisted and NCO's who actually go out and *do* it. They're the one's with the experience.
No way Jack would be in the field. Carter would be kept at base along with Daniel where's she's, and her brain, are safe and Teal'c would have ended up as parts in jars probably at Walter Reed Institute of Pathology.
As for awards, I did ask Tom, their USAF advisor, about that. He gave me a slight grimace and shrugged his shoulders. As he's not on the set all the time, sometimes stuff falls through the cracks. Also, the character background changes as the sho progresses, so at the beginning it may have felt right for Jack to have beenin 'Nam and nobody checked it all the way out.
Carter's are wrong at times. Hammonds have been the most consistant.
{Oh... you guys hit one of my hot buttons: accuracy in a story/show and/or movie. It's not that hard to do the research. I spent three weeks researching a couple of disconected facts in Egyptian mythology for a screen writer who wanted to use them in a script. I had to find a way to connect them and believe me, it came out as a stretch. I doubt I'll ever recieve any credit for it and frankly, by the time it *does* come out, if it does, I don't know if I'll even want to be associated with it. :dead: }
I just learned very early on to accept the 'shudder factor' [the way your body shudders when you watch something you know isn't right? I do that a lot with military and medical shows] and go with it.
The teams would probably be lead by a very field experienced Capt. or Major, with one lower ranking officer / Warrent Officer / Senior NCO as 2IC and filled out with experienced NCOs. For a good idea of team makeup, just look at the 'TO&E' [Table of Operations & Equipment = who you have and what you carry] for a Army Special Forces 'A' Team on a 'meet and greet' mission. The whole place is 'way too top heavy on officers and not nearly enough enlisted. Folks... officers give the orders, it's usually the enlisted and NCO's who actually go out and *do* it. They're the one's with the experience.
No way Jack would be in the field. Carter would be kept at base along with Daniel where's she's, and her brain, are safe and Teal'c would have ended up as parts in jars probably at Walter Reed Institute of Pathology.
As for awards, I did ask Tom, their USAF advisor, about that. He gave me a slight grimace and shrugged his shoulders. As he's not on the set all the time, sometimes stuff falls through the cracks. Also, the character background changes as the sho progresses, so at the beginning it may have felt right for Jack to have beenin 'Nam and nobody checked it all the way out.
Carter's are wrong at times. Hammonds have been the most consistant.
{Oh... you guys hit one of my hot buttons: accuracy in a story/show and/or movie. It's not that hard to do the research. I spent three weeks researching a couple of disconected facts in Egyptian mythology for a screen writer who wanted to use them in a script. I had to find a way to connect them and believe me, it came out as a stretch. I doubt I'll ever recieve any credit for it and frankly, by the time it *does* come out, if it does, I don't know if I'll even want to be associated with it. :dead: }
and since hamond was on his way out in the beginning, i think once the big guys realized that the
sgc was a 'real' post and not just busy work for a general on teh short end of retirement, hammy would have been sent on his way with a 'thanks for all the hard work' and a younger, more up and coming officer would have been put in his place....at least i think it would be that way.
sgc was a 'real' post and not just busy work for a general on teh short end of retirement, hammy would have been sent on his way with a 'thanks for all the hard work' and a younger, more up and coming officer would have been put in his place....at least i think it would be that way.
CynVision
CO, RDA's Leather Brigade
thanks Skydiver and Rowan! I'm adding this file to my fic folder to reference. Something is better than the black hole the show writers leave us in And I'm so glad my math matches your math and Jack's b-day is somewhere in 1957. I needed that for a fic once...
And I'm so glad my math matches your math and Jack's b-day is somewhere in 1957. I needed that for a fic once...
Rowan
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Hammond
Not sure on that, Sky. A lot would depend on Hammond's record, who he knew and knew him, etc. Since he was already the man in place, that would make it less likely to move him. Also you'd need the clout of the higher rank and you won't find too many M.Gen. out of his age bracket. That posting warrents at least a 2 star, if not a three. It's a direct Presidential appointment. He does liason with the JCoS and Pentagon, but ultimately his authority comes from that red phone on his desk.
I don't remember right off hand what West was [a 2 star, I think], but that would give us a starting point.
I don't see this as the kind of post for a younger, up and commer' to lead. Maybe a 2IC to train up to it, but you want the years of experience and a level head for this, not necessarily youth. You need someone who's fought in the trenches, both in the field and in the wilds of Washington, DC.
IMHO, of course...
Not sure on that, Sky. A lot would depend on Hammond's record, who he knew and knew him, etc. Since he was already the man in place, that would make it less likely to move him. Also you'd need the clout of the higher rank and you won't find too many M.Gen. out of his age bracket. That posting warrents at least a 2 star, if not a three. It's a direct Presidential appointment. He does liason with the JCoS and Pentagon, but ultimately his authority comes from that red phone on his desk.
I don't remember right off hand what West was [a 2 star, I think], but that would give us a starting point.
I don't see this as the kind of post for a younger, up and commer' to lead. Maybe a 2IC to train up to it, but you want the years of experience and a level head for this, not necessarily youth. You need someone who's fought in the trenches, both in the field and in the wilds of Washington, DC.
IMHO, of course...
Rowan
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Security at the Gate
They are 'Security Forces' the Air Force term for their law enforcement branch. I would imagine that the closer to the gate you got, the more intense the additional experience and training would be required of the person, not to mention a spotless security record.
They are 'Security Forces' the Air Force term for their law enforcement branch. I would imagine that the closer to the gate you got, the more intense the additional experience and training would be required of the person, not to mention a spotless security record.
I retired from the USAF in 1998, and they were still called "Security Police". I believe Law Enforcement was a separate career field. Then someone got the idea to combine SP's, LE's, and Small Arms Instructors into one big field called Security Forces. Guess it kind of made sense, although some LE types weren't happy.
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