4.20: Entity

gategeek

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military etiquette always confuses me. for example- saluting. i can't ever figure out when they do and when they don't. it seems very random.
 

markpud

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i think technically all military personnel should salute anyone more senior than themselves whenever they see them on duty... but like i said, i'm not a military person, so i could be wrong ;)
 

Rowan

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Military standards

There are set situation and rules for the salute:

The military hand salute is a 'movement' of respect stemming back to medieval days [and before]. When two armored and helmeted men would meet, they would lift their visors so that both parties could see each other's faces and show that their right hand [usually the sword hand] did not carry a weapon.

You can see the same sort of action in Ancient Rome with the fist to chest - it shows the man facing you is unarmed - no sword or knife in his hand.

Most salutes also require the 'greeting of the day' to be given, at least, when out doors [sometimes in - military protocol]. This is usually something like "Good Morning, Sir."

All enlisted of no matter what rank salute an officer of any rank, the enlisted instigating the salute and the officer returning it. The enlisted is to maintain the hand salute and not drop it until it is returned by the officer. The salute offered indoors is a matter of company police [some don't *require* the use of the hand salute indoors but it's use is optional and can sometimes help get you out of trouble if you've mucked up. This can be discussed later].

Junior officers are required to salute a senior ranking officer, even if they are only separated by one pay grade. A Captain salutes a Major, a Colonel salutes a General. A Lieutenant salutes everybody.

Enlisted do not usually salute enlisted except under very certain situations, such as unit /platoon /company /etc formations when the presiding officer has released the officers and remanded the enlisted members to the senior NCO present. When the SNCOP releases the enlisted to their individual NCO's, those NCOs receiving their troops salute the SNCOP who returns their salute.

Unless an area is designated a 'no cover' area [you don't have to wear a hat or 'cover' outside a building], you salute while wearing headgear. The exceptions are: women are allowed to wear a head covering indoors and do not require a salute and :a person bearing arms [weapons] is always wearing a cover [check out the SF's: if they've got a sidearm, they've got a hat] and do not require a salute indoors.

If a member of the military is out of uniform at a military function such as a funeral or the passing of the US flag on parade, a salute is not appropriate. The placing of
of one's right hand over the heart is the appropriate gesture of respect.

One situation where saluting is *not welcome* is in a combat environment. One of the reason the different branches of the service have gone to subdued colors for rank insignia. In passing, you may make a quiet recognition, but do nothing that may signal out who is senior and/or who is in command.

Or, as I had to teach my officer Nurses in Desert Storm: 'Sniper Check, Ma'am. They shoot the one who salutes second.' [the officer is the one who returns the salute. You might as well just ,ark them with bright orange paint.]

I think this covers the basic. Any specific questions, please feel free to ask. I gotta do something with all this stuff the Army taught me and I taught my junior NCOs and enlisted.
 

gategeek

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SA-LUTE!

thanks rowan
now i know i'm wandering off topic now but i did have a question re salutes. in the ep tangent at the very beginning how come jack saluted gen. vidrine but not gen. hammond and how come sam didn't salute at all?
 

Rowan

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Slautes

If service members are in groups, the senior of one groups handles the salute for the entire group. Keeps hands from slying all of=ver the place.

Jack is senior to Sam so he instigated the salute. Gen Vidrine is senior to Gen Hammond by one star. He retuned the salute. Note Jack held the salute until it was returned.
 

gategeek

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ok so jack saluted 'coz he was outside. so if they'd been inside the sgc he wouldn't have had to salute- is that right? also is that why he didn't salute gen.ryan in progidy? sorry for all these lame questions...
 

Rowan

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No such thing as a lame questions.

Correct, as he was indoors, he was not *required* to salute. He had that option.

Besides. If I'd just spent the last couple of minutes dissing some guy's mission plan to my CO only to find out I was dissing the Air Forec Joint Chief of Staff's plan and he was standing right there next to me, I'd be lucky to get as many intellengent or semi-intellengent words out as Jack did. :D
 

kelsi

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This salute thing is really interesting, and much more complex than I thought! rowan, you in the army or something?
 

