well think about it, since the show started, sam's been killed once, taken by a goa'uld, thrown in prison a time or two, had her memories messed with in fire & water, jol mems, tdyk, tortured by apophis, killed a god, faced then had to save the life of the goa'uld that caused the askrak to kill her, been turned into a robot, had her memories wiped again, had to face or not face her feeling for jack, kill her symbiote's husband and now she's been invaded by an alien and killed by a man who's not only her boss but her...wanna be boyfriend...i think she'd be hitting the valium myself. and the guys aren't exactly unscathed either.
4.20: Entity
- Thread starter Marie
- Start date
They really should get LOTS or R and R! maybe we should email the pentagon, Cheyenne Mountain, Hammond or the writers! I know were Teal'c can recouperate! And The same for Jack, hi skydiver, Daniel and Sam! (LOL grins ferally and with great hope! after all coffeecup got him in the tub...!)
lol, skydiver.... and that litany doesn't include all that's happened in fanfic, to boot!
On this episode:
Did anyone else notice the oops? Take a look at Danny's arm patch in the scene where he and Samantha are telling Hammond how fried the system is (while the camera is watching them from behind). On about half the scenes, the /\ is angeled towards his back rather than downwards.
And if the dialing sequence was down, and the base was on quarentine, how did Hammond notify the off-world teams to stay put?
And, being the really anal person I can be, I did a freeze-frame the computer screen flashing the personnel records. Of the names that came up (other than our heroes), at least one was noted as being assinged to Team SG1; two of them had the same serial number, and one of them, "Lee Van Cleef", had two different photos but the same name. Someone got lazy. I'm guessing these are people in the effects department having a bit of fun.
I too liked Jack's humor at parts (the memos, oh, lol, that is soooo my life at work right now); the light bulb exchange with Siler was perfect, but I too thought that "Do I look fat" was really lame.
Daniel's coldness at Sam's apparent death: to me it looked just like his reaction to Jack being implanted with the goa'uld in 'Into the Fire'. That same, frozen, staring look that shows no emotion at all. Guess that's just his way of dealing with it?
I personally kinda think Hammond knows *all* about what was said between Jack and Sam in Divide and Conquer. He just is hoping he doesn't have to do anything about it (i.e. transfer one of them out of the sgc), like he's watching the two of them to see if there's any inappropriate behavior. The way, after he gave condolence to Jack, and Jack said "she's a valued member of my team", and Hammond just gave Jack a look that said "yeah, right, uh huh, whatever you say, son".
I loved the scene when Jack threatens the entity with sending probes to it's home world. The way Amanda said so much with her eyes in that scene. When the entity says "you wouldn't", Jack says "You've read my file, think again", and AT just blinks and shifts her eyes said so much. That was great acting.
I'm no shipper, as some of you know me from other boards, but the shipper aspect of this one didn't bother me. It was all unsaid, which I think is best!
On this episode:
Did anyone else notice the oops? Take a look at Danny's arm patch in the scene where he and Samantha are telling Hammond how fried the system is (while the camera is watching them from behind). On about half the scenes, the /\ is angeled towards his back rather than downwards.
And if the dialing sequence was down, and the base was on quarentine, how did Hammond notify the off-world teams to stay put?
And, being the really anal person I can be, I did a freeze-frame the computer screen flashing the personnel records. Of the names that came up (other than our heroes), at least one was noted as being assinged to Team SG1; two of them had the same serial number, and one of them, "Lee Van Cleef", had two different photos but the same name. Someone got lazy. I'm guessing these are people in the effects department having a bit of fun.
I too liked Jack's humor at parts (the memos, oh, lol, that is soooo my life at work right now); the light bulb exchange with Siler was perfect, but I too thought that "Do I look fat" was really lame.
Daniel's coldness at Sam's apparent death: to me it looked just like his reaction to Jack being implanted with the goa'uld in 'Into the Fire'. That same, frozen, staring look that shows no emotion at all. Guess that's just his way of dealing with it?
I personally kinda think Hammond knows *all* about what was said between Jack and Sam in Divide and Conquer. He just is hoping he doesn't have to do anything about it (i.e. transfer one of them out of the sgc), like he's watching the two of them to see if there's any inappropriate behavior. The way, after he gave condolence to Jack, and Jack said "she's a valued member of my team", and Hammond just gave Jack a look that said "yeah, right, uh huh, whatever you say, son".
