Ender: too much of a good thing?

Discussion in 'Orson Scott Card' started by Brian G Turner, Mar 15, 2004.

  1. Brian G Turner

    Brian G Turner He's a very naughty boy! Staff Member

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    Ender's Game has some fantasy elements (the game with the giant bones, etc), so ultimately someone is going to rubbish it as sciecne fiction on technical grounds. :)
     
  2. Jayaprakash Satyamurthy

    Jayaprakash Satyamurthy Knivesout no more

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    Well that game would really qualify more as a cyberpunk element, don't you think? :p
     
  3. Lacedaemonian

    Lacedaemonian A Plume of Smoke

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    Or a totally shat computer game. Although I would download it, just to gore out the giants eyes...
     
  4. Nicado

    Nicado New Member

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    Hey Lacedaemonian,

    First things first...can you please give me some kinda nick for you cuz your name is too darn long to type and I don't like copying and pasting. Lazy but can type fast. :)

    You've found George RR Martin and his Song of Ice and Fire series. They are not your average fantasy. I just finished a series by the author Glen Cook. It's "The Black Company" series and is a raw read. It's a different read, but I enjoyed the series and, in fact, could not get away with having the next book beside me. The last two books in the multiple series aren't as good as the rest but they are interesting and are still a good read.

    Enders Game and co. are all good. Nothing competes with the original, as always, but hey, for sci fi fantasy there is no one better around than Card, unless someone else says different in which case I would love to know who those authors are.

    I'm devouring books of sci-fi, sci-fi fantasy, sci-fi comedy, fantasy comedy and fantasy lately. I'm always on the lookout for authors of those genres that other people have found. So if anyone has suggestions please postem.

    Happy hunting

    Nic
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2004
  5. Jayaprakash Satyamurthy

    Jayaprakash Satyamurthy Knivesout no more

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    Actually for me those last chapters were most important, becuase they address the one question that really needs to be asked about any war: was it justified? Ender was increasingly uncomfortable with his role as The Ender of the buggers - and that final revelation was perhaps the most tough and thought-provoking element of the whole story, and hats off to Card for being willing to put it in. It is easy to ignore this aspect, glibly presenting the conflicts as inevitable and then getting on with the battles. In real life, greed, ingnorance and fear are the main factors that make conflict inevitable - a truth that Ender's Game does not skirt around.
     
  6. Jucifer

    Jucifer Member

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    Fantasy is all about new or alterante worlds Sci Fi sometimes is about how to get to those new worlds. Of course the two genres cross over from time to time. I'll admit though some Sci Fi can be very boring to fantasy fans who don't like science, therories, or numbers.

    Hyperion by Don Simmons is an example of cross over between sci fi and fantasy. But I have a feeling that more than a few fantasy readers would claim its pure sci fi.

    Neuromancer by William Gibson is a great work of sci fi. Its becoming a very possible reality as a matter of fact. Artificial Inteligence while at its infancy is a must take course for every computer science major in college. And the interenet absorbed many humans into it.
     
  7. fish

    fish Mostly harmless

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    If you'll look at the sequels to Neuromancer you'll see they get rather fantastic,

    a lot about "ghosts" that are not strongly tied to the scientific/technological aspects of the story...
     
  8. Adelbert100

    Adelbert100 New Member

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    I really enjoyed abut 85% of Ender's Game and then felt disappointed with the very end.

    I'm not sure why I felt that way, but it left me definitely not wanting to read any sequels.
     
  9. Leto

    Leto Outside

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    Err, have you tried "Lord Valentin's castle" by Robert Silverberg ?
    it's SF but not at all about tech, and the plot is similar to the plot of many fantasy books.
     
  10. Brian G Turner

    Brian G Turner He's a very naughty boy! Staff Member

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    That's a point - Peter - what did you think of Ender's Game in the end? I don;t remember you ever posting your thoughts on that. Is it better that you hadn't? :)
     
  11. a|one

    a|one another brick in the wall

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    My first day here and again I find myself agreeing with you Lace. Having read Ender's Game i found it to be an alright book. OSC does have a talent for keeping you interested, but the conclusion was just altogether to predictable.
    And lets face it, he may have found an original concept for beating down the aliens, but its still just another way of beating down the aliens. As Sci-Fi books go, Ender Game was pretty good, but thats not saying much in my opinion. As for all the little ad-ons etc, the copy of enders game I read actually included several of these in it, and they didnt really appeal at all. Seems like hes just trying to milk his great success, but who knows.

    Also Lace if your looking for a Sci Fi book/trilogy I recommend the Quintara Marathon. Some of the concepts for the three societys are a lil unrealistic, but the characters are very real and in depth. And its not all guns either :cool:
     
  12. Lacedaemonian

    Lacedaemonian A Plume of Smoke

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    Ender's Game was an excellent read. The end was a little poor but I think that most sci-fi and fantasy novels end poorly. Eddings is the worst author in this genre in terms of ending a story on a crap note. His Sparhawk series being a delightful example of this. I do plan on reading the other Ender books when I am in the mood.
     