Rowan

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In the service

21&1/2 half OD green Army years both reserve and active. Retired as an E-8 and held both Master Sergeant and First Sergeant Positions. Did my time in Desert Shielf/Storm in Rhyiadh, Saudi Arabia and points north. Was on the list for the E-9 board and Sergeant's Major Academy when my last enlistment was up. Couldn't find a unit to call home and they wouldn't let me re-enlist without a unit slot somewhere.

Both parents and uncle were Navy in WWI and Korea. My husband was Army Airborne and SF. My son is joining the Navy next month.

Rowan
 

jsc

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Rowan! Thank you, this is great information! Something that we needed to here! We are happy that you supplied it. But best is if the people are in a combat situation the last one saluting gets shot is a good one to remember! Hope this lets all know how awful it really is to be in a combat situation! Loved the fact that you gave a brief history of the salute also!
 

skydiver

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that's PROBABLY why they don't have their ranks on their field uniforms...then again sg-1 has ticked off so many goa'uld...they'll probably get shot on sight.

is it possible for a commander, like hammond, to make some sort of 'rule' that people don't have to salute? i know we mainly see them inside but...well short of briefings we don't see everyone jumping to their feet whenever george walks into the room.

do base commanders have leeway to make 'house rules'

and technically shouldn't there be someone who 'mans the bridge' whenever george goes home?
i know in 'the other side' sam appeared to be in charge, is there an officer of the day or whoever is of highest rank just runs the place when george leaves?
 

markpud

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wow, thanks Rowan, thats some really cool info!

I thought that Hammond just allowed O'Neill to be a bit slack due to the special circumstances of the SGC, but I also knew that the SG-1 producers have mil. advisors, so I'm glad to see how it all ties up...
 

Rowan

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Questions

Yes, a Base or Post commander can set 'in-house' rulings about some things - like rendering the hand salute indoors. It appears the salute is not manditory within the SGC, but is sometimes given as a gesture of respect on a personal level.

Any facility has a designated Second In Command, abbrev. in the Air Force as 2IC. Usually the next senior officer. It is not uncommon for both the CO and 2IC to be on duty at the same time.

There is also someone appointed, usually one enlisted and one officer who is in charge of things during a shift or watch. The title used is often 'Administrative Officer of the Day' [AOD] or Non-Comminished Officer of the Day [NCOD]. They're in charge when the CO or 2IC are not in house. They hold command of the facility until they recieve orders from the CO/2IC or either of those two report to the facility.

I'm not sure why SG-1 one doesn't wear rink in the field as I've seen other teams's members wearing rank. Could be personal prefference of the Team Leader that Hammond is letting him get away with. :}

Rowan.
 

markpud

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remember the ep where they have a different CO, and how he reacts to Jack, and to the informal protocols of the SGC...
 

jsc

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Trivia Goddess? LOLLOL!!!

Does your appellation then make our Vera the Quiz Goddess?
 

skydiver

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it should...she comes up with far more & better qustions than i do...i tell people at work i'm a font of useless knowledge...that will only save your life if you're on jeopardy someday
 

Rowan

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Hammond and other CO's

Oh, yeah... Hammond let's them all get away with stuff that most CO's would come unglued about. But that's why Hammond is a good CO for this command. He's flexible and let's his folks try new ideas and 'wing it' as necessary.

A 'By The Book' man like Bauer is not a good CO for this type of project. To rigid in his thinking. But I give him credit... he did have the good grace to make an effort to acknowledge that Sam was right. Not a common thing at all.
 

SGPflughaupt

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Heres another little bit of mil.protocol trivia. I dont remember the episide but in one of them Jack was reporting to Gen.Hammond's office and when he knocked on the door he used the proper '1 knock' rather than the common knock-knock. I thought that was a nice bit of realism.
 

Rowan

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All Right!

Originally posted by SGPflughaupt
Heres another little bit of mil.protocol trivia. I dont remember the episide but in one of them Jack was reporting to Gen.Hammond's office and when he knocked on the door he used the proper '1 knock' rather than the common knock-knock. I thought that was a nice bit of realism.
You caught that! Wonderful. Yep, just one of those little bits of military porticol that never gets written down, you just learn as you go along.

Like what you can call your First Sergeant when: 'First Sergeant James', 'First Sergeant' or you can get away with 'Top'. :D
 
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