I loved the scene when Jack threatens the entity with sending probes to it's home world. The way Amanda said so much with her eyes in that scene. When the entity says "you wouldn't", Jack says "You've read my file, think again", and AT just blinks and shifts her eyes said so much. That was great acting.
I'm no shipper, as some of you know me from other boards, but the shipper aspect of this one didn't bother me. It was all unsaid, which I think is best!
is holdings hands against regulations too?
the regs in stargate are maybe a little exagerated..it can't be that bad right?
co or not what's wrong with this, can't they just give them a break? i mean she's his friend before all and anyway hammond know everything
MORT AUX COLLABOS ET AUX BOCHES!!!!!!!
the regs in stargate are maybe a little exagerated..it can't be that bad right?
co or not what's wrong with this, can't they just give them a break? i mean she's his friend before all and anyway hammond know everything
MORT AUX COLLABOS ET AUX BOCHES!!!!!!!
i don't think holding hands is agains regs per se...but jack sure wouldn't do it in front of hammond...since sam has said no repeatedly jack seems to be going out of his way to keep a distance between them, mainly, in my opinion, because even the hint of a scandal could totally trash her career...it's sorta funny but adultry or inappropriate behavior is treated nearly as harshly as treason...
if hammond "knew" they had a realtionship he could:
1) look the other way knowing that his tush could be on the line if anyone else found out
2) jack or sam could retire thus making it possible
3) one or both of them could be courtmartialed, drummed out of the service, lose their pension and benefits and basically be totally disgraced.
a fan fic writer did bring up what might be a solution for the shippers among us. now if one of them were to transfer to another chain of command, say sam went back to the pentagon(this is what happened in the fic) then if they were married while they were in different chains of command, sam could then transfer back and she & jack could work together legally. i'm of course assuming this work with military regs but it could be a loophole...or the prez could just give his blessing.
if hammond "knew" they had a realtionship he could:
1) look the other way knowing that his tush could be on the line if anyone else found out
2) jack or sam could retire thus making it possible
3) one or both of them could be courtmartialed, drummed out of the service, lose their pension and benefits and basically be totally disgraced.
a fan fic writer did bring up what might be a solution for the shippers among us. now if one of them were to transfer to another chain of command, say sam went back to the pentagon(this is what happened in the fic) then if they were married while they were in different chains of command, sam could then transfer back and she & jack could work together legally. i'm of course assuming this work with military regs but it could be a loophole...or the prez could just give his blessing.
What if Sam was simply given her own command, like another SG unit? She would then report directly to Hammond, not to Jack, and technically would no longer be under Jack's command, although he would still outrank her. Just wondering. Exactly what do the regulations say?
i THINK she would have to be with in 2 rank steps of him or of equal rank. so if she got promoted to lt. colonel and he stayed colonel then theycould. but they have also not stated if jack in 2ic of the base, it's fanon and just been implied. if he is, then anyone on the base is off limits to him, just like anyone is off limits to george.
also even if she got promoted and then they had a realtionship it could be tainted...ie sam got promoted cause she was sleeping with jack.
also even if she got promoted and then they had a realtionship it could be tainted...ie sam got promoted cause she was sleeping with jack.
Yes, because the promotion would be based partly on Jack's review of her performance. It looks like a no-win situation for Sam and Jack. I'm no shipper, but I still would like these two to get together somehow. Would it be improper if Sam does what her two AU selves did and work for the SGC as a civilian astrophysicist or would Jack's possible 2IC status interfere with that as well? I'd hate for her to give up her military career, though, and could Jack really have three civilians on his team? (Teal'c is officially a civilian in spite of his military background, if I'm not mistaken). And am I getting us off the topic, which was Entity? To quote Shifu, "Questions are plentiful. Answers are few."
Rowan
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Perspective
The idea that the 'enity' only wanted to survive and was doing the same thing SG-1 would do on another planet was interesting and has made for some great discussions her and on the e-mail lists.
I want to thrown out a nibble for thought and discussion.
Jack was right. It should have been distroyed from the beginning. From a military & tactical standpoint, the 'enity' had infiltrated SGC and was in a position to cause serious harm to the complex and, via it, to Earth.
Comments? It's my time in the military showing, folks.