  13. shaggydog

    shaggydog soy la muerte y te quiero

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    I loved Ender's Game, and also its sequels, enders and shadow both, the only one i think OSC did not put the best of him is Shadow puppets, written quickly and uncarefully, it seems to me...
    i really think Orson will not ever write things as Enders Game, Speaker for the death, Treason or Wyrms (and some other left behind) again, he is much occupied in his speeches and travelling around USA just teaching new writers than in create stories and characters as deep as he did.
    Poor Alvin, his beggining was great, and... did u read the last one?? alvin has become a superman who can do everything, so you never suffer, he is too good, he is almost Jesus. The only thing that saves in that book is ArthurEstuard, the black boy Alvin is teaching the secrets of being a Maker.
    I dont know, it is just i got really disapointed with the last books I read from him... >I hope the fourth shadow will be again a book, not some ideas put together and see what the quill throws off.
    :mad:
     
  14. Lacedaemonian

    Lacedaemonian A Plume of Smoke

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    I will have to check out the rest of his works, I own a few of them but I forget which ones. I think that they are Speaker for the Dead and Xenocide.
     
  15. shaggydog

    shaggydog soy la muerte y te quiero

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    then go quick where u have your books and start with the Speaker for the Death... it is really BRILLIANT!! it even better than Ender's game...
    its, for me, probably the best book he's written...
     
  16. Lacedaemonian

    Lacedaemonian A Plume of Smoke

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    People usually refer to Ender's Game as being the best book he has ever written and suggest that his other works are poor. Having only read Ender's Game I am in no position to make this assertion.
     
  17. Jinglehopper

    Jinglehopper Well-Known Member

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    Ender's Game was good, especially since it was written in 1980 before the idea of the internet was widely accepted. I found the ending to rock, it was not predicted at all but I guess that's because I'm an idiot.

    I also read all his sequels and agree with most of the sentiments here. Shadow Puppets was awful, the rest are simply ok. The ideas in the Ender sequels are interesting but ultimately the adrenaline I got from reading Ender's Game was never duplicated.

    I also read another series of his. I forget what it was called, Earthsea or something. Also not that great but he does keep you reading.

    and as for the sci-fi vs. fantasy debate. Relax, they are more related than you know.
     
  18. Plo Addonnas

    Plo Addonnas Member

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    Ender's Game was a perfect stand-alone novel, but the three sequels make it so much better. Because they take place so many years in the future and under such extremely different circumstances, it's really like two different stories. Personally, I thought it was great to be able to read about Ender as an adult. Ender's Game is fast-paced, thought-provoking, and fun to read. The three sequels are filled with less action but a lot more intelectual stimulation. The stories are so different and so good I really don't see why anyone's bitching about it.
     
  19. Nebogipfel

    Nebogipfel Member

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    I just finished the third sequel (Children of the Mind) and the character that really pulled those four together was Jane.

    My fave was Xenocide, that book had the most fantantistic ending, far better than the "depressed" ending for Game. Rereading Game for the 3rd time though it becomes more bearable and understood. Remember also that Card wrote Ender's Game in the mid-80s, his concepts of virtual gaming were incredibly advanced for the time (also portable comps were quite rare and rather luggable), not the standard stuff of crime-dramas and parentally-oriented news. My favorite aspect of Card is that he never lets the science get in the way of the story and the characters. He makes no attempt to "immerse" the reader but lets them see natural progression of technology through his characters.

    Sorry to ramble but in my mind OSC is the best sci-fi writer of recent decades.

    OSC also wrote a sci-fi series that looks like a crossover to me, his Homecoming Series. Personally the first book was never interesting enough for me to bother reading through it or the other 3-7 books.
     
  20. gleek

    gleek Member

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    i completely agree with this statement and i just want to point out to lacedaemonian that not all scifi literature is inherently based in science. there are times when i wish we could re-name the genre entirely! for example, look at star trek (star trek: the next generation comes quick to mind). here we have a universe that so depends on the science that brings humanity across the galaxy but the majority of the plotlines for ST centered around characters and interaction between humans/aliens. there were always some episodes where all the science gobble-de-gook got in the way, yes, but they were few and far between.like ST, OSC uses science as a vehicle to propel his characters into the plot. he does not depend on it to explain his story.

    this is one reason why i put OSC above frank herbert in my line of favorite scifi authors. i always feel that i'm going to get a good read with OSC: character interaction, philosophy, history... he includes all of these. frank herbert, god bless him, went overboard with science and technicalities on way too many books (i.e. the pandora series.. very technical although still a FANTASTIC read).

    i know that this thread is very old but i think that lacedaemonian should try the rama series by arthur c. clarke and if you like dune but couldn't get into the minutiae of all the sequels, try the prequels written by his son, brian herbert. they're more character driven than dune (and some hate them because of it) but i thought that they were a fun read and definitely touched heavily on the human condition.
     
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