The idea that the 'enity' only wanted to survive and was doing the same thing SG-1 would do on another planet was interesting and has made for some great discussions her and on the e-mail lists.
I want to thrown out a nibble for thought and discussion.
Jack was right. It should have been distroyed from the beginning. From a military & tactical standpoint, the 'enity' had infiltrated SGC and was in a position to cause serious harm to the complex and, via it, to Earth.
Comments? It's my time in the military showing, folks.
true, it had invaded the sgc and was preparing to destroy them, and that sorta makes it an enemy but...is it really wise to go around ticking off superior forces?
so far they'd been lucky, the tollan, finding a 'good' ree-tou(though i'd love for them to come back), even the foothold aliens seemed more focused on infiltration than destruction. think about it, if the foothold aliens hadn't have needed their minds, heck the whole sgc woulda been toast.
up to this point the aliens have been sentient enough to reason with and allow both of them to survive. for example the orb aliens in message in a bottle.
it's been made very clear to the sgc that they are in way over their heads and just having the goa'uld as enemies ismore than enough for them to handle so ticking off another planet or species just wouldnt' be very wise.
so far they'd been lucky, the tollan, finding a 'good' ree-tou(though i'd love for them to come back), even the foothold aliens seemed more focused on infiltration than destruction. think about it, if the foothold aliens hadn't have needed their minds, heck the whole sgc woulda been toast.
up to this point the aliens have been sentient enough to reason with and allow both of them to survive. for example the orb aliens in message in a bottle.
it's been made very clear to the sgc that they are in way over their heads and just having the goa'uld as enemies ismore than enough for them to handle so ticking off another planet or species just wouldnt' be very wise.
Rowan
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Comments
Thanks for coming back on this, Skydiver. Anyone else?
Reasons that I'm right or wrong other than 'Just because'? I'm asking for people to try thinking outside of the box here, from the military perspective: one that folks don't tend to use a lot.
Thanks for coming back on this, Skydiver. Anyone else?
Reasons that I'm right or wrong other than 'Just because'? I'm asking for people to try thinking outside of the box here, from the military perspective: one that folks don't tend to use a lot.
well rowan, from a military pov, yeah they shoulda blasted the thing. i guess i'm a little like daniel, just think how trek woulda turned out if kirk & co blasted every alien they came across(yeah, they did do it a lot...or try to convert them to the proper way of thinking but work with me here)
what if jack had just blasted away at the tok'ra in tok'ra? sg-1 woulda likely died on the planet at the least or had absolutely no allies at the most cause obviously they woulda ticked the tok'ra off, along with the nox & tollan since the tok'ra are 'their freiends'
without tok'ra help, hathor woulda creamed them all in out of mind/into the fire.
never mind it seems to be earth's ability to ask questions first and shoot second that makes the asgard like them...
there's a series of cute citi-bank commercials out right now whose theme is 'just because you have the power doesn't mean you have to use it'
just because the sgc can cream someone doesn't mean they have to...like hammond's attitude in message in a bottle 'we've been bringing back stuff for months, one of them finally bit us in the tush..."(paraphrased a bit)
guess sometimes the military way isn't always the 'right' way when you're dealing with tons of unknowns like they are...
totally my opinion and i'd like to hear others...there are a lot of people around here from all walks of like..whattta you think?
what if jack had just blasted away at the tok'ra in tok'ra? sg-1 woulda likely died on the planet at the least or had absolutely no allies at the most cause obviously they woulda ticked the tok'ra off, along with the nox & tollan since the tok'ra are 'their freiends'
without tok'ra help, hathor woulda creamed them all in out of mind/into the fire.
never mind it seems to be earth's ability to ask questions first and shoot second that makes the asgard like them...
there's a series of cute citi-bank commercials out right now whose theme is 'just because you have the power doesn't mean you have to use it'
just because the sgc can cream someone doesn't mean they have to...like hammond's attitude in message in a bottle 'we've been bringing back stuff for months, one of them finally bit us in the tush..."(paraphrased a bit)
guess sometimes the military way isn't always the 'right' way when you're dealing with tons of unknowns like they are...
totally my opinion and i'd like to hear others...there are a lot of people around here from all walks of like..whattta you think?
Re: Perspective
Hi Rowan, OK I'll bite.
Looking at it from the enitity's point of view. SG1 invaded it's world, uninvited, and then proceded to cause irreprable (sp?) damage. It did the only thing it could by reacting in a like manner and storming into their world with the intention of causing irreprable damage. It gave logical reasons for all it's actions (based on self preservation) and Jacks "shoot first ask questions later" attitude hindered any chance of coming to a peaceful solution.
Wow, it's fun playing devils advocate ain't it?
cheers
Mishkaz
Hi Rowan, OK I'll bite.
Looking at it from the enitity's point of view. SG1 invaded it's world, uninvited, and then proceded to cause irreprable (sp?) damage. It did the only thing it could by reacting in a like manner and storming into their world with the intention of causing irreprable damage. It gave logical reasons for all it's actions (based on self preservation) and Jacks "shoot first ask questions later" attitude hindered any chance of coming to a peaceful solution.
Wow, it's fun playing devils advocate ain't it?
cheers
Mishkaz
What I find curious was that alfer all the threats against its people and being trapped in Sam's body, the first thing it did was to put Sam's personality into the computer then facing down Jack knowing that it had no chance of surviving the encounter. I might have opted for going into the computer and hiding until later... It might even have done that we don't know...
Was it a sacrafice for it's fellow beings so they (SGC)wouldn't open the gate, was it suicide by using the gun of another... Was it making a gesture of saving Sam so the SGC wouldn't go back to its home worldor did it recognize Sam as a living entity entitled to life.
Was it a sacrafice for it's fellow beings so they (SGC)wouldn't open the gate, was it suicide by using the gun of another... Was it making a gesture of saving Sam so the SGC wouldn't go back to its home worldor did it recognize Sam as a living entity entitled to life.
holy schishkabobs!!!! i have aliens!!!!! YIPPEE!!!!! my own little personal quartet...let's see, there's jack, daniel, paul and aldwin...
ooh just though of this, i could have my own beatles...there's jon(athon), paul(davis), george (hammond) and ...spacemonkey(ringo...yeah it's a stretch but it's late & i'm loopy)
anyway, back to topic, maybe the same could be said for jolinar. true, she did invade sam, she said it was a last ditch effort to live(or has been so implied)
but, regardless, she didn't HAVE to save sam's life. apophis certainly didn't seem to care about saving his host of a few millennia...in fact he was eager as all getout to leave him.
but...in jolinar saving sam she opened up the door to a dialogue between the tok'ra & earth.
now it's extrememly unlikely that the sgc will ever go back to the entity's planet, but...only one entity died. sparky showed some compassion which can be seen as a sign of sentience...and saved its 'people'.
the whole entity thing was one huge case of miscommunication. and going in guns a blazin doesn't promote dialogue...it just makes things worse.
ooh just though of this, i could have my own beatles...there's jon(athon), paul(davis), george (hammond) and ...spacemonkey(ringo...yeah it's a stretch but it's late & i'm loopy)
anyway, back to topic, maybe the same could be said for jolinar. true, she did invade sam, she said it was a last ditch effort to live(or has been so implied)
but, regardless, she didn't HAVE to save sam's life. apophis certainly didn't seem to care about saving his host of a few millennia...in fact he was eager as all getout to leave him.
but...in jolinar saving sam she opened up the door to a dialogue between the tok'ra & earth.
now it's extrememly unlikely that the sgc will ever go back to the entity's planet, but...only one entity died. sparky showed some compassion which can be seen as a sign of sentience...and saved its 'people'.
the whole entity thing was one huge case of miscommunication. and going in guns a blazin doesn't promote dialogue...it just makes things worse.
Rowan
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'Military Perspective'
Thank you Mishkaz, JSC and Skydiver - feedback and thought! thanks what I was hoping to see. And yes, Mishkaz, I like playing the Devil's Advocate... it makes people think.
But I *do* tend to look at SG-1 differently than a good many fans becaue I come from a military family [mom, dad and uncle in WWII and Korea] was/is military mysled [21+ years US Army active and reserve to include Desert Shield/Storm] and my husband was/is Army Airborne/Sp. Forces. [Was/is means we're out now but could be recalled if it all fell apart]. The military headset in regards to 'right & wrong' really is a different world.
I like to challenge folks to look at the show from a strictly military view at times. It can shed a whole new light and levels of character depth and conflict on things.
{from the mouth of an Army E-8/ MSG/1SG}
Thank you Mishkaz, JSC and Skydiver - feedback and thought! thanks what I was hoping to see. And yes, Mishkaz, I like playing the Devil's Advocate... it makes people think.
But I *do* tend to look at SG-1 differently than a good many fans becaue I come from a military family [mom, dad and uncle in WWII and Korea] was/is military mysled [21+ years US Army active and reserve to include Desert Shield/Storm] and my husband was/is Army Airborne/Sp. Forces. [Was/is means we're out now but could be recalled if it all fell apart]. The military headset in regards to 'right & wrong' really is a different world.
I like to challenge folks to look at the show from a strictly military view at times. It can shed a whole new light and levels of character depth and conflict on things.
{from the mouth of an Army E-8/ MSG/1SG}
markpud
Former Ascifi.com mod
Of course I have no actual military knowledge other than TV and films (always totally realistic, right??!)
But I feel that the regs aren't often followed strictly in the SGC, esp the way O'Neill talks to Hammond at times...
But it was one of the 1st episodes of SG-1 where they said that the remit of the SGC is to explore and make diplomatic contact with other worlds, where as previously it had been just military re-con and technology gathering...
That aside, the "Entity" was a hostile force entering the SGC, however provoked, and for once Jack was in the right to adopt the military stance... however there have been many other episodes where if they had not gone for diplomacy, they would have been in real trouble, "Tok'ra" for one...
But I feel that the regs aren't often followed strictly in the SGC, esp the way O'Neill talks to Hammond at times...
But it was one of the 1st episodes of SG-1 where they said that the remit of the SGC is to explore and make diplomatic contact with other worlds, where as previously it had been just military re-con and technology gathering...
That aside, the "Entity" was a hostile force entering the SGC, however provoked, and for once Jack was in the right to adopt the military stance... however there have been many other episodes where if they had not gone for diplomacy, they would have been in real trouble, "Tok'ra" for one...
Rowan
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The Team
Nope, if you do an injury list of SG-1 by the end of 4th season, I'm amazed any of them have a single functional brain cell just taking into account the ribbon device. Not counting what a zat has got to do your cardiac system. :{
Nope, if you do an injury list of SG-1 by the end of 4th season, I'm amazed any of them have a single functional brain cell just taking into account the ribbon device. Not counting what a zat has got to do your cardiac system. :{
very true, sometimes(ok lots of the time) they don't follow the military mindset...but there are times when it just doesn't work well that way. like all the aforementioned examples.
then again, though he was defying a direct order, jack's decision to try to blow up the gadmeer ship in scorched earth could be seen as the proper military action...then again, who knows if the rest of the planet would have been left habitable after the gadmeer started their terraforming and...face it what do you think the gadmeer response would have been had sam's bomb not destroyed the ship...and it is possible it wouldnt' have...not only would the enkaren have all died, so would have sg-1 and possibly ticked the gadmeer off against earth...in this case danny's solution turned out to be the best one.
as to jack's attitude, i've heard the air force advisors say it isn't out of line...that someone with his experience is given a bit of leeway...and that seems to be how hammond runs stuff...a very gentle hand on the reins.
then again, though he was defying a direct order, jack's decision to try to blow up the gadmeer ship in scorched earth could be seen as the proper military action...then again, who knows if the rest of the planet would have been left habitable after the gadmeer started their terraforming and...face it what do you think the gadmeer response would have been had sam's bomb not destroyed the ship...and it is possible it wouldnt' have...not only would the enkaren have all died, so would have sg-1 and possibly ticked the gadmeer off against earth...in this case danny's solution turned out to be the best one.
as to jack's attitude, i've heard the air force advisors say it isn't out of line...that someone with his experience is given a bit of leeway...and that seems to be how hammond runs stuff...a very gentle hand on the reins.
Rowan
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Leeway
I agree with the advisor [if we're discussing the gentleman who visits the set - Tom, I believe his name is]. With the type of missions any SG team is likely to encounter, you have to have a Team Leader who can think on his feet and a CO who'll let him. Flexability is everything.
I agree with the advisor [if we're discussing the gentleman who visits the set - Tom, I believe his name is]. With the type of missions any SG team is likely to encounter, you have to have a Team Leader who can think on his feet and a CO who'll let him. Flexability is everything.
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